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Hooray for our legal system

  • Thread starter Pyro
  • Start date
  • #61
Aprihl,

if you lived in a neighborhood where people are brandishing weapons all over the place, then I am happy you moved. That is not a place a truly responsible gun owner would feel comfortable. You probably have no idea who the responsible gun owners are that live and work with you, they don't feel it is a an empowerment or to make up for something they are lacking in other areas, it is a tool that they maintain, train, and will use if neccessary. Every responsible gun owner I know spends time at the range every year to keep their training up, they maintain their weapons impeccably, and have never uttered a word about their weapons, outside hunting discussions, to anyone who didn't ask. Don't assume that because someone owns a gun we want to live in a neighborhood full of them. Only a fool would want that. There are three people I trust in the world to hold a gun around me and not hurt me, one is my Dad, the other is my Brother, and the third is Me. actually, there is a 4th.

As for killing an intruder being murder, Starman, that is your perspective, and your welcome to it. I think it is narrowminded, but I can respect your opinion. Just think on this. If someone breaks into your home to steal your TV, what is more important to you as the defendero f your home? What he came to get? or what he is potentially armed with in order to make sure he gets it? People who are willing to invade your home have allready shown they lack a certain moral charachter. I wouldn't trust them to take what they want and leave quietly for all the world.

And as for having my modified bat, you think a Gun exists without intent to kill? If a judge asked me why I modified my bat, I would simply say "In order to inflict the maximum amount of damage in the shortest period possible. My goal is to render the intruder harmless by any means neccessary in order to protect my family." while smearing an intruders head with a bat seems far more horrible and violent than shooting someone with a gun, is it really? the outcome is the same, both intents are the same.

You are judgeing the action, not the result. The result is protection of ones home and family. One of my loved ones has been violent act, that tends to change your perspective on acceptable levels of violence when it comes to self defense.
 
  • #62
I think that I agree with everything that you just said in your last post. I especially agree with you about using your bat. However if the unthinkable ever happened, my opinion won't mean anything. It's up to the DA, and then a jury.
 
  • #63
I too agree with all that RamPuppy has said. Which I guess means I agree with Ozzy... Which isn't possible. Ozzy has got to be wrong right? I mean. ...I'm pretty sure he's a big ole trouble maker. hahahahaha jking witcha OzzMan!!
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  • #64
luckily I live in texas.
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  • #65
I heard a comedian, Ron White, say that in Texas it is illegal to shoot somebody in the back for any reason. He then said "Yeah, but I can shoot them in the legs until they turn around"
 
  • #66
RamPup, I am thouroughly shocked. You said you were monster size. And you use a bat?? What is wrong with your hands that you can't use them? You think you need an equalizer? From your size, the other guy better have a bazooka! And yet, I have trained in martial arts for 41 years. And I KNOW that I could put you face down on the ground in no time, and pin you with a wristlock and hold you for an indefinite amount of time. And I am 150 pounds, and 5' 8" tall. It isn't size, and it isn't weapons that win, but your own attitude. All my sensei's, all Japanese and Chinese, all had the same message. Simply put, it was, Cooler heads prevail. And that is true. If you don't panic, and can be objective, you will probably come out on top. As an example, I was working in Fremont, California. Gang central around here. I had stopped in a remote area during work to break for my lunch. As I usually do, I got out of my truck top take a short walk, and stretch my legs. I also practice my martial arts breathing techniques. I was walking along doing this when three teenage punks came out of the brush when I walked by. The older kid (17?) had a little silver .25 auto. His partners of course had to swagger over their show of "force" and just knew they held all the aces. Mr. 17 held his little gun like he was the king. He was. The King of Stupid. I held my hands up palms out, maybe 8"from my head on each side, and said, "What do you want?" Dumbo with the piece says, "give us your cash, and maybe we will let you live, old man." I told him I was broke, and didn't have any money. He called me a liar (which I was where the money was concerned) and put that little piece right up to my nose. Just like a movie. Except real. Training everyday and doing many breathing and mental excercises gave me an edge. I was looking for the split second when he was off guard. See, he had the gun, and in weilding the gun, was absolutely sure he was "De Man!", and totally in charge. I shook my left hand out to the left, and it caught his attention long enough to do what I had to. I used a throw on him called kote gaeshi. Too hard to explain the mechanics of it, so suffice it to say, I swept the left hand back towards my head, and grabbed the gun hand , pushing it farther right. I then moved to my left, and by utilizing a simple wrist manipulation, his feet clock springed, and ended pointing straight up in the air. I brought him down on his head, rolled him face down, locked his elbow and kept it locked with my knee, touched certain nerves in his hand, and now I owned his gun. His two friends could just look terrified and stammer. I added a little twist to the wrist, and now I owned this guy too. Though it was only nerve manipulation, and the stretching and hyperextension of ligaments and tendons, the pain is so intense, you are sure you are dead! This guy was sure I was going to kill him, and the crying and the blubbering that he came out with, made me sick. If you can't handle it, don't start it. I put his gun to his head and asked him if he was stupid, or just practicing to be stupid. All I got was please don't kill me, it was so and so's idea, all kinds of crap. I popped the clip on the gun, and threw it into a small river next to the spot we were at. His two partners ran away!!!! Great friends to have if your ever in trouble! I then backed away from the "crier" on the ground. He stood up, scared as hell. "What are you going to do?" "I am going to tell you one thing, a**bite, if I ever see you walking the streets, I may finish the job. You ever approach me again, You will never have to worry about anything ever again, except the coffin that carries you." He left runnin', but not before asking for his gun back! He asked, I lifted it and pointed it at him and said, "Come and get it." He suddenly didn't want it anymore. I figured that out when he split, running like crazy.
I had no weapon except for what I took from the jerk. I had nothing but the training I do everyday. My own self, my body, and my mind, have been trained to respond to situations like these from simple training. And anyone can get that training. I heartily reccommend any type of jiu jitsu training as it is the most complete martial art out there. All the other Japanese arts were taken out of Jiu-jitsu forms. Karate, judo, etc. So study the one that is the most well rounded art I have ever found. Try it. You may find the weapon unnecessary. YOU are the weapon.
 
  • #67
Thank you, Bugweed. I only got to brown belt in Kenpo. I could put a lot of people's faces in the ground for a while, but not yours, LOL! I keep meaning to pick up Kenpo again, but I haven't been able to find any Senseis out here. The thing I liked about Kenpo was that the humiliation of your attacker was a big part of the deal. That, and fighting with sticks and knives and whatever else is handy. I may end up with Tai Chi..which is a devastating art, when it's sped up.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]if you lived in a neighborhood where people are brandishing weapons all over the place, then I am happy you moved. That is not a place a truly responsible gun owner would feel comfortable. You probably have no idea who the responsible gun owners are that live and work with you, they don't feel it is a an empowerment or to make up for something they are lacking in other areas

Oh, I very respectfully disagree. So many gun freaks I know seem to be using guns to compensate for something they lack. Joe Gangbanger has a gun because he feels powerless without it. If one really is into killing..why not use a knife? It's up-close and personal! It takes more testicles to stick a knife in someone, and twist it, than to pull the trigger from 10 or 20 feet away, I'd bet. The responsible gun owners I know don't feel a need to brag about how they'd kill a burglar, or even talk about the fact that they have guns. I know they have guns. I'm not impressed, guns are easy to get in a big city..I could walk out the front gate in my old place and get a .38 with filed serial numbers for $100, any time, day or night. Filed serials and a silencer of some sort for $350. Having lived in a gun culture for 25+ years, I find that now I really cannot stand it. It's evil. It's all about death. Try though one may to put a spin on it...guns are made to kill things with. Handguns are made to kill people with.
 
  • #68
This is really absurd.  The only gun that offers any protection in the middle of the night is a readily accessible, loaded gun.

So some day the kid wants to show it off to a friend and maybe it's a 10,000 to one longshot, but someone ends up hurt or dead.  So you say your kid doesn't know about it.  If it's accessible enough to be useful the kid will find it someday.  OK, so you've taught your kid to treat guns with respect.  But kids are irrational, especially when there are other kids to impress.  Or maybe someone comes home full of adolescent anguish about the hopelessness of life, the universe, and everything.  Or spouses have a fight.  And someone thinks of that gun.  Maybe the person would be thinking more clearly after spending the time to unlock the gun, go elsewhere to get the ammunition and then load the gun.  But the king of the suburban frontier just had to keep it loaded right there next to the bed.
 
  • #69
[b said:
Quote[/b] (herenorthere @ May 28 2005,8:46)]But the king of the suburban frontier just had to keep it loaded right there next to the bed.
I have been struggling with how to reconcile these two goals, myself.  I used to be very anti-handgun, and now am moderately pro-handgun, but am VERY concerned about children and guns.

I believe an unlocked, loaded, accessible gun is a far greater threat to my children than the possibility of a home invasion.

For this reason, despite my attitudes on guns, I currently own no firearms.  But I do keep a katana next to my bed, and another upstairs in my office.
 
  • #70
[b said:
Quote[/b] (schloaty @ May 27 2005,2:29)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I cant believe so called 'great' people would willingly murder somebody.
Its MURDER for god sake! KILLING somebody for taking something that belongs to you is a bit much, and the law wont care whether it was a burglar or not!
I dont see how all of you could KILL somebody like that and live with yourselves for the rest of your life.

Starman, until you are a husband and especially a father, you CANNOT make such a statement.

I do not own a gun.  I do own a few swords & axes, but they're not really accessible.  I, however, have two black belts (working towards another promotion in one of them), and will thoroughly annihilate anyone who breaks into my house.  I don't care if it's a teenager.  Done.  This person is a direct threat to the safety of my family, and if I go to jail for it, so be it.

Now, this may make me seem like a violent person.  I am not.  I have not reacted with violence to any situation since a was a young child.  That's 25 years or so without a fight, including my teenage years.  The idea of hurting another person, let alone killing them, in abhorent to me, but if it's them or me/my family, it will definately be them.  I will leave nothing to chance.
Well............whats wrong with wounding or restraining the person untill the police arrive? Why do you have to kill them?
A lot of this thread people have been talking about guns and the best way to KILL a burglar, why on earth do you HAVE to kill them?

Well you would be very surprised indeed at the laws here.........if you injure a burglar, let alone kill him while hes in your house, you get years in jail or you have to do 70 od hours cummunity service.
Currently, people are protesting to bring in laws to allow the house residents to restrain and/or injure the burglar untill the police arrive, and I FULLY support that.............but killing the burglar intentionally is something I will NEVER support.

Rampuppy..........where does it say I would let them walk out wiht my belongings just like that?
 
  • #71
Lol you do know with enough concentration you can get up from a tazer shot right? Thats partially why they train police (involunterry shock). I thought it was very amuzing when my couzin had to do it. They tazered him and so he fell the ground then ripped the tongs out and got up like nothing happened. The guy tazering him was shocked but the tazer instructor said yeah that can happen expecially if the person feels their life is threatened.
 
  • #72
I've been shocked with a stun gun, not really that bad. If I was mad or scared, I don't even think it would phase me at all.
There is a huge difference between a stun gun and a tazer.
 
  • #73
Yeah but Ozzy notice I said Tazer. They are more effective on smaller people just because of body mass but my cousin isn't really big I mean yeah hes a cop but he's only 6 foot or so and quite thin. He can throw around most people preaty well though.
Anyway Starman the whole ntent of guns is shoot to kill. Which is why you unload the entire clip into the person, reload and do it again. They had better not be moving after that. You will probibly miss a few times, thats why you reload. You definatly don't want them getting up as you wait for the cops.
 
  • #74
Starman, The reason that you shoot to kill is because an injured man is extremely dangerous. If you shoot a man in his leg, you never know if he has a gun hidden on him somewhere. While you're dialing 911, he could pull the gun and shoot you. The whole reason you shoot him is to stop him from hurting or killing you or your family. I don't want to kill anybody but if there is somebody in my house I have to assume that he is armed and intends to do harm to me or my family. I think you believe that we are talking about shooting anybody that enters on site without any warnings. I don't think most of us mean it that way. If I see that his hands are empty I would tell him to lay on the floor face down. If he makes any fast movement toward his pockets, ect. I will shoot. I'm not going to give him a chance by shooting in the leg. He has made the decision to enter my house, He put me in the spot where I may have to kill him. I didn't ask for him to threaten me by reaching for what I have to assume is a weapon. So why should I put myself or my family in more danger by shooting him in the leg.
 
  • #75
Besides if you shoot him in the leg he will probibly assume you mean to kill him (I definatly would no matter if you were calling the cops, but since I don't break and enter I would not be in any position where the person who shot me would be calling the cops). He would probibly try to do something to save himself. Probibly attack you.

So Bugweed you took up martial arts nearly the same time as cping? I must have missed tht part in the Savage Garden. What chapter was that in again?

Ever notice it always seems to be dumb male teenagers who do these things? I wonder how they can be so stupid. Underdeveloped brains but I don't see 5 year olds saying "I'm going to break into your house".
 
  • #76
Buy a shotgun; a double barrel; just that aiming at them will make him/her pee their pants. It doesn't matter what load you use; even small bird shot at the distance you'd be using it at is just as lethal; and won't penetrate walls.
 
  • #77
I like the "new" (as of 3 years ago). weapon designed for the military. If you know what company it is you can buy it privately. I of course don't actually like guns (any more anyway) and would not pay that much money for one anyway. That or an MP-40. Historical permit of course.
 
  • #78
The sound of the gun being cocked always stops me dead cold.  I know those sounds, and they always put a chill right through me...even if I'm out on a shooting range.

The sound of a Butterfly knife being worked also stops me dead in my tracks.
 
  • #79
April, I know where you used to live.  I can honestly say that if I had lived where you used to live that I would not be typing this response right now as I would be dead. I doubt you would disagree.
 
  • #80
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But the king of the suburban frontier just had to keep it loaded right there next to the bed.

Exactly. God save us from the Kings of the Suburban Frontier.  My sister, who is a certifiable gun nut..keeps a .45 in the nightstand by her bed.  In a zippered container, in the drawer of the nightstand.  So, god forbid, she's jumped by a guy in her apartment. She's going to have the time to open the drawer, unzip the container, and shoot him?  Give me a break. She'd be better off with a baseball bat! I'm all for self defense! I'm all for baseball bats! Louisville Sluggers rock.

I have a printing press roller that I keep in my car. Rubber on the outside, solid steel on the inside. Doesn't leave marks, just deep and debilitating muscle tears and bruises. Got it from a friend who's a Chicago Cop. It's my equaliser.

I was talking to Dan today, and if we had anything worth stealing...we'd protect it and ourselves with a big mean dog or two, and an alarm and surveillance system. Right now, since we don't have a dang thing worth stealing...we lock our doors and windows...the biggest deterrent is that most of the neighbor's wives are home all day, and they are vigilant. Aprilh
 
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