Sorry, Alpha. I have read every word, and I still see no concrete proof. Just because you wrote it down, or you read it in a book, or it is an idea that makes sense to you, so be it! It proves nothing. It is just words with nothing concrete to back it up, just your own "faith" that it is true. I don't care about the evolution/creationism crap, as I think it is just that. People want to know where they came from, and any story is just as good as another. I guess I will find out when I die and stand before God. Then I will know.
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Where does everyone stand in regards to...
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Browse through this list a bit: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html
Which of these creatures are animals and which are humans? Are homo sapiens the only species in history qualifying as humans? If so, where exactly would the missing link be found if not in this list?
Which of these creatures are animals and which are humans? Are homo sapiens the only species in history qualifying as humans? If so, where exactly would the missing link be found if not in this list?
First off let me say this, when did i state my beliefs in this thread, you are all assuming what i believe, which you are all wrong about, but iwas just stating a counterpoint to your argument.
to those of you who keep saying creationism and evolution cant exists together why not, i mean creationism just says a higher being(lets not call it just God, cause there are polytheisistic religions) created teh universe, earth, and living creatures, it does not say that these creatures neverchanged. also you evolutionist only seem to attack the judeo-christian/islamic view of creation, what about the other creation theories.
the hominid argument is pretty weak in that most of these "species" are based on 2 to 3 incomplete skeletons, which could very easily just be exterme anomolies in the human form. also they are jumps from one to the other, there are no fossils of a sort of homo habilis and sorta homo erectus, it is either one or the other, no evidence for the slow graditual change.
and let me say this, its not that i dont believe in evolutoin at all i dont believe it is the orgin of life on this planet. I want to know where the evolutionists believe this first cell that all animals evolved from came from. How did this first cell get on planet earth. That has always been teh sticking point for me.
to those of you who keep saying creationism and evolution cant exists together why not, i mean creationism just says a higher being(lets not call it just God, cause there are polytheisistic religions) created teh universe, earth, and living creatures, it does not say that these creatures neverchanged. also you evolutionist only seem to attack the judeo-christian/islamic view of creation, what about the other creation theories.
the hominid argument is pretty weak in that most of these "species" are based on 2 to 3 incomplete skeletons, which could very easily just be exterme anomolies in the human form. also they are jumps from one to the other, there are no fossils of a sort of homo habilis and sorta homo erectus, it is either one or the other, no evidence for the slow graditual change.
and let me say this, its not that i dont believe in evolutoin at all i dont believe it is the orgin of life on this planet. I want to know where the evolutionists believe this first cell that all animals evolved from came from. How did this first cell get on planet earth. That has always been teh sticking point for me.
A) "Species" is just a label. There's variety between individuals of a species. A creature is considered a member of a new species when those differences are significant enough to warrant it. Humans are physically different now than they were 100,000 years ago. There's no reason to name a new species for every century of our development provided we're mostly unchanged, so the creatures in that rough time frame are called homo sapiens. There are no jumps from one to another species... only jumps in labels applied to them.
B) Many of the timeframes listed for when those species existed not only connect... they overlap... often for up to a million years. How can that possibly not allow for enough time between species for the gradual changes from one to another? A million years is an easy number to say, but remember that's about 10x as long as the entirety of human history.
C) Evolution doesn't require the parent species to die out. In fact it would be pretty strange if a whole species went extinct suddenly just because another had emerged. The new species may have had traits more desirable to the environment they were in, but that doesn't mean the entire population of the parent species was immediately killed by or even lived exclusively in that region.
B) Many of the timeframes listed for when those species existed not only connect... they overlap... often for up to a million years. How can that possibly not allow for enough time between species for the gradual changes from one to another? A million years is an easy number to say, but remember that's about 10x as long as the entirety of human history.
C) Evolution doesn't require the parent species to die out. In fact it would be pretty strange if a whole species went extinct suddenly just because another had emerged. The new species may have had traits more desirable to the environment they were in, but that doesn't mean the entire population of the parent species was immediately killed by or even lived exclusively in that region.
Also, the development of life on earth didn't have to start with a cell. Merely something like a proteinoid.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Something I find fascinating is the concept of eternality. Trying to fathom God's "always will be" isn't too difficult. It's the "always has been" that I find challenging. I know that's a bit of a tangent from what I am quoting, but it reminded me of it.[b said:
Rose: You remember Donna Reed? I used to watch the reruns of her show. Then there's, "It's A Wonderful Life": "Buffalo girls wontcha come out tonight, come out tonight..." Seriously, I am glad that He came to your heart. "(S)he who has ears to hear..." Obviously, you heard!
Luis: Hay fever - that wonderful reaction your body has to foreign airborne particles that IT thinks is harmful. Thus, profuse, annoying sneezing!
I only saw this post now. So why isn't there any creature that has features of both plants and animals or between humans and animals? Surely now that we have "evolved" into creatures more "fit" than any other organism on earth, plants and animals that we don't actually raise will slowly die off, and we will gain the ability to eat rocks...
Peter
Peter
atoms came together and formed RNA like molecules (they where not living) all they could do was copy themselves (the copying process was sort of like a "reaction", if they where in the right conditions (correct temperature, pH etc) they copied themselves. These RNA molecules evolved to be more complex and came bacteria (the first cells).[b said:
Anything else?
i would say to believe that these random atoms in a sterile enviroment coming to together to form well first amino acids then more complex protien strands takes as much faith as believe that a higher power created it. I mean conditions would have to be perfect for that to happen and still what would cause the atoms to want to for these primitive amino acids and protien strands.
oh and for my statement about the hominids, i know they overlap in time but there are no transitional specimens between the differnt speices which you would expect to see especally during the time peroid that they overlaped, instead one of the hominids always seems to outlast the other.
oh and for my statement about the hominids, i know they overlap in time but there are no transitional specimens between the differnt speices which you would expect to see especally during the time peroid that they overlaped, instead one of the hominids always seems to outlast the other.
first of all, humans ARE animals.[b said:
secondly, there are creatures that are both fungus and animal like, and others that are algae and animal like.
For example... euglenas are both animal and plant like. They can eat by endocytosis or they can photosynthesize. They can also move around like animals and yet they are green like plants.
There are also fungus-like protists (slime molds) that move around but reproduce by spores and stuff.
and there are animal-like protists (protozoans) which only have a single cell and act more like animals.
They're a pain for taxonomists to categorize. Some people group them as plants, others as animals, others as fungus, etc...
Same with the prehistoric humans. Some people consider homo erectus a human, and others consider it an ape. How much more "missing link" do you want?
There are organisms that eat rocks by the way... but you can't expect animals to suddenly evolve like that. This is science, not science fiction. You will never have a turtle suddenly be born with wings, able to eat radioactive waste, and breathe without air.
we're talking about the REAL world here people! Not every animal is fossilized and species don't just evolve into superman in two days!!
it's been proven that the conditions exist.[b said:
Don't you know about that scientist that replicated the earth's environment a long long long time ago and then replicated lightning and created amino acids?
You think that's only possible in a lab? well, many meteors that have come from space have amino acids in them.
Thats not true. There was an experiment conducted where a man recreated conditions as they where when the earth was a newborn. All the correct chemicals where put into a controlled environment, the process was catalyzed and the end result was RNA, you calling this guy god?[b said:
darn you luis.. you posted first
oh please. You can go out and touch fossils (I've seen and touched them). You can even just look at your own body and animals outside and see vestigial/homologous/analogous structures.[b said:
Goosebumps, the muscles that allow you to wiggle your ears, body hair (some of it does have a purpuse but why do we have body hair on our little toe?)
You can buy a chicken wing and see the vestigial claw there, You can compare the bodies of other organisms and you will see how they have the same bones, just the fact that you can do taxonomy shows how they evolved. You can't categorize rocks by kingdom phylum class order family genus species because they do not evolve!
You can also see euglenia with a microscope (I've seen them... I have a microscope), you can see slime molds (I tried to keep one but it died
) in compost piles, you just have to LOOK.hmmm..[b said:
dont really know what you are talking about, but I can answer some of it..
there are creatures that have both animal and plant characteristics..they still exist today.
single cell organisms that are essentially "animals", and can move freely, but also contain chloroplasts and make some of their energy from sunlight!
half animal, half plant..
http://encarta.msn.com/media_461517772/Dinoflagellate.html
and as for "between animals and humans" there are untold thousands of animals that are between animals and humans..
millions probably..
we have found fossils of hundreds of them.
they are everywhere..
I really dont understand how people can say there are "none"..
the fossil record is full of them..
I have no clue what are trying to say with the second half of your post..
Scot
and yet... do you have ANY proof ANYTHING like we have for evolution? can you go out and ask god if he created the animals how they are? no. That is why evoluton is scientific. Because you DO have proof and you can go out and touch/experiment with it. You can drasticaly change species (even make subspecies in just a couple thosuand years) like cultivars of plants and varieties and you can experiment with bacteria and fruit flies.
If you just want to say that you believe the bible and that's why you don't believe in evolution then fine but please don't go around saying there is no proof or saying things like saying that there are gaps in the fossil record because OF COURSE there will be! not all organisms fossilize and we haven't found all the fossils you know. Thousands of fossils and new species are found every day.
Also what a coincidence that MOST organisms are like that! it's not just humans that we can trace, it's horses and whales and many others!
I'm sure it's also a geologic process that makes fossils too. or maybe it's the devil. Yes... that's it...
What a coincidence those anomolies go in order from the apes to the humans... and what a coincidence that those anomolies don't happen today.[b said:
Also what a coincidence that MOST organisms are like that! it's not just humans that we can trace, it's horses and whales and many others!
I'm sure it's also a geologic process that makes fossils too. or maybe it's the devil. Yes... that's it...
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