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Remember that medical marijuana debate awhile back

  • Thread starter Finch
  • Start date

Finch

Whats it to ya?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Federal authorities may prosecute sick people whose doctors prescribe marijuana to ease pain, the Supreme Court ruled Monday, concluding that state laws don’t protect users from a federal ban on the drug.

The decision is a stinging defeat for marijuana advocates who had successfully pushed 10 states to allow the drug’s use to treat various illnesses.

Justice John Paul Stevens, writing the 6-3 decision, said that Congress could change the law to allow medical use of marijuana.

The closely watched case was an appeal by the Bush administration in a case involving two seriously ill California women who use marijuana. The court said the prosecution of pot users under the federal Controlled Substances Act was constitutional.


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Just remembering that old debate, and because this has sucuch a profound effect on this topic that i felt the the discussion should be revisited to discuss these new changes and their effects. No im not tryting to start a fight.lets have a good, clean discussion and no mudslinginging (es i know i mispelled that), alright? Im tired of those so called "Dabates"
 
the ppl are ruling for the most part that medical marijuana should be allowed(passed by a huge margin here in Montana) being that this country is supposed to be ruled by the ppl Congress should have to allow patient to use it if the population of said state deems it appropriate, if a states population says, no its a dangerous substance than let them keep it banned. i think the issue falls under states rights. the ppl seem to think that the controlled substance act, atleast in part, is againt their rights for recieving medical care, there for should be unconstiutional for congress to prosicute these ppl.
 
we dont do that thing by state because back when racial segregation was going on and some states banned it and and some states encouraged, it caused problems so now we dont do things like go by what a state populace wants anymore as a result of that and the conflicts it causes.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] if a states population says, no its a dangerous substance than let them keep it banned.
And what about all the pharmaceutical drugs that are causing people to have heart attacks and strokes and brain infections? Those drugs are legal and when the FDA tries to ban them the drug companies complain and throw more money at them to keep the drugs on the market. I don't know about anyone else but I will use pot if it works to allieviate the condition.
My fiance almost died because the doctors had her on the wrong medication, and when it wasn't working, they told her to take more. She ended up in the hospital, and the Dr. at the ER said that if I didn't get her in there she would have died. I honestly think that marijuana could have helped her condition.
 
I'm not rellay big on drugs, but I believe that you should be allowed to grow any plant you want as long as it's for personal use. It's just a plant for god's sake.
 
I do believe i'm in favor of legalizing marijuana, with corresponding taxes to cover the expenses to the system that abuse will create. In fact, i expect it will be much cheaper (both in terms of lives and in terms of money) to legalize it because it can then be taxed and regulated, much like cigarettes.

As for your comment CNCreefer, the unfortunate reality is that doctors make mistakes, and no medication is completely safe. The human body is just too complex. And AFAIK the FDA is actually more cautious (restrictive) than any other country's regulatory body.

Of course, the real irony is that alcohol and tobacco are legal, while marijuana is not. Talk about insidious, vicious drugs....
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (D muscipula @ June 06 2005,9:58)]alcohol and tobacco are legal, while marijuana is not.  Talk about insidious, vicious drugs....
smile_l_32.gif


Who would buy Bindweed or any other weed for that matter that grows very well in your own yard and anywhere in the U.S. or world for that matter.

A round of applause for tax greed.
smile_m_32.gif


Joe
 
Not every garden weed has those therapeutic qualities
smile_m_32.gif
 
Why not throw 'em all in jail and let the federal government pay to feed, clothe and nurse all those sick people? That'll be great for the economy! Much better than having granny growing her own arthritis medicine.

We could generate a new class of jobs: prison guard/nurses. Those kids running Abu Girab looked like a mighty caring bunch! Perfect for the job!
smile_n_32.gif


Seriously though, Marijuana will NEVER be considered a legitimate drug. This is because to be a legitimate medicine that is of value to the drug companies (which means it is able to be patented) it must be at least 30% man made chemicals with rigid ability to control the quality. This is why the fake marijuana substitutes that are man made such as Marinol (I believe that's the name of it) are completely legal alternatives in pill form that are completely worthless according to test subjects and do not treat the symptoms the same as the "real thing".
 
  • #10
Well, the issue addressed by the specific ruling was NOT whether weed should be legal....It was whether federal drug laws supercede state ones. Very different. One effects the other, but still different.

As far as medical use of pot, I am in favor. Recreational, even, so long as it's tightly controlled. Like they do with alcohol & cigarettes.

I've heard that (now Rainforrestguy will have to correct me here, if I'm wrong) weed (or Kola, as the natives call it) is the biggest cash crop of Hawaii, even though no one wants to admit it.
 
  • #11
i'm 100% for medical and recreational legalization.
it's just a plant. jeez.

while we are at it, i think all natural drugs should be legalized such as opium and LSD.

if people get messed up on anything then that's their problem AFAIK. Marijuana is safer than alcohol.

just my opinions.
 
  • #12
IIRC the reason Marinol doesnt always work is that it is basically just synthisized THC(the main thing that gets you high in marijuana), the plant itself has lots of chemicals other than just the THC, im thinking it is more than the THC that is helping with medical problems, there is either something ele or more likly iths the combined interactions of several different chemicals in the natural plant that is helping patients.

speaking from personal experiance, i used to smoke pot(stress on used, havent touched the stuff in well over 3 years), i was a high school kid experimenting with a drug i deemed safe( IE no addictive properties, no halucinations, and i would be "sober" quicker than a bender on alcohol) as a side affect i had an easier time working at my job the next day even though the "high" was long gone. my doctor said i had growing pains in my knees, turns out i have lots and lots of spurs that keep growing but i didnt find that out until later. bottom line was the marijuana helped where drugs like aleve, Tylenol 3 and such didnt do much.

fast forward to last fall, years after i quit smoking pot(Darla asked me to, took no effort on my part to give it up, she asked, i quit) anyways i go to the doc as i am sick of using perscription strength alieve  and tylenol 3s to deal with the pain. i cant work on narcotics anyways as i have a low tolerance to them. my doc gives my Celebrex, works great but had one small side effect, now my knees like popping out of joint. they hyper extend backwards and sideways, no fun, lots of pain and im laid up for atleast 6 hours if not 2 days on a bad one. not to mention all the other side effects that are supposed to go along with the pill(possibale heart attacks ect.) im about ready to go back to smoking a joint before bed, it worked well and had less side effects.

personally im with CNC, the pharmacuitical companies are against legalizing pot for medicinal on a federal level use cause it will allow individuals to medicate themselves outside of their products. its a loosing proposition for them and they have deep pockets to help prevent it
 
  • #13
[b said:
Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ June 07 2005,12:15)]i'm 100% for medical and recreational legalization.
it's just a plant. jeez.

while we are at it, i think all natural drugs should be legalized such as opium and LSD.

if people get messed up on anything then that's their problem AFAIK. Marijuana is safer than alcohol.

just my opinions.
Make sure you stomp on mushrooms too...Cops are coming to inspect your yard. No more mushrooms on pizza either! O! NO!!! What are poor rednecks suppose to do for fun? k/d

You can have alcohol but stay away from the "M", that makes sense. We do not want people looking to stupid...
 
  • #14
I smoked pot for several years, take it from experience: if it's an everyday 'habit' it will do two things: rip your lungs apart as well as a cigarette and make you LAZY as hell (demotivational syndrome as they call it).
Quite frankly though, I don't see why they just don't legalize it for recreational use: alcohol and tobacco are just as bad (if not worse). If people want to use it as a medication, whatever.
As far as a REAL medication: if pot in it's smokable form had to live up to the same scrutiny as ANY FDA-approved medication it would fail, and fail hard, because of it's side effects. Probably pure THC also.
 
  • #15
The reason I don't like the ruling by the Supreme Court is that they really strained to find reasoning why in this case federal law supercedes state law.

What Justice Stevens cited in writing for the majority (it was a 6-3 decision) is that the Federal Government has authority because it involves "interstate commerce". Nevermind that the defendant grew her own plants for her own use, they pretend that interstate commerce is involved so they have authority. Note that in the old days, the Federal Government realized they didn't have authority over state law in these matters, so when they decided to ban alcohol during Prohibition, they had to pass a Constitutional ammendment to do it. Why not now? Because they just make up whatever they want.

Medical marijuana laws have passed by large margins in every state that has put it to a vote. Because it makes sense. We live in a society where bored housewives are prescribed Oxycontin and Xanax every day and nobody blinks an eye, despite the fact that those are far more toxic and dangerous drugs than marijuana.

Hopefully, the politicians will realize this is something that has popular support, and we'll get a federal law giving the authority back to the states. But I'm not holding my breath on that one. In the meantime, lets hope they don't start arresting people. The pot dispensaries in my city (there are a lot) are all operating normally.

Capslock <-- reminds all kids to NOT use drugs, even pot!!! It's a bad idea!!!
 
  • #16
StifflerMichael there are other ways to ingest pot other than smoking that work quite well. one way involves heating it to very high heat which vaporizes the marijuana but the active chemicals arent really affected, basically gets rid of the tar. the other is digesting it. the stomach acids dont seem to affect the active ingredients and your intestines absorb it, though it takes a larger dose through ingestion than through smoking.

as to the "lazyness", i still had no problems working 8 hour days, week after week, so it must not affect everyone like this or it depends on your work ethic to start with. im just speaking from personal experiance. most of the ppl that i know/knew who smoked it that got lazy, were lazy to start with. those who smoked pot and had a good work ethic to start with never really go lazy except when "high", one joint before bed or in the evenings, the risidual efects carried over for my knees into the next day even though i was no longer "high". if i would have smoked before work i can see where lazyness problems could develop
 
  • #17
OK
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]i'm 100% for medical and recreational legalization.
it's just a plant. jeez.

while we are at it, i think all natural drugs should be legalized such as opium and LSD.

if people get messed up on anything then that's their problem AFAIK. Marijuana is safer than alcohol.

just my opinions.

isnt coccane from a plant too? that makes it OK? just because its from a plant doesnt make it safer than some man-made drugs. im not talking about  marijuana in particular, but there are worse plant- based drugs. I have no opinion on medicinal marijuana, but if they get messed up its nott just their problem, because often many people try to drive when high. Leagalizing marijuana but prohibiting people from driving while affected would not stop them from doing it, just look at drunk driving. Indeed, if it was legal, drugged-driving instances might increse. Im talking about if they legalized it totally as some have suggested they should do.
 
  • #18
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Finch @ June 07 2005,2:21)]OK
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]i'm 100% for medical and recreational legalization.
it's just a plant. jeez.

while we are at it, i think all natural drugs should be legalized such as opium and LSD.

if people get messed up on anything then that's their problem AFAIK. Marijuana is safer than alcohol.

just my opinions.

isnt coccane from a plant too? that makes it OK? just because its from a plant doesnt make it safer than some man-made drugs. im not talking about  marijuana in particular, but there are worse plant- based drugs. I have no opinion on medicinal marijuana, but if they get messed up its nott just their problem, because often many people try to drive when high. Leagalizing marijuana but prohibiting people from driving while affected would not stop them from doing it, just look at drunk driving. Indeed, if it was legal, drugged-driving instances might increse. Im talking about if they legalized it totally as some have suggested they should do.
yes. the coco plant should be legal aswell as mushrooms and peyote. it's original use was the natives would chew the leaves to prevent/cure high-altitude sickness.

mushrooms should be legal aswell.

there are alot of legal alternatives to illegal drugs. did you know you can eat the bishop's cap cactus aswell as the peruvian torch and some other one? all three contain pretty good amounts of mescalin and you can buy bishop's cap at homedepot or walmart.

want to hallucinate? try Salvia divinorum. totally safe. or try coleus or morning glory like the cultivar "flying saucers". even nutmeg can make you hallucinate.

want to mellow out? try hybiscus (sp?) or certain passiflora species.


no one should use legal plants as recreational drugs, but they will and there are alot of relatively safe ones. i'm not promoting drug use but people should know about alternatives.



everyone should check out erowid.com. it tells everything you'd ever want to know about any drug and has user reports, the good the bad and the ugly.

MDMA used to be used in therapy between couples, but people started abusing it.

in a country where people get VIAGRA with MEDICARE!, i should be able to smoke a joint once in awhile, say on the weekends, if i wanted to. if people research and are responsible then nothing bad will happen with anything.

one drug no one should every think about doing ever is Crystal Methamphetamine. the devil smokes that drug.

"all the grass is dead and all the gold is brown and what once was the emerald city is now a crystal town"-Return to Oz
 
  • #19
btw, most people wouldn't feel like driving when they are high on pot. they'd rather sit and eat cheesy poofs on the couch and watch tv and that's fine.
 
  • #20
on a related note, being that this is falling under states rights and such, how many other states are disobeying parts of the Patriot act? i know our governor here in Montana has been telling state agencys to not comply with anything to do with the Patriot Act if it clearly violates the US Constitution(right to privacy ect)

states rights are finally coming back into focus, good thing to, Big Brother is getting way to big IMHO
 
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