Lets discuss beliefs

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]Agree with JLP on animals and plants with "souls" (for lack of a better word)

I believe if humans have souls, then other life has souls too.

Quote[/b] ]as for what i believe, i believe that what ever religion enlightens you, makes your feel spiritually fufilled etc. is the correct religion for you

I think that the concept of being spiritually fulfillment just comes in when people are "born again"... meaning that they were once "born" (for lack of a better term...) and had a religion, then they lost faith but still felt they missed something, and then were "born again".

Quote[/b] ]in addition to what wesley said the Romans(who were polythestic and exicuted jesus for political reasons), who wrote everything down, also have records of jesus.

any documents you could give me?

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]BTY I recently discovered that most of the "cousins" (people younger then 42) in my family, well the ones we talk to, beleve a similar thing.

lol. I have a CRAZY (not literally... although one or two might be ROFLMAO) family. all kinds of beliefs from all over the world. I don't even know what they believe in anymore.

 

[Treaqum]

What is wiht being born again. If you lose faith that means obviously somehting went wrong (right?). So why sould you believe that again if it did not work the first time. Unless this is the "third times the charm" ideal

 

[Rubra]

It's true that many people are "indoctrinated" and end up on islands. There are also people who are on islands of being "open to everything" but never having set standards of right and wrong. These islands do not depend on the issues in hand, it is just your approach to truth. You can either consider truth to be whatever can be scientifically proven, or you base your idea of truth on what you have seen and experienced, or you can start with a worldview and build walls of truth around it.

I think the most important thing for everybody to know is what they beleive, and why they beleive it. If you don't know what you beleive, you are just another creature following its instincts; if you don't know why you beleive what you beleive, you might as well just be another creature following its instincts.

I don't know about everybody else here, but the meaning of life is very important to me. If I am here only because some mud mutated, and if after I die, I just turn back into mud, there is no reason to do anything different from the animals, no reason not just to follow my instincts. Yet I am convinced that there is a purpose for everything, and that with the existence of time and space, there is automatically an existence for reason. After all, you could say that we are just a natural miracle that happens on a little ball spinning around a little star which makes up part of a little galaxy suspended in space. However, the very fact that we can reason, that we do reason, and that we need truth, leads me to beleive that there reason and truth must exist in this universe.

Now, if reason exists, then there must be a reason for the existence of the whole universe, let alone each little part that works perfectly together. Is the whole universe just the result of random chance? Then how did it all begin? If it is all random chance, then why is the blue sky attractive to us, and why do we like to look and smell flowers, even if we don't even pollinate them? And why are we not content with the world we have built ouselves? Think about it - why are the rich, who can have anything they want, still not happy?

Perhaps someone wanted to make us like him; creatures he could know personally. In this case he would have made us in a way that we don't automatically worship him. He would give us choice, and see what we do with it. It would make sense, in that case, that he'd have standards for us, to determine which ones he keeps, and which ones go into the fireplace. Maybe we were designed so that we are only happy if we know the guy who created us. Maybe that's the reason I do what I do, why I go to the trouble of being a "Christian"...

Peter

 

[Treaqum]

Well I happen to think that to be successful in life you must either (or do both)
1) procreate (sp?)
2) Do something great with your life. The definition of great is of course up to your interpretation)
Of course I am biased by saying the "god" must be female (making it a goddess) because of the simple reason that most religions seem to make man superior to woman which in our modern socety know that is not true. So the fact that the godess is a woman would lead to the fact that most "bad people" (murders, abusers, etc) are male and therefore their souls are destroyed and "new" ones come about.
I have to agree with rubra in you must know why you beleve what you do and feel the need to add that it should not be what your parents believed because they believed it. Go out experience hte world make choices about it on your own. What you beleve is not really that important because in the end we could all be wrong. What ever happens after death happens we living creatures can only make guesses at what we may not even be able to comprehend. Whether I am right or wrong does not concern me since the world will continue after I am dead just as it did before I was born. As long as I accomplish one of the two goals I am happy. Of course the journey toward the goals is really the happy part. Just live happily as you are don't worry about being happy-er

 

[Clint]

yay! Rubra knows what i'm talking about!

i read all about it in Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce
it's not a cultish thing, it really applies to everyone and anyone.


if anyone is interested, theres a retreat in the mountains. no obligations, and it's free. We'll have cake and punch there. there will be a short seminar about how your not really happy and why you wake up to the sound of your own screems and cry yourself to sleep inside.

your not really happy.

your not REALLY happy.

are you really HAPPY?

 

[Treaqum]

I am happy as I may ever be. So I don't worry about it. I never cry myself to sleep nor do I wake up to my screams. Since in my dreams I may already be dead whats the point of screaming. Oh yeah if I am about to die and I wake up well there was no point to screaming since that will not help. I try to keep things rational

 

[Clint]

auctually that was just a little joke

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]I don't know about everybody else here, but the meaning of life is very important to me. If I am here only because some mud mutated, and if after I die, I just turn back into mud, there is no reason to do anything different from the animals, no reason not just to follow my instincts

like we said in the evo. thread, just because you evolved doesn't mean you can't have a religion or that "god" somehow made you evolve.

Quote[/b] ]Is the whole universe just the result of random chance?

it is NOT random. there are natural laws which things follow, and natural SELECTION. (since you obviously have evolution in mind). the word itself says it is not random.

Quote[/b] ]If it is all random chance, then why is the blue sky attractive to us, and why do we like to look and smell flowers, even if we don't even pollinate them? And why are we not content with the world we have built ouselves? Think about it - why are the rich, who can have anything they want, still not happy?

there could be many reasons... we don't like the smell of ALL flowers nor the sky ALL the time. We like "nice" clear, sunny days with the blue sky because we see clearly and we associate it with being outside and having fun, etc. we like the smell of flowers because of the same reasons... hey, I don't claim to know all the answers but just because we like something doesn't mean there's a god or that the god you have chosen is right. The rich may not be happy because of many things... you can't just generalize things like that.

Quote[/b] ]Well I happen to think that to be successful in life you must either (or do both)
1) procreate (sp?)
2) Do something great with your life.

I get number two but why number one? and without number two, number one is useless because unless you procreate and make something great for those kids, well... there's no point.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

PS. wait wait wait... treaqum- what's your religion?
I'm also a big believer on knowing what and why you believe... but just because I want to know everything it doesn't mean I will believe what I WANT to believe. Religion is what you WANT to believe.
like my signature says: I dont want to believe. I want to KNOW

 

[Treaqum]

I meant to keep your genes in the gene pool (the goal of every living thing). 2) was like find a new plant, take over a country, etc. Where you are not doing anything for the kids you are doing it for your own prestige. What ever you interprete "great" to mean. To quote Pres. Clinton "It depends on your definition of that word,".

 

[Treaqum]

Temple of the Vampire.
No seriously there is no name for my "religion". like I said I was raised in an "open house" well until 5th grade. Whcih then I rebelled against b/c my grandparents were christian and they forced me to go to "church" when my mother and I went to live with them. I beleve in things I witnessed and so I "know" rather then beleve then I connect events with logical explainations. That fit. Hence the past lives. This fits events in my and other peoples lives. I haven;t quite figured out Deja vu but I beleve it may have to do with "rips in time". I could not consider my self having a religion per say b/c I belive what makes sense to me. The events in my life shaped my "religion" . But to name it I could not do. Other people probibly beleve similar things as me but who does I could not say.

 

[endparenthesis]

I'm trying to stay out of this topic... but I thought I'd comment on this one:

Quote[/b] ]Think about it - why are the rich, who can have anything they want, still not happy?

I'd say it's because they've been told since birth that money will solve all of their problems, and they fall into a deep depression when they finally find, after all their hard work to get there, that they've been lied to.

They're still the same people who sabotage their lives in the same ways. They still make the same dumb mistakes (and now have the power to make even bigger ones).

And I'm sure it's great never knowing who genuinely likes you and simply wants to be around you anymore.

One of my favorite quotes in the world:
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Money is a how, not a why.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

That's exactly what I mean. Just because you don't know why/how something happens, doesn't mean that you can believe whatever you WANT.

 

[Treaqum]

Well then explain the other religions to me. Like Christians. anyone can write a book to "explain why/what happened. Does not mean the book is true. Sorry about the rattingon the Christians but you seemed most familiar wiht them

 

[Rubra]

Quote[/b] ]I'd say it's because they've been told since birth that money will solve all of their problems, and they fall into a deep depression when they finally find, after all their hard work to get there, that they've been lied to.

So what are the lies? What is it that they don't have, that keeps them from being happy?

I'll tell you straight out that I'm happy. And let me tell you, its not just the happiness of living a good life. I've done that too. Its the happiness many "Christians" don't know. It's because I know God, and he is using me, and supplying my every need. It's not just ignorant bliss. I literally have no fear, no worry, no complaints.

Quote[/b] ]it is NOT random. there are natural laws which things follow, and natural SELECTION. (since you obviously have evolution in mind). the word itself says it is not random.

Well, either this is all predetermined, or things don't change, or organisms randomly mutate. Natural selection is only the theory for why only some of the mutants survive.

Peter

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

what do you mean explain it to you? are you asking me? I don't have a religion...
are you asking me why I think they wrote it?

 

[ktulu]

Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Mar. 22 2005,1:24)]

Quote[/b] ]in addition to what wesley said the Romans(who were polythestic and exicuted jesus for political reasons), who wrote everything down, also have records of jesus.

any documents you could give me?

its been a while since I learned that, plus even if i could give you the names of documents they would be in ancient greek as i dont believe they have been translated. im sure there are some christian historians who could give you more information than me, but i do remember the romans kept court records of his trial and execution.

 

[Rubra]

I think the Koran mentions the existence of Christ, though it does not accept his teachings.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

christian historians? i want historians not christian historians.
There are many myths out there... and christianity being the biggest religion is more prone to those myths. heck... someone even made a "jesus box" that fooled many scientists for a while. Then they cought the guy and there were tons of other things in museums and everything from that very same guy. He was also making other tons of artifacts. saying that there are documents that are in other languages is MUCH easier to both fake and believe. Besides, many of those documents would probably end up in the church and it's hard to get them out so they can be tested for authenticity.
and since it's been a while... that adds even more doubts.
and even if Jesus is mentioned, It doesn't really matter since I already think the probably did live. As I do think that most if not all of the temples and civilizations the bible talks about were there... since it happened during that time.

Quote[/b] ]Well, either this is all predetermined, or things don't change, or organisms randomly mutate.  Natural selection is only the theory for why only some of the mutants survive.

"god" could make natural selection possible. I don't see how they are mutually exlusive.

Quote[/b] ]I'll tell you straight out that I'm happy

me too. I don't need to have a religion to be happy. Most theists believe you have to have a religion to be happy.
People only need religion because they THINK they do. Ever since you were little people have told you things about spiritual fulfillment and being happier with god and all that. I feel perfectly whole and happy as I am (did I mention I was christian when I was little? I didn't fill more whole back then... nor happier)