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Thread: Animals

  1. #1

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    this is a big topic but I thought we'd start with intelligence.
    How smart do you think non-human animals are? (broad question, I know... just say anything relating to that) do you think animals can reason? plan ahead? do they have feelings like love, sadness, etc? how much do you think their lives are ruled by instinct?

    this is mostly relating to the 3% of animals that have bones, but a small part is also about the 97% of all animals that are invertebrates.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
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    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
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  2. #2

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    heck yes they do! What did you think? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_n_32.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    to an extent.

  4. #4
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    I believe nearly all mammals are almost as smart as humans.
    the only difference is they havent developed the ability to speak in a language WE can understand..(and they probably dont care to anyway)
    they speak among themselves perfectly clearly all the time.
    Dogs
    Cats
    Primates
    Cows
    Horses
    Dolphins
    Whales
    etc
    have about 75% of our intelligence.
    (zero % being a non-living object, like a rock)

    IMO Dogs are more intelligent than one year old humans.
    anyone who has ever owned a dog knows it can learn dozens of words.
    My parents have a dog that can recognize 10 different toys by name, say "Haggis, wheres kong"?
    and he goes and gets THAT specific toy..
    same with the other 10 toys, each has a name, and he knows them all..
    nothing but advanced intelligence can explain that.

    some primates can speak to us and make themselves understood.
    (koko, sign language, etc.)
    there is a lot going on in those brains..

    Scot

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]they speak among themselves perfectly clearly all the time
    communicate would be a better word... through smell, sight, hearing, taste, touch, and others (probably... can't think of one right now but since many also have other senses, i'm guessing they do)
    and speaking of language... in a way we're the retarded ones. THEY are the ones who have to understand us. I know my birds understand me much more than I understand them. I just hear screaming LOL. I think something is smarter if they learn other's language instead of making others learn theirs.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  6. #6
    Loves VFT's! Trapper7's Avatar
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    Smile

    Scottychaos,I agree with.My dog does the same thing with his toy,whether it's a ball,kong,rope whatever,he knows.It's amazing I think.He also knows hand signals,like sit,stand,down.Anywho,yeah I think they have feelings too,like sadness cause if you have two dogs lets say and one dies,sometimes the one left behind gets very depressed.It doesn't have to be a dog,I've seen it in snakes too.So yeah I think they have feelings.*Trapper7* [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_r_32.gif[/img]
    Great Googly Moogly!

    Beware of the yellow snow!

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    I think it's obvious that animals reason and think ahead. for example... even a itty bitty jumping spider with a brain the size of a grain of salt thinks ahead and reasons... if something doesn't work, try something else.
    sigh... here it comes. I'll try to make it short.
    there's a jumping spider that eats other spiders. it goes to a web, slowly makes it's way towards the center, and then starts plucking the spider web so the spider thinks it's cought food. however, sometimes that doesn't work and the pray spider doesn't want to see. Then the jumping spider sees it's not going to work so it gets off of the spider web, looks around to see where to go, and then circles around (many times loosing the sight of the spider web) and ends up above the spider web in a good position so it can jump from there and catch the spider.
    now... if that's not reasoning and thinking ahead, what is it?
    so if a little tiny miniscule spider with a miniscule brain can do that and much more (meaning that all it's brain isn't dedicated for that purpose only), it's stupid to think others can't think ahead and reason.
    If you've ever seen an animal hesitate... that also shows reasoning. they have to ask themselves "should I do it? should I not? why?" ... otherwise there would be no hesitation.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  8. #8
    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    I think a lot of people also confuse intelligence with consciousness. From what I've read about the neocortex and how it relates to consciousness... I'm under the impression that mammals (and birds to an extent) could be the only conscious lifeforms on the planet.

    Conscious thought takes a great deal of energy, and it doesn't make evolutionary (uh oh, e-word) sense for a creature's body to be gathering all of those extra resources for a trait they do just fine without. It's a very recent evolutionary development, but we myopically have trouble envisioning a life without it.

    A computer isn't conscious (yet), but it can be programmed to do some very complex and seemingly intuitive things. It's the same with biological life... the lower lifeforms could be considered biological robots. If you read into artificial intelligence, you find that there are a lot of things we consider 'intelligence', until we figure out how they work, and then it just becomes an algorithm. It's weird how studying AI taught me more about evolution and biology than most things I've read. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]

    Watching things in my backyard actually got a little more interesting after I started asking myself those question. Somehow an ant is a lot more interesting when you picture it as a little self-sustaining procreating networked microbot. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_n_32.gif[/img]

    I believe this is also what the debate on what feels pain and what doesn't is lacking. Creatures that don't make conscious choices don't need to feel pain to stay safe... their bodies simply need to automatically cause them to escape. They aren't going to resist. And even if some of them appear to experience pain biologically, how much does it matter if there's "nobody home" to feel it? I'm not advocating abuse whatsoever, but there's no point in going out of your way to protect something for its own sake when it doesn't care either way.

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