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Thread: Lets discuss beliefs

  1. #265

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    also... if you have any more documents i would still want them.
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  2. #266

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    http://www.probe.org/docs/ancient.html

    here there are a few more listed here one more roman and two jewish documents that mention jesus, and i think the jews hated jesus more than the romans did, so their mention of him should make it pretty clear that he did at some point exist, now if he was divine or not that is up for interpretation.
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  3. #267

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    Luis,
    when you are at a website, go up to your tool bar and left click on Edit. You will get a drop down menu. From here left click on Find (on This Page). A window will open. Type the key word or words you are looking for in the field next to Find What and press the Enter key.
    This is a neat trick someone shared with me to locate appropriate text on a page. Make sure you are at the top of the page before searching as this search works downward.
    This should speed up looking for what you want. It sure did for me.

  4. #268
    Somewhat Unstable superimposedhope's Avatar
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    How many times are you going to ask someone to prove Jesus or God exists just so you can argue it? Haven't you figured out that NONE of you are going to be persuaded and will not give the other a fair shot because you set out to prove others wrong instead of learning any real truth. You argue this over and over with no intention but to argue being right and dissuade others from their own belief systems. These Evo VS. Religion threads get old and annoying, they were at ONE time fun and a learning experience - not anymore.

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  5. #269

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    Ktulu,

    No, the jews didn't hate jesus any more than the Romans did. The romans knew jesus and his sheeplings were a threat, 'cuz nothing is has sharper teeth than an evangelical christian. The romans knew that intolerance for other's beliefs is a basic tenet of christianity, and they knew the christians would stop at nothing to destroy their way of life.

    Next, you'll be trying to tell me that the jews killed jesus, which is obviously and patently incorrect. April
    \"People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution; they don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible,\" Jamie Raskin, to Senator Nancy Jacobs.

  6. #270
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (endparenthesis @ Mar. 27 2005,3:46)]The big question is, would you even aspire to perform miracles? Jesus didn't want followers in the end, he wanted peers, wouldn't you say? "This you too can do."

    You've open up a can of worms, here! However, the bible is very clear that the Holy Spirit dispenses the manifestional gifts as He so chooses. I couldn't do a miracle if my life depended upon it. Same with speaking in tongues or interpreting or anything else extra-ordinary - at least thus far.

    In one instance, Jesus had performed a miracle in front of the crowds. Those people were very impressed. However, Jesus was not impressed by the response from these people, because it was shallow, without faith. It was like a circus act. Jesus / God is impressed by faith and faith in action, which is expressing that faith in loving others, which includes the afore-mentioned forgiveness concept.

    The historical church of course didn't want you to stand next to Jesus, they wanted you to grovel. They couldn't get rich off of empowered people.

    Let me 'splain something to you: That historical church thing you are referring to is that "organized" Holy Roman Catholic church, LARGELY made up of people who were "christians" in name only. Thet identified themselves as being "christain" but were NOT Christians in heart. There is an incredible difference between someone who goes to church or identifies themselves as "christian" or Catholic or Protestant. It is the same in today's society. There are more christain in name only going to church than there are people who have Jesus into their hearts.

    You are comparing religious theological garbage and people whose hearts never knew Jesus as Lord & Savior to those who have and lumped them all together. The same thing happened in Jesus' time. He was contending with the Jewish leaders (Pharisees & Sadducees) who didn't know the first thing about faith and love. He called them a brood of vipers. To those who called themselves "sons of Abraham" he was blunt again, telling them that they weren't true sins of Abraham because they don't do as Abraham did - which is to have faith. He was talking with nominal Jews - Jews in name only - which is what I was.

    That "historical church", characteristically, did not represent true Christianity. It was dead. Just as the Jewish religion, as portrayed by the Pharisees, Sadducees, and other sheeplike commoners was dead, so is it in today's society. Nothing has changed in human history. However, the church always had a faithful remnant. So have the Jews and so it is true now.

    So pushing the church's manipulation out of your mind completely (and much of it is still around, not because people intend to manipulate, but because they don't know the difference... what they were taught is true as far as they're concerned) and following Jesus completely... why not believe you can be capable of what he was capable of? Could Son of God and Children of God be the same thing?
    Um, Could you ellucidate on that last paragraph? I'm not following it.

  7. #271
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (superimposedhope @ Mar. 27 2005,11:11)]How many times are you going to ask someone to prove Jesus or God exists just so you can argue it? Haven't you figured out that NONE of you are going to be persuaded and will not give the other a fair shot because you set out to prove others wrong instead of learning any real truth. You argue this over and over with no intention but to argue being right and dissuade others from their own belief systems. These Evo VS. Religion threads get old and annoying, they were at ONE time fun and a learning experience - not anymore.

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    $uperimposedhope
    Joe, funny you shoul say that! I was just telling someone essentially the same thing. As you remember, last year we had the "Passion of Christ" topic, immediately followed by the "Religious Preferences" topic, with pretty much the same cast of participants. It would have been better had their been like 6 months in between. A year later, we have the same scenario. And no one is convinced.

    However, I find these topic fun and they have als resulted in some very positive things. Personally, I have found more Christians and made new friends. Even the one whose theological beliefs are at odds with mine, resulted in a side debate on the PM's, which resulted in an ongoing friendship. S that's pretty cool!

  8. #272
    God must have an interesting sense of humor Wesley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (jimscott @ Mar. 27 2005,7:15)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (superimposedhope @ Mar. 27 2005,11:11)]How many times are you going to ask someone to prove Jesus or God exists just so you can argue it? Haven't you figured out that NONE of you are going to be persuaded and will not give the other a fair shot because you set out to prove others wrong instead of learning any real truth. You argue this over and over with no intention but to argue being right and dissuade others from their own belief systems. These Evo VS. Religion threads get old and annoying, they were at ONE time fun and a learning experience - not anymore.

    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/confused.gif[/img]
    $uperimposedhope
    Joe, funny you shoul say that! I was just telling someone essentially the same thing. As you remember, last year we had the "Passion of Christ" topic, immediately followed by the "Religious Preferences" topic, with pretty much the same cast of participants. It would have been better had their been like 6 months in between. A year later, we have the same scenario. And no one is convinced.

    However, I find these topic fun and they have als resulted in some very positive things. Personally, I have found more Christians and made new friends. Even the one whose theological beliefs are at odds with mine, resulted in a side debate on the PM's, which resulted in an ongoing friendship. S that's pretty cool!
    I would have to agree with Jim on that one, and I was(or one of the ones) you were talking to about that. Though these do get old(for both sides I'm sure), they do seem to help you make more friends. Sure, some of us(even me at times) can probably sound pretty cruel but we aren't trying to(I think).

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Ktulu,

    No, the jews didn't hate jesus any more than the Romans did. The romans knew jesus and his sheeplings were a threat, 'cuz nothing is has sharper teeth than an evangelical christian. The romans knew that intolerance for other's beliefs is a basic tenet of christianity, and they knew the christians would stop at nothing to destroy their way of life.

    Next, you'll be trying to tell me that the jews killed jesus, which is obviously and patently incorrect. April
    uh..... I've always read and heard that the Jews(not the Romans) chose to crucify Jesus in place of a murderer.......

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]also... if you have any more documents i would still want them.
    I thought you didn't care? It's great that you want them and all but if you don't care, that's just a waste of our time researching something. If youre gonna use it then we will be all the more happy to look it up though. Just seeing which course youre gonna take cause you keep switching on us, dude.
    ~Wes~

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