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A man-made tsunami

  • #41
So Scot, whether or not Bush lied, do you think he encouraged an informed and open debate before the invasion? Or does now? As far as I'm concerned, that's what America's all about.


not looking to start an argument Bruce but on the no debate before, thats just a bad idea. let the "enemy" know your coming before the attack? we would have wound up loosing more troops than we have already. i realise there was some warning before the invasion but an open disscution drawn out for weeks before hand would be bad policy. as was stated before England, France, Germany and the US all thought he had WMD before the attack(im still not convinced there wasnt any but freely admit i have seen no proof either way). as to a debate now, i really dont have an answer for yah. maybe because its not really over yet or who knows why not.
 
  • #42
I'm not saying to discuss the details of invasion planning, but the reason for it. The US invasion came as a surprise to no one. The timing and manner of it was news, but not the attack itself.
 
  • #43
i see your point, had i actually thought about your post more i prolly wouldnt have even responded. sorry, been a couple long days at work with short nights................
 
  • #44
I think a few people have still missed my last post. Bush did not lie in telling the country that Iraq had WMD, he acted on credible information given to him from the CIA and many other nations. Lieing is providing information as fact that you know or have reason to believe is false. Not what happpened.
 
  • #45
Everyone makes mistakes such as what the CIA did, in thinking there were indeed WMD. Whether or not it was true that is one thing we won't know for sure, without proof, they weren't moved, dismantled or whatever else. Bottom line is, Saddam was an evil man, who did evil things, at least we don't kill our own people and try to have an authoritarian government....although it seems to be going that way nowadays.

Back on the topic earlier about N. korea and Nuclear weapons, I think Bush is afraid to act against them, trying more to appease them than antagonize them. Of course, maybe they talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
 
  • #46
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yes it has been shown that so far we have not found any 'new' WMD's.
they already gave up looking.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Nice REWRITING of History there..
impressive, yet pathetic..
typical of liberal distortions..
nice stereotyping and mud slinging.
typical of conservative fools... how pathetic
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That Hitler/Bush statement is in the same league as the ideas of the KKK and modern NAzi/skinheads..
in this modern world of tolerance, such views of hatred should never be allowed to be spoken!
and I bet those "liberals" are the ones to blame!
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]now, lets see how long it takes for my posts to be heavily edited or deleted outright..and if herenorthere's post remains untouched..
typical conservative paranoia and conspiracy theories.
oh the "liberal media" is out to get you! and those "liberals" are taking the whole world! those stupid, idiots without morals they call liberals.

I am sick and tired of it. Talk about "this modern world of tolerance".

those darned liberals...
 
  • #47
funny how "conservatives" with all their "morals" and crap are the ones that get into wars, tourture people, etc...
want to get into stereotypes and name calling? two can play that game.
(by the way... I'm just using this as an example. I don't believe in stereotyping and name calling but I'm sick of it)
 
  • #48
That's the problem with the world. Not people wanting to dodge the draft, not people thinking it was right or wrong to go to war with iraq, not people being against or for abortion, It is the above.
 
  • #49
Bush did lie. He called Iraq an imminent threat, when he knew they weren't. He said they had unmanned aircraft and they didn't. He said they had aluminum tubes ONLY for use in a reactor, but they knew that was false. He spread false stories of Nigerian uranium.

He sent Powell up in front of the UN with pictures and had him say we KNEW these were mobile weapons labs, when we didn't have that knowledge.

By assigning certainty to these claims, when his own intelligence said the information was sketchy, he deliberately misled the country. There was no "mistake" involved. When every "mistake" favors the aministration, you begin to understand that it's deliberate.

Capslock
 
  • #50
ignorance is bliss, huh scot?
open your eyes, it's all around you.
 
  • #51
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Finch @ Jan. 11 2005,9:55)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Wow I bet you also believe that Stalin had nothing to do with Hitler


Stalin and hitler were bitter enemies in WWII and stalin fought on the allied side against hitler
But they did make a deal with eachother, and Russia ended up getting a part of (Poland?). But Russia later allied with the... uh... allies, and Hitler invaded Russia, particulary Stalingrad... I think he did it too anger Stalin
laugh.gif
 
  • #52
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 12 2005,2:06)]ignorance is bliss, huh scot?
open your eyes, it's all around you.
yeah I know..
its all over this thread..and the evolution thread..
its sad..we try to educate, but some people refuse to remove their blinders..
not much you can do except continue to point out the ignorance when you see it..
if you can get through to just one person its worth it..
Scot
 
  • #53
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]if you can get through to just one person its worth it..
unless in the process you make other people more convinced what they already believe and that makes them go and "get through" to more people.
 
  • #54
So I just noticed on the national news... They've declared the search for WMDs over (they didn't find any)... So I'm curious, why did Bush send other peoples children to die?
 
  • #55
alpha I think calling conservatives fool might be a little rough and foolish. No one besides yourself was stating anything about liberals and conservatives, they say most people get defensive when they are shown to be wrong. And it doesnt take a genius to realize that atleast in this forum the 'liberal' beliefs are in the majority. Maybe next time you hop into a conversation it would be wise to not be so emotional as schoalty already stated and in turn your statements may come across slightly less ignorant.

Capslock, how can you possibly say that Bush knew Iraq wasnt an immenant threat, how can you possibly know that?  As I said earlier he was advised from many sources and acted in the best interest of our country. Every one thought Iraq was an immenant threat that is the reason both the Senate and the House voted to go to war againts Iraq. Even Kerry voted 'yes' on that one. What would Bush have to gain by going to war with a country w/o credibal evidence expecially with an election coming up. It just doesnt add up.

Kahnli - Bush sent no ones child do die, that statement is beyond false.  Our military is 100% volunteer, every soldier signed up knowing what he would be doing, and supports there commander in chief.  They declared that they areas they are able to search for WMD that they are done, there are still areas where inspectors cannot get to because of the fighting.

AE - nice sound bite I guess, but you might be taken more serious if you can back up your reasons for your statements rather then just firing off.
 
  • #56
[b said:
Quote[/b] (wolf9striker @ Jan. 12 2005,11:14)]AE - nice sound bite I guess, but you might be taken more serious if you can back up your reasons for your statements rather then just firing off.
You're right... but it'll just turn into an argument for which i have no time for. I don't care to be taken seriously. It was just my 2 cents.
 
  • #58
I do not believe that George Bush lied when he stated Iraq had WMD’s.  He made his decision based on erroneous information presented to him by our own inept CIA.  This information was confirmed by the equally inept intelligence services of Britain, France and Russia in particular and Canada to a lesser extent. The Israelis also confirmed the info, but out of self-interest, not poor intelligence gathering and analysis.

An example of how undisciplined our guys can be:
I spent a lot of time in Central and South America from 1975 to the early 90’s.   The latter time period was during the Nicaraguan/Contra conflict and every major country in the world had operatives in the area.  Gathering information about anyone was very simple…frequent a number of popular bars in a particular city, tip well, get to know the bartenders and the bar girls, point out a guy I was curious about and ask what they knew about him.  They knew everything.  In one month I could recognize virtually every one of the so-called “spooks”.   Everyone knew who everyone else was…no one cared.  They spent more time boozing and chasing girls than they did working.

Where our guys particularly inept?  No!  The Russians, Germans and French were even worse.  However, the Canadians were the absolute worst.  In fact one of them, in an effort to court favor with a particularly attractive young lady, offered to get her a Canadian passport so she could enter the U.S. legally…she was my girlfriend. I believe he was transferred to Northern Manitoba.  
smilie4.gif


The Cubans blended in quite well.   The Israelis were good.

I wish to acknowledge that the best of the best were our own DEA Agents.   They were professionals.  They were good…very, very good.

No!  George Bush did not lie.  He was misled by poor information from a number of sources.  Should he have checked that information out more thoroughly?  Yes.

I am amazed at how quickly the liberals are to accuse Bush of lying when they do not have all of the facts but conveniently forget that Bill Clinton admitted that he lied to the American public about his dalliance (Is that politically correct enough?) with Monica.
 
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