What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Wal-mart vs. the pyramids

Not destruction just money... but if they destroy the world and get there money then they are happy... actaully no they aren't they'll just want more money. This world revolves around money, and I to think I had always thought it was magnetism.....
 
sad just sad thats all i have to say.

and as an archaeologist let me say this once its out of the ground its gone, nothing new can be learned from it, in essence the knowledge that it could have revealed is lost forever. This, along with just about everything else wal-mart stands for, are the reasons that i will never shop there.
 
this is old news, brooke last year
 
That sucks... of all the stores, it has to be Wal-Mart, too...
I don't understand what they mean by 'pyramid Wal-Mart,' though. Are they referring to the site of the store, or are they building it to look like a pyramid? That would be unbelievably tasteless.
~Joe
 
Yeah, this is old news. Heard this on The Daily Show last year. That's right, that's where I get my news. And I take enormous pride in that fact.

At the risk of being shot....... I like WalMart.
 
I won't shoot you flytrapgurl, I think wally world get's a bad rap just like Microsoft, sure, both companies make bad decisions from time to time, but they exist for a reason, to make money, and as corporate power houses go, they are pretty low on the scale of bad companies, I can think of far worse (have worked for some.)

I am not defending their actions in MC, or debating the employment figures, just giving my 2 cents (and definatley not looking for an argument!)
 
For FTG and RP,

thousands of jobs have been lost here in Rochester as a direct result of Walmart.
all those American jobs are now held by Chinese workers making pennies an hour.
because Kodak cant afford to build single use cameras in America for the prices Walmart demands..
so manufacturing HAS to go to China to give Walmart what it wants..
for the company, its "move to China" or lose walmart's business completly..so the Company keeps some profit by moving to china, (as opposed to nothing if not going to China), so on the corporate level it "makes sense"..the shareholders stay happy for a few more years..but at the expense of thousands of american jobs..
the same thing is happening to countless other companys and jobs..

Walmart basically killed the company Rubbermaid.
it was a well-known, quality American brand, products made in America by American workers..now the whole company's production is moving to China..because they cant sell to Walmart at the prices Walmart demands and still pay American wages..
Rubbermaid will still exist..but all its employess will be Chinese.

Walmart demands that our jobs go to China...because they demand that everyone sell products to them at low prices..
on the corporate level, its "move to China or die"..

you can love Walmart as long as your job is still here..
but you wont be able to shop there anymore once you are unemployed because Walmart moved your job to China..

hundreds of small towns across America have been agressively fighting to keep Walmart OUT of their towns!!
why would they do that if walmart was such a bonus??
because they know Walmart puts every other small buisiness OUT of buisness..
sure, it "creates jobs"..but it creates less jobs than it destroys, and the jobs it does create are minimum wage with no benefits..


http://www.pacificviews.org/weblog/archives/000714.html



http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/010705Wilson/010705wilson.html


http://www.rlnn.com/ArtDec04/WalMartAmerica.html


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17647


http://fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html


and on and on and on...there are thousands of reports like those..im not making this stuff up.
I personally know dozens of people who are now unemployed because of Walmart..some have found new jobs, many havent..
most have had to uproot their families and move somewhere else in search of jobs, and usually for jobs making far less money, and less (or no) benefits than before..
I havent set foot in a Walmart in 5 years..and never will again.
Scot
 
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0218-10.htm

an article called "the race to the bottom"

Ditto to what Scottychaos said, our town has basically been ruined by big box stores, our downtown is pretty much just boarded-up stores, and the city council has basically given up on maintaining our infrastructure in favour of developing outlying areas where huge parking lots are more feasible
It's not just Wal-mart, but still, it spells a lower quality of life for everyone.

F'rinstance, just a week or two ago the protections for the textile industry limiting imports from China to a certain percentage were lifted... this will bankrupt the already bottomed-out economies of countries like Haiti (which certain North American countries set up to be a textil-based sweat-shop already) and will no doubt have a huge impact on the already ballooning trade deficit now enjoyed by North America

And Scotty, I hate to set foot in Walmart, but on rare occasions I sort of have to (most local businesses are gone and I don't drive a car, and since our area is one big stupid sprawl I sometimes don't have a choice) But a good strategy to "rage against the machine" is to only buy loss-leaders....

And no I'm not a massacheusetts liberal, I'm more of a communist
biggrin.gif
(you know us Canadians)
 
  • #10
oh a good debate..

US companies have been shifting production jobs overseas for many years, not just for walmart's sake. Walmart may have increased the rate but it is not rocket science that less production cost = higher profits. I would even argue that walmart at least passes on a large portion of the reduced production cost to the consumer. So yes it stings when lots of production jobs are lost here but on the upside consumers pay a lot less for many items. Which keeps more cash in their pockets to use for other endevours, boosting other aspects of the US economy.

Nothing is simple black and white.
Tony
 
  • #11
So am I supposed to blame walmart when My IT position get's outsourced to some kid out of bombay? I think not, I have had 2 positions outsourced to foriegn labour in the last five years, do I blame the companies that I worked for it? no, they have to stay competitive. We live in a capitalist society, and like it or not, companies will do whatever they can to stay afloat and provide for not only their employees, but certainly the silk lined pockets of their shareholders.

I never said I loved walmart, I said I think it gets a bad rep, and admitted, that like all companies it makes bad decisions. News Flash, I try not to shop at walmart, but for different reasons, (such as shopping there for my wifes office at 11PM coming out with a 2,000$ receipt and having every bag searched by a rude employee searching for 20 dollar day planner that didn't get it's RF tag turned off at purchase.)

I have been affected first hand by outsourcing, what did I do? I studied, boned up my skills, widened my job search and continued being employed in my chosen field for less money, worse hours, and less pay, so I am the last person you need to recruit for a fight against outsourcing labour. but the plain fact is, people won't buy a 20.00 rubbermaid bucket, or a 15.00 widget that can be made for 15 cents and sold for 2 bucks. America is increasingly a hi-tech society, producing complex products that are the fruit of educated and complex labour. That is a factual shift I never thought would burn me, until my job became one of those that could be done on the cheap.

The plain and simple truth, is if you are going to condemn walmart for it, you have to condemn every large company in existence, they all take cost saving measures, or buy from someone who does.

Like I said, I don't want an argument, I took issues with the "walmart is an evil company' tone of the article (my interpretation) because I don't think the company is inherintly evil, they have a succesful business model they stick to, and whether or not the company displaces jobs or not, it DOES employ good decent hard working people who are proud of what they do.

Now, I am going to go to bed.
 
  • #12
Nah, Walmart has issues. They are a classic predatory business, seeking to bankrupt local competitors and basically continue their strategy of growth until they're the only retail store on the planet. It's just the nature of the beast. Plus, they're hostile towards their worker's attempts to unionize, and seek better pay and benefits, all the while the executives drive Bentleys.

But my biggest problem with them is the lack of conscience in seeking the cheapest possible products with little or no oversight into the conditions of the workers who produce them, or their overall impact in the world economy.

I think that they have to do what they do, as they're tied into this ponzi scheme model of continued growth, mostly for the benefit of stockholders. What needs to happen is a revamping of our regulations on companies doing business overseas to guarantee that goods are not sold in the US which use unsafe or unfair labor practices, or insufficient environmental controls. It's really out of Walmart's hands; they are a corporate freight train with no brakes. We just need to put it on the right tracks. IMO.

Casplock
 
  • #13
The minimun wage crap is bull. My grandmother knows someone who has worked at WalMart for 20 years or somethin', and he talks very highly of his job, loves it, and gets paid alot.

I agree with what RamPup said... if you're going to bash WalMart, then you might as well also bash BJ's, Publix, Sam's and every other large department store on the continent.
 
  • #14
thankyou all for the lectures. i wont read them but the look well written
smile_n_32.gif
 
  • #15
Hmmm, pard my saying that was thouroughly pointless. no one is lecturing, this is a discussion.

Capslock, What you said about a corporate freight train with no brakes is dead on, and plays into the equalization of world ecenomics. When south east asian countries raise their standard of living and labor becomes more expensive, import costs alone will bring labour back to the US.

An interesting thing is happening with IT outsourcing to India (and btw, people in the IT community can get very hostile over this topic!
smile.gif
) is that the Indian companies have already started pricing themselves out of the market, and it's happening far faster than anyone thought it would.
 
  • #16
Ah yes, but if you look into it, the money being demanded by the Indian IT firms is not being funnelled intpo the pockets of the workers, it's being demanded in order to continue "growth" (meaning higher profits for the shareholders) while the people doing thework see no improvements to their lot....

Interesting aside to this... I am a Canadian, and just this week Wal-Mart closed a store in Quebec, the first store closing EVER for them (not counting location-change closings)

The store was just like any other Wal-Mart, but with a twist- the employees successfully formed a legitimate union
smile_k_ani_32.gif


Spokepeople for the company have emphatically stated that this is not union busting......

Under our laws the company can be legally challenged for unfair business practices and if precedents are set.........

Anyways, I third the "freight train" thing.... and honestly, the concept of "unlimited growth capitalism", despite the fact that it is the status quo, is totally silly ..... finite resources - infinite greed/expansion =
confused.gif
??
 
  • #17
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mabudon @ Feb. 12 2005,1:25)]Spokepeople for the company have emphatically stated that this is not union busting......
yeah right! ;)
well then what excuse did they give for closing the store?

Scot
 
  • #18
Well, IIRC the reason was along the lines of 'a union at the store would make the operating methods of WM untenable and thus make the store unprofitable, so to avoid "losses" they hda to shut 'er down'
Which sorta sounds like union busting in an odd way, somehow.... can't quite put my finger on it though
biggrin.gif



But there will be some sort of legal challenge, it's in quebec and they have slightly different laws than we do in Ontario, but I'm sure there are methods of recourse available..... I would be glad if the same pattern happened all over Canada, and WM withdraws from our country in fear
smile_n_32.gif


But it should be interesting.... when I hear more about it I will post a link, the whole story just broke on wednesday (and I would be surprised if any media organization would mention this south of the border, it just stinks to high heaven)

Maybe the robinhood smiley mascot will be locked up in one of our white-collar "country clubs" for a while, maybe take a break from all the rollbacks

Anyways, I'm not trying to be a smart arse to RamPuppy or anyone else, just so you know, but I live in a small former Auto industry town much like Flint MI and it is pretty clear what's happening... when that many dollars get funneled out of your town bad things start to happen.... our municipality is on the verge of bankruptcy to the point where, for some folks in the know, it truly seems like our town might go out of business, as ridiculous as that sounds, and if that happens we won't even have the darn Wal Marts anymore 'cos we will not have roads or electricity or anything anymore.....
 
  • #19
Wal-Mart’s decision to build in the shadow of the pyramid of the Sun is incredibly tasteless but I have to agree with Tony.  
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]So yes it stings when lots of production jobs are lost here but on the upside consumers pay a lot less for many items. Which keeps more cash in their pockets to use for other endeavors, boosting other aspects of the US economy.
 Example: I recently purchased a ladder from Wal-Mart for $100 that was priced at $125 (same brand and made in America) at my local Ace hardware.  I felt so good about saving the money that I promptly went out and spent every penny of it on a nice steak dinner and drinks at a restaurant on the beach.

Walmart creates jobs in its' stores, borrows money from our banks, moves its' merchandise by U.S. railroads and trucking companies and distributes the earnings to U.S. stockholders in the form of interest and dividends.

The world, "she is a changing" and we must change with it.  If you are willing to adapt and work hard there is still no place in the world that you will be rewarded so handsomely as here in the U.S.
 
  • #20
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If you are willing to adapt and work hard there is still no place in the world that you will be rewarded so handsomely as here in the U.S.

Couldn't agree more, Lauderdale! This is still the land of opportunity. But for how long? Climbing the corporate ladder at some mass conglomerate isn't my idea of American entrepreneurialism! And I'd rather enjoy those rewards in a town that isn't exactly the same as all the rest of the towns down the highway. I'd like to spend those rewards at the local hardware store, or at least have the option.

More than anything, I think the WalMart-ization of the country eats at its character, and ultimately crushes its spirit. Walmarts are machines, they don't allow for individuality, experimentation, and generally don't carry locally produced products. Many of the products there are mass-produced and made by women and children for pennies an hour under deplorable conditions. Sure, you save money, but so what? At what price? And for what? After they crush the local businesses, you'll only be able to patronize chain stores and restaurants. Just like in the next town over. And the next, and the next...

Capslock
 
Back
Top