Where does everyone stand in regards to...

[Bugweed]

At last! Perfect Sense!!!!!!!

 

[Wesley]

Quote[/b] ]umm... I'm not sure if this qualifies as homologous structures but I'll throw it in anyway
Most mammals.. and I THINK birds too... (except for manatees which I believe have 8?) have exactly 7 neck vertebrae. From little tiny bee bats to giraffes (sp? that looks horrible!) ALL have 7 neck nertebrae.
also every single mammal that we know of has hairs. No other group of anything has hairs like mammals (how they grow from the skin, made of keratin, etc). From humans to whales to guineapigs to bats, to whatever.
No mammal has feathers either, and unless you count pangolin's scales (which are not like reptile scales which are their skin... pangolins have scales growing ON the skin) no mammal has scales either.
also no mammal has multiple rows of teeth (one behind the other) like some reptiles and fish have,...
and I'm getting off track... so I'll skip to analogous structures. analogous structures evolved from different "kinds" of organism to suit the same environment (homologous structures evolved from the same "kinds" of organism to suit different environments).
For example fins. Fish fins (sharks, etc) and whale fins look alike but they are made differently. You will not find hand bones inside fishes.
bat wings, bird wings, and insect wings are all for flying but they're all different.
feathers and hair (which evolved from scales... all made of keratin, etc) I guess would sort of maybe be analogous structures because they serve the same functions (keep warm, keep water out, etc) but are different.
... ok, enough!

Until you show me WHY that proves evolution, that makes me lean toward creationism. Didn't mammal evolve from fish or something... I've heard that humans have evolved from numerous things(I don't remember what they were but it still makes me lean more toward creationism). I mean if mammals evolved from another creature(ae reptiles, aren't they the ones that are like millions or is it billions of years old?), wouldn't one or something still have even one scale(dry... fish have scales but they lean toward being "slimy") or something that ONLY reptiles have? Please explain?

I'm getting lost but hey it's helped me "trust" creationism more.

 

[Amateur_Expert]

I know that modern day creationists might understand the bible how it is presented but few understand or even know of its biased past.

 

[Finch]

Quote[/b] ]Most mammals.. and I THINK birds too... (except for manatees which I believe have 8?) have exactly 7 neck vertebrae. From little tiny bee bats to giraffes (sp? that looks horrible!) ALL have 7 neck nertebrae.
also every single mammal that we know of has hairs

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the broadbill family of birds from the aso-pacific islands have 2 extra neck vertebrates

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]Until you show me WHY that proves evolution, that makes me lean toward creationism.  Didn't mammal evolve from fish or something... I've heard that humans have evolved from numerous things(I don't remember what they were but it still makes me lean more toward creationism).  I mean if mammals evolved from another creature(ae reptiles, aren't they the ones that are like millions or is it billions of years old?), wouldn't one or something still have even one scale(dry... fish have scales but they lean toward being "slimy") or something that ONLY reptiles have?  Please explain? I'm getting lost but hey it's helped me "trust" creationism more.

here's how the evidence says it happened.
(do you want the whole thing from bacteria? that takes more explaining)
first there were fish. Those fish then became amphibians. amphibians then became reptiles. Reptiles then branched to both birds (most bird feet except for owls have scales... and feathers are made out of the same material as scales.. and some birds like hoatzins and ostriches, emus, chickens, etc. have claws on their wings) and mammals (again, hair is made out of the same material scales are made out of, etc)
That proves evolution because you can see how they all became from a common ancestor. For example whales could have fins with spikes (or rays or whatever you call them...) like fish have, but instead they have "hands". There are carpals and metacarpals and phalangees (sp? looks horrible too) just like other mammals have.
humans are apes. apes came from primates...

Quote[/b] ]the broadbill family of birds from the aso-pacific islands have 2 extra neck vertebrates

ah ok thanks!

 

[Amateur_Expert]

"every faith in the world is based on fabrication. That is the definition of faith - the acceptance of that which we imagine to be true, that which we cannot prove. Every religion describes God through metaphor, allegory, and exaggeration, from the early Egyptians through modern Sunday school. Metaphors are a way to help our minds process the unprocessible. The problems arise when we begin to believe literally in our own metaphors"

 

[Finch]

Quote[/b] ]
Until you show me WHY that proves evolution, that makes me lean toward creationism. Didn't mammal evolve from fish or something... I've heard that humans have evolved from numerous things(I don't remember what they were but it still makes me lean more toward creationism). I mean if mammals evolved from another creature(ae reptiles, aren't they the ones that are like millions or is it billions of years old?), wouldn't one or something still have even one scale(dry... fish have scales but they lean toward being "slimy") or something that ONLY reptiles have? Please explain? I'm getting lost but hey it's helped me "trust" creationism more.

i dunno where you heard that but fish<anphibians<reptiles, birds and mammals split from reptiles. in effect, hair and feathers were present in the (different) ancestor groups of both mammals and birds. The mammal-like reptiles had something similar to hair (modified scale) and some dinos, from wich birds came from, had feathers. t-rex may have even had feathers when young. feathers and hair are the traits of birds and mammals today because the preceeding ancestors with those qualities proved less adaptable and died out

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]the broadbill family of birds from the aso-pacific islands have 2 extra neck vertebrates

and the fact that you can say the FAMILY of birds (not in different families... but the whole entire family of those birds... and no other family[?]) has 2 extra neck vertebrae also points to common ancestors.

 

[Wesley]

so ALL the miracles that have been performed throughout history would be magic? Cause since faith is believing in something that is not there, all those who claim to do it in the name of (name). They are all fakes? Wow... that's really sad, I really like Jesus. But since He was God and God is a fabrication, he was not there and all the people that claimed He was God and saw Him. They were either raving lunatics or liars. Hmm my entire world has been shattered.

Wouldn't it be sad if I really believed that and you actually did that to me? LOL but really examine my statement above. Hmm I'm getting to where I hate the word metaphor LOL

 

[FlytrapGurl]

12 new pages in 2 days?!!!!!!! I give up.

 

[Amateur_Expert]

Quote[/b] (Wesley @ Jan. 03 2005,8:37)]so ALL the miracles that have been performed throughout history would be magic?

All the alledged miracles. There is alot about the bible and religion that is not know.

 

[Wesley]

Quote[/b] ] i dunno where you heard that but fish<anphibians<reptiles, birds and mammals split from reptiles.

Well, I've heard it from many different places(a couple mueseums(sp) and so forth). I guess that since the theory is an everchanging theory(it seems all theories/laws/etc are ever changing now adays), it has changed over the years. But anyway, on with the discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~Wes~

 

[Amateur_Expert]

Quote[/b] (Wesley @ Jan. 03 2005,8:37)]Cause since faith is believing in something that is not there, all those who claim to do it in the name of (name). They are all fakes? Wow... that's really sad, I really like Jesus.

Remember the part of the quote that says you shouldn't belive literally in metaphors? The whole bible could be a metaphor for something mankind hasn't yet figure out yet. Or could be much more simpler than its through out to be.

 

[Amateur_Expert]

Quote[/b] (Wesley @ Jan. 03 2005,8:37)]But since He was God and God is a fabrication, he was not there and all the people that claimed He was God and saw Him.

Jesus isn't god, he is the son of god. Have you ever heard of Mary Magdalene?

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]All people reject the Gods of other cultures to a more or lesser degree. Other cultures reject ours in similar fashion. Very easy to write this, and the logic is profound in its straightforwardness, but few religious peoples of any culture can grasp it. And nearly all wars have depended on human non-ability to appreciate such a simple concept.

Quote[/b] ]so ALL the miracles that have been performed throughout history would be magic?

people from every other religion claim that their prophets or shamans or whatever it is preform miracles.
or are all those "miracles" work from the devil and only your "miracles" are true miracles?

Quote[/b] ]Well, I've heard it from many different places(a couple mueseums(sp) and so forth). I guess that since the theory is an everchanging theory(it seems all theories/laws/etc are ever changing now adays), it has changed over the years. But anyway, on with the discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in all my life I had never heard that mammals came from fish.

 

[Amateur_Expert]

Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 03 2005,8:44)]Have you ever heard of Mary Magdalene?

and have you taken a really close look at leornardo da vinci's "the last supper"?

 

[Finch]

Quote[/b] ]Quote  
the broadbill family of birds from the aso-pacific islands  have 2 extra neck vertebrates  

and the fact that you can say the FAMILY of birds (not in different families... but the whole entire family of those birds... and no other family[?]) has 2 extra neck vertebrae also points to common ancestors.

ah some corrections and elaborations on my part.

Broadbills are considerd the most primitive family in the order passerifomres, just just barely over the dividing line between passerines and non-passerines. all  passerines (exept broadbills)hav3 14 neck vertebra, and i dunno about other birds, and yes, the 2 extra neck vertebra is only in that family of broadbills, witch is... odd. the family has not really diversified, witch is in my point of vew a shabe because they are lovely, if rather clumsy in hawking for insects inlike the more advanced species.

cuute

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ] 14 neck vertebra

wow. They must be tiny!
It still points to common ancestors though.

 

[Finch]

i dunno how those shortneck broadbills fit 16 vertebra in

 

[Finch]

anyway, back to evolution