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I am upset.
- Thread starter SarraceniaScott
- Start date
[b said:
Oh, man....I see this in the future, I do. Don't look forward to that one bit, I don't.
Spanking...Sheesh. Tough one. MHO is that it depends on the kid, and the age of that kid. For a three year old, the ability to see circumstances like "you'll hurt someone's feelings," or "it's just not the right thing to do" are just a little to cerebral. They need a more "real" reason to behave. At that age, they really haven't developed the ability to "put themselves in someone else's shoes." So I think that a spanking is sometimes warrented. My mother used to make me write (and before that say in at least 50 words, or something of that nature) exactly WHY I'd gotten spanked, and why what I did was wrong.
Remember, the real world is not NEARLY as forgiving as parrents. Cussing someone out at home may get you sent to your room without dinner....Try that in public and see if you don't come home all banged up.
We punnish for two reasons. One, to make sure they understand right from wrong. Two, to make sure the understand there are consequences to bad behaviour.
I know how ya feel Scott. My 4 yr old LOVES picking flowers. I've had her pick a few U. primalaflora flowers and bring them to me. Fourtuanately, I rarly get seed from these and was not all that upset. It allowed me the oportunity to exp. to her that I did not want any of MY flowers picked. However, my dog did get into one of my bog planters and, Nep pots, and wreak havoc. I no longer own a dog. I gave him to a friend who wanted him. If I was living in the country.......
My father hit me.
Once.
I was around 4 or 5 years young.
My father, my uncle and my cousin and myself were going to the store. When we got there we were told to stay in the car.
The door to the store had not even finished closing and we were out of the car. We ran around the small building time after time.
On one unlucky revolution...a large left hand grabed me arm. The right-belted hand delivered, one home run swing.
Not an easy swing. Not one that left a whelp either. Sorta like a "Goldilocks" type of blow.
Just right.
That was the only time me Da hit me.
I think at this age a child lives in a dream world. I know I did.
Testing limits of the parent? I think testing the limits of life in general. Exploring this strange world into which we are thrusted.
Later infractions were dealt with by words.
Me Da had this gift of explaining things that just made sense to me. We were a lot alike.
I am not sure that it was an issue of wether I was a good or bad child. I do know that my father was my best friend and I would have done anything to please him.
The main thing about him was - he took the time to talk to me like an adult and explain things to me. I responded to this method. Every person is different though.
Funny, most children are embarassed by their parents. All of my friends loved my father. He had a gift.
My uncle had 5 children. 3 boys and 2 girls - in that order.
The first two received brutal whippings. The middle child was never disciplined and the two girls never were a problem.
The one that was never disciplined is the worst to this day. He has stolen tens of thousands of dollars from his family, sold his father's valuable gun collection, sold his mother's diamond ring valued at $10,000, stole his other brother's and sister's money and valuables and wrecked several brand new cars. One wreck was so bad that he was in the hospital recovering physically for a year.
He is in his mid thirties and sitting in drug rehab at this very moment.
I think that most professionals would say that his behavior is a cry for attention that he never received and a plea for help.
I do not know if punishment would have worked. Who can now? All I know is that he was not punished and he is suffering and the ones around him are too.
Am I traumatized today for my father hitting me with a belt - one time? No.
I remember the hundreds of times he took the time to explain the ways of the world to me.
My response to his explanations was always, 'Why?'
He never tired of the hundreds of times he kept on explaining the 'why' to me.
Talk to your daughter Scott. Better yet, buy her, her own flytrap. Teach her the right kind of water and soil for it. Take her to a bog. Explain the niche of CP to her. Tell her they may not be there for her children. Include the whole of Nature, not just CP. She may love water lillies instead. Buy her a CP book. She is the future. She may find a way to save, not just CP, but the whole festering world.
My father bought me my first CP book by Randall Schwartz. He bought me a pithcer plant. I was ruined for life. Both, for CP and reading.
I still have that first CP book.
Good Luck,
Tweek
Once.
I was around 4 or 5 years young.
My father, my uncle and my cousin and myself were going to the store. When we got there we were told to stay in the car.
The door to the store had not even finished closing and we were out of the car. We ran around the small building time after time.
On one unlucky revolution...a large left hand grabed me arm. The right-belted hand delivered, one home run swing.
Not an easy swing. Not one that left a whelp either. Sorta like a "Goldilocks" type of blow.
Just right.
That was the only time me Da hit me.
I think at this age a child lives in a dream world. I know I did.
Testing limits of the parent? I think testing the limits of life in general. Exploring this strange world into which we are thrusted.
Later infractions were dealt with by words.
Me Da had this gift of explaining things that just made sense to me. We were a lot alike.
I am not sure that it was an issue of wether I was a good or bad child. I do know that my father was my best friend and I would have done anything to please him.
The main thing about him was - he took the time to talk to me like an adult and explain things to me. I responded to this method. Every person is different though.
Funny, most children are embarassed by their parents. All of my friends loved my father. He had a gift.
My uncle had 5 children. 3 boys and 2 girls - in that order.
The first two received brutal whippings. The middle child was never disciplined and the two girls never were a problem.
The one that was never disciplined is the worst to this day. He has stolen tens of thousands of dollars from his family, sold his father's valuable gun collection, sold his mother's diamond ring valued at $10,000, stole his other brother's and sister's money and valuables and wrecked several brand new cars. One wreck was so bad that he was in the hospital recovering physically for a year.
He is in his mid thirties and sitting in drug rehab at this very moment.
I think that most professionals would say that his behavior is a cry for attention that he never received and a plea for help.
I do not know if punishment would have worked. Who can now? All I know is that he was not punished and he is suffering and the ones around him are too.
Am I traumatized today for my father hitting me with a belt - one time? No.
I remember the hundreds of times he took the time to explain the ways of the world to me.
My response to his explanations was always, 'Why?'
He never tired of the hundreds of times he kept on explaining the 'why' to me.
Talk to your daughter Scott. Better yet, buy her, her own flytrap. Teach her the right kind of water and soil for it. Take her to a bog. Explain the niche of CP to her. Tell her they may not be there for her children. Include the whole of Nature, not just CP. She may love water lillies instead. Buy her a CP book. She is the future. She may find a way to save, not just CP, but the whole festering world.
My father bought me my first CP book by Randall Schwartz. He bought me a pithcer plant. I was ruined for life. Both, for CP and reading.
I still have that first CP book.
Good Luck,
Tweek
PlantAKiss
Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, Engl
Spanking is a tough issue. Personally, I'm not too much for it. I think it teaches children that violence is a way to solve a problem. Not to mention the confusion that happens when the child then resorts to solving a problem the same way (i.e. smacking a kid at school) and then gets punished for doing it. How do you tell a young child "YOU can't hit anyone but its OK for me to hit you."?
Discipline is VERY important...it just doesn't have to involve striking a child. I think the best way is talking to the child and a punishment involving the loss of something they like. I do agree that many of us older folks were spanked and certainly weren't damaged for life by having been so. A little "pop" on the butt of a 2-3 yr old often scares them more than hurts them. Still...I think its hard to explain to a child why adults can hit and they can't.
I agree with Phil though...although I can only remember being spanked once, some of the things I see kids do in public (stores, restaurants, etc.) APPALLS ME! I would have been "killed" for doing such things! Running and shouting in stores, playing with merchandise, etc. I would never have even THOUGHT about it much less done it. It does seem that many young kids today have NO discipline.
Just this weekend I was at a garden center and I saw two kids running hellbent for a massive mound of mulch. (hehe...alliteration!) I knew what they were going to do...and sure 'nuff they scaled the mountain and started playing and throwing the mulch. I thought to myself..."I would have been killed for doing that!" Where was the parent? Off browsing plants not giving one thought to where her kids were and what they doing. The garden shop owner had to come out and find the mother and ask her to get her kids off the mulch. She should have been embarrassed! I would say it was obvious she gave no *behavior instructions* to the kids before setting them loose as she enjoyed shopping for plants.
Discipline is VERY important...it just doesn't have to involve striking a child. I think the best way is talking to the child and a punishment involving the loss of something they like. I do agree that many of us older folks were spanked and certainly weren't damaged for life by having been so. A little "pop" on the butt of a 2-3 yr old often scares them more than hurts them. Still...I think its hard to explain to a child why adults can hit and they can't.
I agree with Phil though...although I can only remember being spanked once, some of the things I see kids do in public (stores, restaurants, etc.) APPALLS ME! I would have been "killed" for doing such things! Running and shouting in stores, playing with merchandise, etc. I would never have even THOUGHT about it much less done it. It does seem that many young kids today have NO discipline.
Just this weekend I was at a garden center and I saw two kids running hellbent for a massive mound of mulch. (hehe...alliteration!) I knew what they were going to do...and sure 'nuff they scaled the mountain and started playing and throwing the mulch. I thought to myself..."I would have been killed for doing that!" Where was the parent? Off browsing plants not giving one thought to where her kids were and what they doing. The garden shop owner had to come out and find the mother and ask her to get her kids off the mulch. She should have been embarrassed! I would say it was obvious she gave no *behavior instructions* to the kids before setting them loose as she enjoyed shopping for plants.
Trapper7
Loves VFT's!
Some of you suggested that Scott do something different next time,instead of spanking,but he said that his daughter is not fazed by the other stuff,like taking toys away or no dinner,and whatever,so what is he supposed to do?Also I'm just wonder(not trying to be mean here)but TunaSuprise if you don't want to participate in this discusion then why did you even post here in this thread saying that you didn't want to participate?That just didn't make sense to me
Also Phil,you know your username...I think you spelled your name wrong,lol.I think it would be a great idea if Scott bought his daughter a VFT or even just let her help out with the plants!I think she would definetly understand then that they are special,and not for picking cause they are much prettier and nicer when still alive.Yeah,teach her everything from what kind of water to use to medium and all the other fun stuff.I totally agree with that idea!Good luck!Scott,have you talked about this with your wife yet?*Niki*(Trapper7)
One reason my wife was so upset is that she didn't see anything but the aftermath. Rather than let me deal with it, she whisked the kids away, to play Good Cop. My older daughter lied and said i spanked her, too, for no reason. So my wife thought I was out of control.
I wasn't going to spank her until she lied to me. That is what brought it over the edge.
I found out about my older daughter's lying to my wife too long after the fact to spank, so I gave her the "I am *very* disappointed and hurt" speech. She's 5.5, pretty empathic, so that's all i needed to have her in tears and running to tell Mommy the truth.
The younger one doesn't get that yet. She doesn't understand any real world consequences except those imposed by us. And, in my experience, she is unaffected by times-out and loss of toys. It takes her too long to notice she is being punished, and by the time she does, she's forgotten why.
And I do allow them to help with the plants, such as they're able.
Neither of them has a carnivorous plant of their own yet... we're still working on keeping small pots of grass alive.
I wasn't going to spank her until she lied to me. That is what brought it over the edge.
I found out about my older daughter's lying to my wife too long after the fact to spank, so I gave her the "I am *very* disappointed and hurt" speech. She's 5.5, pretty empathic, so that's all i needed to have her in tears and running to tell Mommy the truth.
The younger one doesn't get that yet. She doesn't understand any real world consequences except those imposed by us. And, in my experience, she is unaffected by times-out and loss of toys. It takes her too long to notice she is being punished, and by the time she does, she's forgotten why.
And I do allow them to help with the plants, such as they're able.
Neither of them has a carnivorous plant of their own yet... we're still working on keeping small pots of grass alive.
unknownclown
BoooOOOOooooo!!!!!
Well since the issue is not about spanking but whether you and your wife agree on the punnishment. I suppose I could suggest that you send your kid somewhere on a time out that is NOT her room or somewhere she will play, but before you send her let her know that you and mommy will be discussing punnishment. Let the kid stew while you and your wife agree whats propper. Its old fashioned but lets face it some of the good old fashioned punnishments have been lost thru time. This way your wife is included on the decissions of punnishment to save the peace in the house. Kids shouldnt have to hear mommy and daddy arguing over parenting problems it separates the household and taking sides on whos the good and bad parent takes place. Remember you and your wife are a team! You not consulting her has left her out of the decission making so that could be part of the reason she is angry.
unknownclown
BoooOOOOooooo!!!!!
One more thing I can suggest. Kids love to pick flowers!!! they love to give them away to show you that they love you and its so adorable! who were they picking them for anyways?
Have you told them that the plants send up flowers because this is they way that plants make seed that eventually turn into babies? Kids so love babies Im sure thatll get their attention!
Since its still early in the year you could also get a bunch of sweet pea seed and have them make thier own flowers for picking. I love sweat peas cause they smell so nice, they are also very colorful for the kids and either they can string them up and learn how plants take work to grow or they can make great hanging plants.
Have you told them that the plants send up flowers because this is they way that plants make seed that eventually turn into babies? Kids so love babies Im sure thatll get their attention!
Since its still early in the year you could also get a bunch of sweet pea seed and have them make thier own flowers for picking. I love sweat peas cause they smell so nice, they are also very colorful for the kids and either they can string them up and learn how plants take work to grow or they can make great hanging plants.
Let me tell you a little story....
When I was very small, I have always wnated to be a gardner on TV(and this is while I was living in Bosnia, meaning I was 7 and below) I also LOVED plants(and still do) and I also loved picking flowers. Whenever there was a pretty flower, on the balcony or by the roadside, Id pick it.
Nothing on grandmas balcony could blooom properly without being picked.
But one day that all changed.
My stepdad came along, and I picked some lipa flowers(very beautiful tree which produces masses of fragrant flowers) and I went and showed it to him.
He then said: "Did you know that that flower is dead?" And he explained why it was dead and wouldnt survive and all that, from that day on I have NEVER picked a single flower. EVER.
When I was very small, I have always wnated to be a gardner on TV(and this is while I was living in Bosnia, meaning I was 7 and below) I also LOVED plants(and still do) and I also loved picking flowers. Whenever there was a pretty flower, on the balcony or by the roadside, Id pick it.
Nothing on grandmas balcony could blooom properly without being picked.
But one day that all changed.
My stepdad came along, and I picked some lipa flowers(very beautiful tree which produces masses of fragrant flowers) and I went and showed it to him.
He then said: "Did you know that that flower is dead?" And he explained why it was dead and wouldnt survive and all that, from that day on I have NEVER picked a single flower. EVER.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
lol[b said:
i've never been spanked by my parents. (not to say they shouldn't have at times) my parents belive in rewarding me when i do something right, but once i do something wrong everything come tumbling down (every privelage except breathing, school and maybe eating (kidding)) is taken away. They work by the "more you give them the more they'll work to not disappoint you" way of thinking. Those are just my parents. I don't think scott did anything wrong, it's just his way (being a parent) to discipline his child. I don't think its abuse either.
I think you're expecting too much from a 3-year old. They process things differently.
Now that you're aware of what can happen, make sure important blooms are safe by moving them. My daughter has always liked picking flowers and an orchid occasionally appeared in the bunches of flowers she'd give her mother. But, after the first time, the person who deserved punishment for one of the orchids being within her reach was me. Over the years I told her which flowers she could have or not have and, when she's uncertain, she asks. Now she can reach almost anything I can and never picks an orchid.
Now that you're aware of what can happen, make sure important blooms are safe by moving them. My daughter has always liked picking flowers and an orchid occasionally appeared in the bunches of flowers she'd give her mother. But, after the first time, the person who deserved punishment for one of the orchids being within her reach was me. Over the years I told her which flowers she could have or not have and, when she's uncertain, she asks. Now she can reach almost anything I can and never picks an orchid.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
That proverb about, "spare the rod and spoil the child" doesn't necessarily mean breaking out a rod or a switch or a belt. The meaning behind it is that a parent NEEDS to do appropriate discipline and the child needs that appropriate discipline. Different things for different kids, though, as we all know that every kid is different.
FlytrapGurl
apple rings.. what more can i say?
[b said:
So you're saying he should've waited until she was 12 to punish her for it? No. If three is old enough to lie, three is old enough to know what "don't" means. I remember a couple times I was spanked when I was three. I knew why I was being spanked. It's better to spank at 3 then at a later age, because it works better on little kids. Spanking does not, however, EVER work on a preteen or teenager. I know this. If I was spanked now, it wouldn't mean half a crap to me, because it wouldn't bother me and would make me even more defiant. But when you're three, it works, because when you're three, pain is at the top of your list of things you do not want to experience, and just a spank isn't going to inflict much pain, but enough for you to know what you did was wrong. It's the only thing that's going to work when you're three. An intellectual conversation about what you did and why you should not have done it is not going to work.
[b said:
[b said:
<span style='color:red'>EDIT:</span> The first part of this post is not meant to imply that one thing will work for all kids, because all kids are different and just because something works with one kid doesn't mean it will work with another. You need to KNOW your kids and KNOW what will work on them and what's just going to make them virtually hate you. And what worked when a child was 3 isn't going to work when he/she is a teenager. Trust me, my grandmother still thinks whomping me when she gets pissed is actually going to faze me, when it really doesn't. I've sprained joints, broken a bone, hit nerves and hurt like hell for weeks, split my head open, busted nowhere-near-loose teeth out, fallen off a horse, gotten the wind knocked out of me many times, punched concrete walls repeatedly, and obtained various scars from various other things. A finger-punch in the shoulder or a whomp in the back of the head is not going to faze me.
And denial of dinner is not going to do anything for some older kids. I don't rely on my grandparents for food. Sure, I eat what they make for dinner if it's something I'll eat, but half the time, I make my own dinner. And I know there are several people way younger than me that can already make their own dinner.
And some kids/teens are "impossible" when it comes to punishing. Literally nothing fazes them except slack from parents. I know that's how it is with me. My grandparents think taking away priveledges, like horseback riding or computer, is going to make me respect them or pay attention to the BS they give me about myself, when it's not going to make me respect them or strive to please them any more. All they need to do is cut me a little slack and respect me as a person and let me be myself without looking down their noses at me and everybody else who does anything different than them, and they'd get respect from me and maybe we'd treat each other like human beings. But that's not how it is with them. They are freakin' SURE that their methods - disrespect; screaming vulgarities; taking away all priveledges because my grades aren't all As but, in fact, some Bs; threatening to "knock my teeth out" (yeah, well, who's gonna pay for the orthodontic repairs? Ain't gonna be ME!) - are going to work on me, but they're just.. not. They never have and they don't. The way it would work with me is by treating me like a person who has opinions, beliefs and SOME experience with life and at least TRYING to hear me out and have intelligent conversations with me. But they're never going to hear me out long enough to understand that, so I guess it's just gonna have to be a war of the worlds until I move out.
Anyway, my point is, you have to know your kids and know what works on them. If spanking works, fine. If necessary, spank. If taking things/priviledges away works, fine. If necessary, take things/privileges away. If timeouts work, fine. If necessary, do timeouts. It's really all about understanding your kids.
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jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Sorry, but I do not have time to go through all of this. Scott you punished her to teach her a lesson, not to cause her pain. That is the right thing to do. I have to deal with too many people that did not learn consequence as children, now the courts have to teach them. Punishment does not mean beating, they are two different things.
I also prefer to punish by removal of a privilege, but sometimes, especially when the child is young, a spanking has a much longer and more meaningful effect. It means daddy is unhappy with me and the wrong is unlikely to be repeated anytine soon.
I also prefer to punish by removal of a privilege, but sometimes, especially when the child is young, a spanking has a much longer and more meaningful effect. It means daddy is unhappy with me and the wrong is unlikely to be repeated anytine soon.
