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Remember that medical marijuana debate awhile back

  • Thread starter Finch
  • Start date
  • #21
yeh. How much rights should states have?


Back at the begginig of our country each state had the right to declare war independantly and have its own currency. But the question today is how far can states go from the set national standard.
 
  • #22
Hehehe Finch, most people want to expand states rights when they approve of the idea a state supports, and narrow them when they disapprove.

Historically, people wanted states rights to maintain patriarchical and white-supremacist societies. But then topics like assisted suicide, medical marijuana and the like have come up, and the opinions on state's rights flip-flopped faster than a pancake at IHOP. It's rather comical to watch, and I have to admit I'm guilty as well.

However, philosophically, I support states rights except insofar as they contradict the US Constution and its guaranteed rights.

Capslock
 
  • #23
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Capslock @ June 07 2005,3:50)]But then topics like assisted suicide, medical marijuana and the like have come up, and the opinions on state's rights flip-flopped faster than a pancake at IHOP.
LOL! true, very true. i guess i would rather see the states have the say in areas like medical marijuana, assisted suicide, gay marrages ect, basically i feel it will do more good in the long run. its issues like these that tend to tear appart the nation. its more likely the voice of the ppl will be heard during the elections in that state rather than our federal Senate and House doing the "will of the ppl". leave it up to the ppl of the individual state to decide. the Federal government should be basically for protecting the saftey of the country as a whole from other nations, and to step into states rights and the rights of individuals when only absolutly nessisary. i guess i view less government as a good thing.
 
  • #24
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Hehehe Finch, most people want to expand states rights when they approve of the idea a state supports, and narrow them when they disapprove.
Funny, thats the EXACT thing I was just going to say!

But if we started to divide up by state with every conterversial topic that came our way, eventually we would be the 'Divided States of Amarica', as opposed to the United States of America, and as we well know divisions breed internal conflict, and conceivibly the mojority states will try and get the minority states under their influence. But ivenn if that occured, it would be the majority of the country deciding, so in a way it is still the will of the people, even if individual states got knocked in the process. Im not Sayin that i like or approve such tactics, but im just trying to think of the results. Anyway if such thinmgs like the above scenario occured, eventually we might end up right back where we started.
 
  • #25
Some of my friends who also have multiple sclerosis, use marijuana to alleviate their symptoms. I smoked plenty of pot in my younger days, recreationally.  I loved it. I just don't like the buzz anymore, and my symptoms, at this point, are not severe enough to warrant pot smoking. If they get severe enough where smoking pot wiil help.....I will smoke pot.  No gov't. agency will stop me. I know where the stop-n-cops are in Chicago.

Funny how some of a certain political persuasion believe in small government, and state's rights...until it butts up against their perceived "morality."
 
  • #26
no morality issues here, i would prefer, for the most part for any government(state, federal or otherwise) to just but out of *MY* personal life. if i want to self medicate with a plant i grew myself, who am i harming and what buissiness is it of anyones but my own? personal freedom is what makes this nation great. the various governments have forgotten that.
 
  • #27
Imho states rights should supercede federal law in all cases unless they are in conflict with the constitution and the basic unalieable rights of all human beings.
 
  • #28
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Finch @ June 07 2005,6:19)]But if we started to divide up by state with every conterversial  topic that came our way, eventually we would be the 'Divided States of Amarica', as opposed to the United States of America, and as we well know divisions breed internal conflict
Hahaha bipartisan system lololol. I love politics.
~Joe
 
  • #29
I agree with the supreme courts ruling. It was quite interesting.
 
  • #30
Common sense should dictate here. If an individual who is terminally ill or an individual who is forced to address chronic pain management issues derives any comfort whatsoever from pot, regardless of whether it is real or perceived, let them have it and let them have it legally. I view pot as a coping tool.  I don't smoke pot and never have but if you want to, you should be allowed to do so in my humble opinion. Victimless crime not so dissimilar from prostitution.

I believe there to exist considerable merit to what D muscipula stated, “In fact, i expect it will be much cheaper (both in terms of lives and in terms of money) to legalize it because it can then be taxed and regulated, much like cigarettes.”  To this I would like to add that I find it absolutely ridiculous what we are paying to incarcerate repeated and habitual recreational users of pot.

Pot is not so dissimilar from Corn Gluten Meal. I truly believe there to exist a considerable amount of validitiy to this statement by swords, “Seriously though, Marijuana will NEVER be considered a legitimate drug. This is because to be a legitimate medicine that is of value to the drug companies (which means it is able to be patented) it must be at least 30% man made chemicals with rigid ability to control the quality.” This, and this alone may be the root of why pot is not and may not be legalized any time in the foreseeable future.
 
  • #31
it's funny how all the bible pushers in the government don't like pot even though in the bible it says something along the lines of god put all herbs on earth for men...

and the rasta's think a marjuana plant was growing on Solomon's (sp?) grave.

any one watch the daily show last night? some lady said something like "where do you draw the lines on drugs?" and John Stewart said something like "well if my doctor tells me to..."
 
  • #32
I have several friends that use medical marijuana. I to smoke on occasion just for kicks. I dont drink or do any other drugs.
And I dont see any harm in getting high and relaxing a bit every now and then. It is my body right?

I personally believe that the main reason the government isnt legalizing it is because they make too much money off it being illegal. Think about all the money used for "The war on drugs". They target marijuana more often than any of the other drugs. I read somewhere that around 75% of the nations prisons population are marijuana related. Look at drug testing, most dangerous drugs are through your system(and undetectable) with in days where as marijuana can be found weeks later after one use.  

The government seems to believe that if it is legalized there will be increases in youth usage, DUI, and etc.
If you start looking at nations where its legal they less usuage in minors, less crime for that matter because its off the black market. They talk about how marijuana is a gateway drug I believe that is because the access to other drugs from the same shady people.

If you ask the average teen if they know where to find some marijuana most are going to say sure. But ask the same teen if they can get cigarettes or beer and your going to get a no. I think it should be legal (recreational and medical)because the only way they are going to be able to have any real control is if it's out in the open and out of the back alleys.

Anyway didnt mean to rant but somethings just get under my skin. Here's the best medical marijuana site there is feel free to check it out.
http://www.norml.org/
 
  • #33
i agree, in high school marijuana was much easier to get my hands on than booze on any given day. as to it being a gateway drug i think you nailed it fudog, as to increase in usage, no not really going to happen. you would see it more as ppl who do use it wouldnt be hiding it anymore. you would be surprised who all smokes pot.

also you have to figure not every one likes being high. my wife legally has access to some excellent narcotics that she uses to help control her migraines(actually the narcotics are generally a last ditch effort to avoid the emergancy room) she hates feeling stoned, she tried marijuana in high school and hated it. i have friends who really didnt care for the high either and only tried it one or two times. just like ppl choose to avoid tobacco and alcohol even though they are legal so to would they avoid marijuana. the increase in overal number of ppl using it would increase maybe quite abit a first but as soon as the "newness" wore off you would probably only be left with a slight incress overall.

as to driving stoned. you can tell who is stoned and driving around here as they are generally putzing around at a whopping 15 miles an hour and jamming to some tunes
 
  • #34
[b said:
Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ June 08 2005,10:01)]it's funny how all the bible pushers in the government don't like pot even though in the bible it says something along the lines of god put all herbs on earth for men...

and the rasta's think a marjuana plant was growing on Solomon's (sp?) grave.
That's not even the half of it. You should read how they crowned the kings of Israel.

As to your comment about driving, rattler, I actually came across several studies on marijuana use and driving safety back when I did a social studies paper on prohibition. I don't remember who they were done by, but I think it was a joint thing between the US and Canadian traffic safety authorities.
Anyways, the conclusion of the studies was that people who were high on pot behaved with greater caution and took less risks than even sober drivers, and that the change in behavior usually more than offset any loss in physical dexterity or attention. People driving under the influence of marijuana were much safer than those who had been drinking or using other recreational drugs.
Some time after I did that paper, I came across some secondary literature that claimed that marijuana use left more people capable of driving than over the counter cold medications such as Benadryl or Robitussin, or even driving sober and tired. I never looked into the cited sources, but I would tend to believe it, having driven under all of those conditions at one time or another. (Remember, kids - DRIVING WHILE NOT PERFECTLY HEALTHY AND ALERT = BAD IDEA. I totalled a car after taking a DayQuil, and I'm still feeling stupid about it.)
~Joe
 
  • #35
rattler & seedjar
I completely agree with you on the driving. It doesn't bother me to drive stoned. I drive the limit and pay more attention.(paranoia is a good thing)
I've gotten a total of 3 tickets for speeding all stone sober.
 
  • #36
ratteler, its not just your personal buisness because your actions affect others around you, altough im thinking of othr things like dumping bad moter oil into a stream that just appens to run rough your property, than pot.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ] to increase in usage, no not really going to happen


I disagree, because there is a large amount of evidence that when restricted a substance consumption will decrese as opposed to when its perfectly legal. Look at the prohibition. Yes, it was stupid, and yes, it didnt even remotely acheive its goal, but study of a large amout of evidence shows that per indiidual, and for the population, overall aclchohaul consumption did decrese (despite what popular opinion beleives) and after they lifted the ban spiked dramaticly before decresing slightly nd leviling off at a overall higher level than before.
 
  • #37
when it comes down to it, marijuana is a far far cry from having even the dangers of alcohol, it was originally outlawed because timber companys and petrochemical companies didnt want it around cause it would make a dent in their profits. when they set out to make it illegal only an extreamly small percentage of the population knew it could get you high, heck it was growing wild on the banks of the Potomac River in Washington DC when the year they set out to make it illegal. now we cant use the stuff for medicinal purposes because the drug companys cant synthisize the stuff and make it as effective as the natural so they cant make a buck so they are going to keep it from passing on a federal level to protect their pocket books by keeping us from being able to do what we have done since we lived in caves: TO TREAT OURSELVES! what i do in my house is no ones buisness but my own if i am not hurting anyone. please explain how injesting a plant i can grow myself while i am home alone can possibly hurt anyone but myself?

(sorry to break off now but i have about 7 hours to get some sleep before a 10 hour drive tomorrow. i do not know if the hotel i am at has internet access so i may not beable to log on till Monday morning)
 
  • #39
yes thats what they claim but thats not what history shows. The claim that you cant huyrt anyone but yourself on pot is really beyond my comprehension because, well your high and your judgement is inpaired. I know mof many cases where the high was just enough to push people over the edge and they beat family members.
 
  • #40
I'd venture to say that the likelihood of resorting to violence when drunk is about a thousand times higher than the likelihood of resorting to violence when high on marijuana. I've never seen anyone violent due to marijuana intoxication. Lazy and unmotivated? Yes, but not beligerent or violent the way alcohol makes a lot of people.

It is an intoxicant, however, and as such responsible people use moderation, just like they do with coffee or alcohol.

Max
 
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