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Where does everyone stand in regards to...

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  • #401
If you're not going to contribute to this thread (Ie. give us reasons to not believe evolution or reasons to believe creationism, etc) and only come to say things like that, please just don't say anything because you're not acomplishing anything.
I believe you're the one who said opinions don't matter? well then if they don't matter stop posting them and making me and others angry.
 
  • #402
Proof of what, Alpha? I haven't said anything that requires proof. You (last I checked) were trying to argue in favor of evolution, and I say prove it. Still no proof. Vestigal limbs? How would you know? How would I know? I wasn't there so have no way of knowing. Bones in the rocks mean fossils. An apparent "limb" may not have been that at all, but something all together different that we have no real knowledge of, and a mind blower if we found out it was for something all together different. Yes, Alpha, it is all speculation, but interesting nonetheless. I am not convinced, but I do like your passion for the subject, and your reasoning. keep it up. i will read it until convinced. And Alpha, it isn't personal at all, so please don't take it that way. I am liking this thread. Thought provoking whether you convince me or not.
 
  • #403
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,12:43)]Still no proof. I am waiting.
We've given you more "proof" for the evolution theory than can ever be given to back up that there is a god and that he created the universe.
 
  • #404
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,12:43)]God knows, we don't. We speculate and search, but it is still just ideas and speculation.
In order to belive that "god knows, we don't" we must first establish that there is a god, since we are trying to be logical here, and not belive things just because they were writen 2000 years ago by a bunch of people who claim god made them do it.
 
  • #405
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:08)]Proof of what, Alpha? I haven't said anything that requires proof. You (last I checked) were trying to argue in favor of evolution, and I say prove it. Still no proof. Vestigal limbs? How would you know? How would I know? I wasn't there so have no way of knowing. Bones in the rocks mean fossils. An apparent "limb" may not have been that at all, but something all together different that we have no real knowledge of, and a mind blower if we found out it was for something all together different. Yes, Alpha, it is all speculation, but interesting nonetheless. I am not convinced, but I do like your passion for the subject, and your reasoning. keep it up. i will read it until convinced. And Alpha, it isn't personal at all, so please don't take it that way. I am liking this thread. Thought provoking whether you convince me or not.
Then YOU give US proof that god created the universe.
We are giving you proof, all you do is call it rubbish, and you havnt given us ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE that god created the universe.
And its not speculation, sounds to me like your precious bible is speculation.
It could hvae been written by maniacs for all you know.
 
  • #406
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,12:43)]The Bible was written by man, and therefore unacceptable to the scientist? Well, who wrote their work? God? I don't think so. Therefore, their work should be unacceptable to me?
No there is a huge difference. The bible was written by man but it implies that some "outter being" with no beginning or end created everything, that you can't see or touch, but you just have to have "FAITH" that he's there. Evolution theory was written by man but everything written you can go out and prove yourself if you feel like it. The proof is here, on earth. No one is telling us to have "faith" about everything.
 
  • #407
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]. Vestigal limbs? How would you know? How would I know? I wasn't there so have no way of knowing
what do you mean how would I know? wiggle your ears (you can learn... I did), when you get goose bumps, wisdom teeth, etc. You can see it. You ARE here.
You can go buy a chicken wing and see a claw on it, you ARE there, you DO know they exist, you DO have a way of knowledge, and logical thinking tells you that there is no use for them right now (in fact, some vestigial structures like wisdom teeth are BAD... just like the female spotted hyenas pseudomale reproductive organ ... can I say that here? lol)
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Bones in the rocks mean fossils. An apparent "limb" may not have been that at all, but something all together different that we have no real knowledge of, and a mind blower if we found out it was for something all together different
oh c'mon. Do you REALLY think that fossils could possibly happen like that? first of all we have zero evidence of ANYTHING that could produce anything like fossils (besides organisms)
Secondly, what a coincidence they have analogous parts to today's organisms. What a coincidence they have tibias and femurs and skulls EXACTLY how they should. You don't find a skull ATTACHED to wings or femurs or other body parts that you wodn't think of they being attached.
Thirdly it's not just one fossil of a single species, it's MANY fossils of a single species.

there is NO WAY that fossils can be natural geologic processes that aren't what fossils are thought to be.
Next you'll be saying that they were planted there by the devil. (even that explanation is way more feasible.)
 
  • #408
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:08)]Still no proof. Vestigal limbs? How would you know? How would I know?
Maybe you could figure that one out on your own. Let me start you off. If "god" created us then why would he give us things that we don't need and don't use? You saying "we might need them" or "how do you know we don't need them" or (this ones great) "how would you KNOW we don't need them" aren't options, and won't answer the question.
 
  • #409
even certain things like childbirth being so painful and the fact that we have lower back pain testifies that we are not in god's image. If we are, then god does not have a perfect image.
http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm take a look at that
and especially this one http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm
from whales and snakes having pelvises to dandelions having completely useless flowers and pollen to beetles that have perfectly formed hindwings but the upperwings can't open to wisdom teeth to ostriches having wings and hollow bones to the malaria parasite having chloroplasts to cave salamanders and fish having eyes but not being able to use them,
yes... it's all "speculation"
 
  • #410
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Capslock,

Other schools are teaching things another theory.  What's the diff?

Peter

Peter,
The difference is that scientific theories are developed over the years based on mountains of evidence, testable and falsifiable hypotheses, and are constantly scrutinized and honed for accuracy. In this sense, the ID and creationist proposals are not even "theories" in the same way as scientific theories are. We are doing a grave disservice to our young people by teaching that non-scientific theories are equally valid as scientific ones, and by blurring the distinction between the two.

Furthermore, explicitly theistic theories like creationism run afoul of the Constitution in that they constitute a deliberate endorsement of Christianity by the government. Rest assured, when the government gets involved in pushing a religion, it won't be pretty. And in all likelihood, it won't be YOUR version of Christianity either. Leave that to parents and churches!

Bugweed: I understand your point about taking scientists as "gospel truth." We shouldn't. But evolution is not mere speculation and ideas. It's observable genetic mutation, it's mountains of fossils dated and noted for location. It's based on real, observeable genetic phenomena that occurs constantly in labs and in nature. It's not speculation at all. And each evolutionary discovery is falsifiable by new discoveries and data. This is fundamentally different from theistic stories of creation.

Capslock
 
  • #411
Religion isn't something that should run the world or even be considered as something to run your life by. Common sense would tell people not to belive there is something out there rulling us and who created us but we can't see or actually prove he's there. Common sense is becoming a little less common.
 
  • #412
Heck... even genetic diseases!
Why would god put diseases in our genes? he sure is one fair god isn't he? Is it to punish people? or did the devil put them there?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Common sense is becoming a little less common.
HEY! first I steal it from a radio show, then you steal it from me :p
it goes "is it just me or is common sense becoming all too uncommon?"
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] Think of a good "creationary" explanation for those sudden jerks, preferably better than "God made us that way and He moves in mysterious ways."
lol...
 
  • #413
Laughable. I do not need to prove what I believe because I am not trying to convince you of anything. I believe what I believe, and will not cram it down your throats. I never said I believe creationism. I never said I believe evolution. But your proof is no different than any other writings I have read, and no clear cut, concrete proof is out there. You can say what you want, and I will listen. But I do not have to accept that which is just a theory. You said fact, but still called it a theory. And that is what it is---theory. Why you are pis-ed off, I do not know. Just because I do not agree?? That doesn't say a lot about your argument. Personally, I do not care if you believe in God or not. That is your thing, needing proof He exists, not mine. Starman is just hateful in general, and I don't mind that either. His problem, not mine. But, to get personal is unnecessary. I do not think you are very convincing, but I like the spark it has given the forums, and some of the ideas you have shared. Too bad this means so much to you guys that you have to get mean about it. I want proof and truth, and both are hard enough to come up with, no matter what the subject.
 
  • #415
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]But your proof is no different than any other writings I have read, and no clear cut, concrete proof is out there. You can say what you want, and I will listen. But I do not have to accept that which is just a theory.
Yeah because you haven't found something that agrees with you yet, that doesn't mean its not concrete. If anything isn't concrete its the bible.
 
  • #416
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]Why you are pis-ed off, I do not know. Just because I do not agree?? That doesn't say a lot about your argument.
Who's pissed?
 
  • #417
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You said fact, but still called it a theory. And that is what it is---theory. Why you are pis-ed off, I do not know. Just because I do not agree??
and scientific theories can be both facts and theories. Just like I've explained many times before (can I ask if you have alzheimer's or something?)
I'm pissed off because what your saying makes no sense. I'm not pissed off at anyone here (well... not nearly as much :p) because they don't go around implying fossils are just freaks of geology and that ALL the proof of evolution (even SEEING IT IN PROCESS) is "speculation" and that we have no proof. THAT is what pisses me off so much.
 
  • #418
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]Starman is just hateful in general, and I don't mind that either. His problem, not mine.
LOL
 
  • #419
Not to mention you don't even point out what is wrong with evolution and instead resort to implying fossils are just freaks of geology. AND you don't give us any proof of anything besides evolution.
 
  • #420
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]But, to get personal is unnecessary.
Why are you implying that we are getting personal? I know that i'm not.
 
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