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Where do you stand in reguards to:

  • #41
well... since spanish is the next biggest language in this contry next to english, it would be good to learn it..if you feel so emotional to learn it, then dont, they are only trying to help you out. as time goes on, there will be more spanish people, as a matter of fact, statistics say in 10 years or so latino will be the majority in the USA. so do yourself a favor and learn spanish..lol
 
  • #42
Here they dont force you to learn Spanish(although in rare cases they do) but they force you to learn German or French.....or both.
smile_k_ani_32.gif

Luckily, its only for 3 years.....after that you can choose if you take any languages, and in some cases(like in my school) you can also choose to do Latin.
But I dont see the point in forcing people to learn a second language if they dont want to.......the people who dont want ot learn it will probably just mess around in the lesson.
It should be a choice if you want ot do another language or not.

When I moved from Bosnia I HAD to learn English.......I learned it in 6 months, mainly because everyone at school spoke English.
The most effective way to learn another language is to move to the country for a few months.
 
  • #43
altrade,
If I understand you correctly, you basically said that since in our lifetime its likely that hispanics will be the majority then we might as well learn to do things their way. If that is correct, the same could be said that if we invade another country, if we can out number them then they might as well accept it and turn to our ways.
confused.gif
I surely hope that is not what you think.

Joe
 
  • #44
Keep in mind I am all for multilingual but of your own accord.
 
  • #45
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] If they offered a list of languages to learn maybe I would or wouldn't go with Spanish
Yeah, it's ugly- I had a choice of either French or Spanish- and the French teacher at my school is... Not good. There are classes at the local community college, but you can't take them as a freshman or sophomore and they're feeding us "You should have at least 3 years of a foreign language to get in to a college, 4 is better," so where does that leave me? I have no interest in learning Spanish and that makes it HARD. My spiel is I learn best when I'm interested. It's not like I am resisting it or something, and I'm really trying, but I'd find it much more useful to learn the grammar of my native language (German- I understand most everything but my writing is abysmal).
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]My brother in law knows of a mexican who has lived here 19 years who can't speak English. It's evident he doesn't want to.
See, this is SUCH a pain in the butt. If you don't want to learn English while in the US don't get angry at me when I don't speak your language. I'm not saying that your friend does that but I've seen it painfully often. I understand that there are some people who cannot learn it, but if you have time (and money at that) to bring yourself in to a Palace Arts and get angry with the employees for not speaking Spanish, then you have time to go to classes some time. English is the first language for only ONE of my family members- my youngest brother. When my family moved to California from Germany we all learned the language. There's no reason not to, it's not like we're "assimilationists" we still have our heritage and culture, we never gave up any of that, and German is still spoken between us.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]A basic grasp of English should be required for citizenship.
A basic grasp is a requirement. My mother applied for citizenship and when she finally get her appointment they did make her do some basic things to prove that she could write english and she was talking to them in English. You can't really do anything about noncitizens, though. I'm learning their language, so how about them learning the national language?? Otherwise all that results are tight-knit areas of people who can't speak the language who then more often than not pursue complaining that they're "opressed". The thing is, there's ethnic bunching up like that only partially due to economic matters (in my area), it's primarily lack of willingness. I have pleanty of Mexican friends around here who speak Enlgish, and their parents too, they're first generation immigrants themselves.
 
  • #46
I couldn't agree with your more Est. If you want to live here, speak our language.
 
  • #47
Funny, I don't hear the majority of Americans speak Odolwan, Lakota, Cheyenne, Oneida etc. Face it, invasions follow invasions. If this fact can't be swallowed, think how the Amerindians felt.

Also, I've never perceived the United States as a melting pot. More as a mixed salad with putrid coagulations of dressing and out-of-date feta cheese.
 
  • #48
MOTHER, HOLY MARY OF JESUS!!! This page was LITERALLY only 2 pages long 5 minutes ago!!
 
  • #49
That was then this is now. We are responsible for the now not the "way back when....."

It is no more right than if we forced Iraqis to learn English because we are in their country. If you come to make a change for yourself then by all means but if you come to make change for me then leave cause "I AM NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR CHANGE"
blues.gif


jOE
 
  • #50
Maybe every school district could offer Spanish, German, Swahili, Thai, Bulgarian, Tagalog, and any other language a student might choose.  Kids should learn another language and Spanish & French are the most sensible choices.

It seems pretty clear that schools should teach history or, better still, students should pay attention.  The US is a nation of immigrants and, as one group after another arrived, people whose families had been here more than a generation or two got upset about the newcomers.  The new ones looked different, acted different, and often didn't know English.  A couple generations later, descendents of Germans and French Canadians and Russians and Japanese and Mexicans are English-speaking Americans.
 
  • #51
The problem is that many have been a couple generations and still don't know more than hello, thank you, Yes , No, etc....and many even less than that. You are right though about the early days and immigrants but back then it was also an unspoken respect that you learn the customs and language, culture of your new home.

Joe
 
  • #52
[b said:
Quote[/b] (superimposedhope @ Feb. 20 2005,12:04)]That was then this is now. We are responsible for the now not the "way back when....."
Uh, ok. Some don't even wait until "way back when..." to start complaining though. You're absolutely correct in saying that the current generation isn't responsible, and I should indeed continue darning Columbus' soul (what really ticks me off is that people just forget just WHO first died for the United States' freedom). Having said that, do you accept letting things go their course? Seems not, and I'm against forced learning without prior agreement as well (we can't help but feel disturbed by our acquainted ambient being modified, however slow the process).
Then again forced learning isn't just happening in schools through languages etc. It happens at birth. How'd a parent react if his/her child refused to go to church at all costs?
 
  • #53
I had a great Russian Aunt. She spoke eight languages fluently: Russian, English, Spanish, French, Italian, German, Portugese and Latin. Yes, she spoke Latin (the dead language) and she taught all of these as well. I admired that ability greatly. In school, I was given the choice to take French, Spanish, German or Latin. I choose Latin, which I regreted at the time but that turned out to be a good choice since I am in the plant industry. However, I wish I had taken a Romantic language instead (Spanish, French, Italian) which English draws a lot of it's derivations from. I understand some Spanish and Italian because I took Latin. And it has helped me with my English. When I went to school, languages were taught to broaden your mind and make you better educated. I wish I had the time to learn one now. (you can read in here,"He's lazy") You would think Spanish since my last name is Garcia. I would learn two, Spanish and Italian.
 
  • #54
Since I'm lazy, I'm probably going to choose Spanish as my foreign language course I need to do.. if I wasn't so lazy, I'd choose Latin, just because I like to be ironic.
 
  • #55
Anecdote: In the movie called, "The Day After Tomorrow", the US President dies and the formerly anagonistic VP found himself in the ironic position of asking the Mexican people for permission to enter Mexico, to survive the sudden ice age. Ya think the Americans are going to learn Mexican Spanish?

As Amercians who have grown up in this culture, we take many things for granted. One of them is the English language. However, when immigrants from non-English speaking countries come here, they are in culture shock,in many ways. They have tended to congregate in cities and neighborhoods within cities of others from their former country, as a survival technique. I saw sections of Vietnamese & Puerto Ricans, banding together in order to survive. Their children had the cultural aspects of survival a lot easier. They naturally heard the one language at home and English everywhere else.

While it would be desirable for immigrants to learn English, we still need to be compassionate toward those whose language and culture is radically different from what they've known all their lives. You just don't tell a 60 year old Vietnamese, "Learn English, you idiot!"

If you, as a born and raised American went to China, wouldn't you seek out other Americans or English speaking people? Wouldn't you feel just a bit out of place in a foreign (to you) country? Wouldn't you appreciate something in English or help from Chinese citizens?
 
  • #56
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Funny, I don't hear the majority of Americans speak Odolwan, Lakota, Cheyenne, Oneida etc.
Heck, I sure wouldn't mind learning those languages, in fact if they were offered I would- my schtick is that they offer 2 languages one of which is thoroughly useless here and the teacher is bad. Chines, Japanese, Latin- if they offered anything likethat I'd be complaining a lot less. The problem isn't even that it isn't offered, it's that I CAN'T even take them when I need them for school due to age restrictions.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If you, as a born and raised American went to China, wouldn't you seek out other Americans or English speaking people? Wouldn't you feel just a bit out of place in a foreign (to you) country? Wouldn't you appreciate something in English or help from Chinese citizens?
It sure would be appreciated, and if there's someone doesn't speak English, I help them to the best of my extent -I'm in my third year of learning-, that's not the problem. Think, would it really be fair for you to move to China and NEVER learn Chinese?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]"Learn English, you idiot!"
It's funny and ironic, that TOTALLY sounds like my Spanish teacher. Furthermore, for myself, I said there are some cases where it isn't possible, if you need to work all day just to scrape a living, I don't expect you to pay to go to classes, if you're elderly or otherwise lack the capacity, that's fine, but when people with plenty of opporatunity don't learn it just because it's more convenient for them, that's just being selfish.
 
  • #57
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Truthfully, I wish schools would spend more time teaching students propper grammar and pronunciation for ENGLISH rather than worrying about foriegn languages.
oy... no way... we have enough english classes. If you don't learn proper english, it's because you don't want to not because you aren't taught.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]we communicate in English, but who the heck knows what a relative clause is, indirect object, direct object, prepositions, gerunds, verbs, injunctions, interjections, conjunctions, the list goes on and on.
why should we anyway? It's enough to know how to talk right... why have to know the names of all that?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] I certainly think it should be an option, but until our nation's 6th graders can read English at a 6th grade level, I think we should spend less money on second-language classes and more money on basic education.
of course... it's much harder to learn another language once you're in 6th grade than before, so that is just making things more difficult.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]as time goes on, there will be more spanish people, as a matter of fact, statistics say in 10 years or so latino will be the majority in the USA.
latino does not equal spanish. spanish people are from spain.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But I dont see the point in forcing people to learn a second language if they dont want to.......the people who dont want ot learn it will probably just mess around in the lesson.
this brings a good point... why should they force you to learn ANY subjects? why the heck should they even force you to go to school? I bet that learning spanish would come in more handy than certain other subjects like earth science and chemistry ... or ... as much as I hate to say this... biology for most people. so why teach those and not spanish?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]if we invade another country, if we can out number them then they might as well accept it and turn to our ways
invasion? oh please. nobody is invading anyone except bush invading iraq.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Funny, I don't hear the majority of Americans speak Odolwan, Lakota, Cheyenne, Oneida etc. Face it, invasions follow invasions
I don't think I know of anyone who does know those languages. and again, this is not an invasion!
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The problem is that many have been a couple generations and still don't know more than hello, thank you, Yes , No, etc....and many even less than that
who the heck is like that? I don't know anyone who is like that. every person I know that has been born here and has lived here for any more than 4 years knows the same amount of english as americans. they hear it on TV, school, etc.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You would think Spanish since my last name is Garcia.
really? my dad's second last name is garcia :p
 
  • #58
and Latinos are Latin Americans which typically speak Spanish and English depending. So what? If they speak Spanish then they are included unless of course they are English speaking or at least attempting.

Don't start with political crap! BTW if you're gonna quote then make a comment about it qoute the whole darn phrase or paragraph thats relevant. What you quoted was part of a response to someone else that is in context to what was said. Also read Coppers post on like the 2nd or 3rd page. Countless of my daughters friends parents can't or won't speak a single word of English they just talk to their kids in Spanish and the child translates for them. This is absolutely rediculous. I would not move to China and expect anyone to speak English, perhaps I would seek others like me in the city. This would beneficial to learn a new language if you have help. I however would not use others as an excuse to not further myself in a new country.
I talk to people who have horrible English all the time, the difference is that they are paying attention when others are speaking and you can see it in their eyes that they are making mental notes of proper context for the uses of different words and just trying to learn and understand in general.

The only people I'm knockin here are the ones that do not make any attempt to learn any English or pretend not to, one or the other. I don't care where you come from if you are typing to me in English then i am not directing this to you because you obviously learned it.

Joe
 
  • #59
Joe said, "Countless of my daughters friends parents can't or won't speak a single word of English they just talk to their kids in Spanish and the child translates for them. This is absolutely rediculous."

I say, no it isn't.  That's the way it's always been and always will be.  Kids pick up a language like a dog picks up fleas.  Sometimes immigrant parents do and sometimes they don't.  Whether it's intentional or not and whether or not you can see it in their eyes.  But it doesn't matter because their kids learn English and their kids' kids and so on will too.

Generations of people in the US have stomped their feet and whined that newly arrived people don't speak English and don't try.  It's an argument that was exhausted by the Know Nothings in the 1850s and should have been dead and buried long ago.  It's completely mummified in 2005, but the dusty beast keeps rising from the grave.
 
  • #60
herenorthere,
On some things I agree. It is age old,yes, but I think also the problem is that the immigrants who moved here were always left with a feeling that the newest immigrants were not trying as hard as they did and the ones befor them and so on. Afterall when we(Euros) first arrived, it was very diificult to eek out a living, and when others began moving here after the first had taken the risk and started something. I beleive this probably began the first of resentment for immigrants. They likely felt that the new comers had not saccrificed yet were reaping the rewards. This probably turned into not taking the time to learn the ways of your new country yet you want the freedom from monarchy. Still churning over time became resentment for immigrants who did not join the culture and customs of the new country(including English speach)

I am not stating this to be fact, I am just offering a possible explanation.

P.S.Yes you are also right about the kids and their kids will speak English but for the ones who this applies to there are still more coming that are just beginning the cycle so........at this rate my kids' kids will be fluent spanish speakers from early age because it will be necesary for them to. This doesn't have to be the case, its just the most likely.

I don't and won't accept anyone not being able to learn English in America. If you want to then you will and if you don't care then you probably won't. Too many don't care if they know English.

BTW in quite a few other countries you are a target for robbery or death if you cannot communicate with local people. If all you get is ridicule for your accent, then perhaps you're doin alright.

Thats it for me, I've had enough arguing.

Later folks
Joe
 
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