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Terrorist attack

  • #21
Oi, this is a toughy.  Everyone has truth in their statements, and that is the problem.

Both Scotty and TAW have valid points, even if those points may not exactly address one another.

At any rate, I don't know who started it, us or them, there have always been nut-jobs on both sides.

But now that it's been started, let's stop trying to assign blame, and figure out how to fix it.  There's a couple of solutions:
1) destroy the problem utterly - downside is the rest of the world might not like us very much.
2) continue on our current course of action, which though it has right NOW caused more attacks (can't expect them to sit back and let us get 'em quietly), eventually we'll get enough that the attacks will dwindle away.
3) attack the underlying cause of terrorism itself - this can only be done with education
4) comine 2 & 3.  This is the only viable solution in my book.  You have to take out what trash there is, but also prevent more trash from getting created so you don't have to keep running in circles.

And, for goodness sake, Bug is absolutely right. Let's stop being so darn dependant on their oil. Will allow us much more leverage.
 
  • #22
funny picture

all the democrats look at that.

all the republicans look at this.

funny picture

see? if everyone looks at their own picture we all have fun and no one gets hurt.
 
  • #23
I think the disconnect here is understanding the role of the Iraq invasion in the number and virulence of "terrorists." The entire Islamic world views the US with great suspicion and hostility, all the more so after we invaded a sovereign country that posed us no harm. It confirmed their fears about us, and has been a rallying point in recruiting new radicals and inflaming hatred of the US.

It's very easy to sit here in our comfortable cities with our fancy computers and totally dehumanize people who would do these things. But just consider that we've killed thousands of Iraqi civilians in our war of choice. Thousands. And yet we pass that off as trivial while we profess outrage that they've struck back and killed 50 Londoners. True, there is a difference between collateral damage and specifically targeting civilians, but that difference doesn't seem too important when it's your cousin's whole family was killed by an American cluster bomb when their only crime was living in Fallujah.

One cannot look at just one side of these conflicts. What we do in our military forays abroad DOES matter. And world opinion does matter. We had nearly everyone on our side after 9/11, and we were properly focused on the group that was responsible. But then came the idea to invade Iraq, out of bowels of the PNAC ideological thinktank, and it changed everything. We decided to use a tragedy like 9/11 to take an economic and strategic opportunity.

There are more terrorists now, not less. We are less safe now. And the enemy we face cannot be beaten by mere bombing into submission; they're too scattered, and aren't even one group any more. Nobody deserves to die from terrorists, and we are in the right on this. But it's the height of insanity to do things that create more resentment and more terrorists, and then pretend it's all OK because we're allegedly the good guys. We weren't the good guys in Iraq since civilized nations don't attack other nations unless directly threatened, and now there's something for the entire Islamic world to rally around to hate us for. Great. We don't have ourselves to thank for terrorism, but we have ourselves to thank for how many there are, and how much popular support they have.

Capslock
 
  • #24
my dad's collegue (spelling?) is from India and once he told my dad that everyone in India thinks that Americans are horrible people because we live like Gods and we have everything yet we waste it all and don't appreciate it. So i guess that's how the Islamic extremist think of us. i think they are afraid the west will pollute their culture with our sex, violance (lol) our drugs, our alcohol, our food, etc. i think they just want to protect their culture and they are willing to die for it.

their way of living (the non extremist i mean) is perfectly fine and theres nothing wrong with it, and IMO so is ours (the west) but the extremest can't see that both cultures can co-exist peacfully in a modern and civilized way. it's very very sad.

We have killed thousands in this war alone. innocent people going about their lives. theres no excuse for it what so ever. George dubbyah said he would go to war as a last effort, but he jumped right into it. it's all about oil and revenge.



the only good thing about George Dubbyah being elected twice is that he can't ever be in office again.
 
  • #25
i have chatted with some of the troops coming back from Iraq and have heard some interesting stuff about whats going on over there.

#1 Red on Red fighting, especially near the Syrian border. what this is, is "terrorists" are fighting amongst themselves in some areas. the reason? there is mixed feelings amongst them about public suicide bombings. some say it is Allahs will, some say it is wrong to kill their own ppl. remember far more innocents are being killed than americans in the bombings.

#2 the Iraqi police are really being nasty to a good portion of the terrorist types that are being caught. you think the stuff that has been reported that has gone on with American held prisoners, you should here how rough the Iraqi police are with them when they get their hands on them since its their families being indesciminatly blown up in these suicide bombings.
 
  • #26
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ChronoKiento @ July 07 2005,8:41)]I know why they attacked London now. I forgot about that whole ceremony thing, I don't watch the news often. I figured it out earlier but didn't post cuz I posted once before but it disappeared so...yeah... Anyways, someone says London hates terrorists, well who doesn't?
Some muslim communities love them(note the word some, NOT all) and Saddam Hussain was associated with them and he certanly didnt hate them
Plus theres htis muslim criminal here(forgot his name now) that sometimes holds ceremonies in the street, supporting terrorists......crazy
I think hes in prison now anyway
 
  • #27
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Some muslim communities love them(note the word some, NOT all)
Very few Muslims would support the actions of terrorists. These fanatics' ideologies have nothing to do with true Islam.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Plus theres htis muslim criminal here(forgot his name now) that sometimes holds ceremonies in the street, supporting terrorists......crazy
Abu Hamzar I think his name is - he has a hook for a hand and only one eye. It's laughable how much he says he hates Britain on the streets of London.
 
  • #28
Capslock,

How do you know that there are more terrorist's now? Have you counted them? Seen a survey that counted them?

I also do not see how you can say we are less safe now. The terrorist have to worry about being killed now, that has to give them less time to plan terrorist acts. Yes they still kill people, but how many terrorist acts have been successfully completed on U.S. soil since we began the war on terror?

It may be nice to say we are less safe now and that there are more terrorists if you dislike our current goverment and its leaders. But if you are able to look at a situation without trying to make the president look bad every possible situation it may look differently.

Wolf
 
  • #29
Wake up and smell the cappucino all you terrorist sympathizers. These animals hate you and everything you stand for. They hated you long before the Iraq war and they will hate you long after it. They would just as soon gather up all of your children and throw them in a pit and light them on fire. They are blinded by their hatrid of Jews, Western Culture and basically anything not conforming to their twisted way of thinking. (Religion of Peace my arse). You go ahead and try and negotiate with them and cottle them. Islamist terrorists are a cancer on the rest of humanity and the way to deal with them is to cut them out. Hunt them to the ends of the earth and exterminate every last one of them. Then and only then will you be safe from what amounts to nothing but scum. While you contemplate my oppinion, you can also contemplate the list of terrorist attacks below by Islamist terrorists agains Americans and our allies prior to the Iraq war and then try to tell me the Iraq war has anything whatsoever to do with it. What's even more of a laugh is you women sitting here trying to defend something that if they had their way, you wouldn't be typing on this computer, owning and growing CP or even having a driver's licens. I've spent months in that part of the world, and you can consider yourself fortunate that you were born here and not there.

JJ




February 10, 1970 Three terrorist attack EL AL passengers in a bus at the Munich Airport. One passenger dies and eleven are injured. All three terrorists are arrested.


February 21, 1970 On SwissAir flight 330, 38 passengers and 9 crew members die when a bomb explodes at the back of the plane near Zurich, Switzerland.

May 8, 1970 Nine children and three adults are killed on a school bus in Avivim, Israel. The PLO claims responsibility.

September 5, 1972 Black September terrorists kidnap Israeli athletes in Munich during the Summer Olympics. All athletes are killed during a botched rescue attempt.

April 11, 1974 A terrorist attack by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) at a Kiryat Shmona apartment in Israel results in 18 dead.

May 15, 1974 The PFLP attacks a high school in Ma'alot, Israel leaving 26 dead and 66 wounded

September 8, 1974 TWA flight 841 explodes after takeoff killing 88. Air authorities later determine a bomb exploded on the plane. Suspicion for the attack lies with Abu Nidal.

June 27, 1975 Air France flight 139 is hijacked by 8 PLO terrorists and flies to Uganda where they hold 103 passengers hostage. The Israeli's counter with what is now know as Operation Entebbe, where Israel's special forces conduct a raid of the Entebbe airport, rescuing 100 of the passengers. Three hostages and one Israeli soldier die in the rescue.

1978 Fatah terrorists kill 34 at various points along the Tel Aviv Haifa highway.

November 4, 1979 Iranian radicals seize the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and take 66 Americans hostage. Thirteen are initially released but the other 53 remain hostage until their release on January 20, 1981.

November 20, 1979 200 Islamic terrorists take control of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, taking hundreds of pilgrims hostage. Saudi and French forces retake the shrine after a deadly battle which results in more than 250 dead and 600 wounded.

September 14, 1982 Lebanese President Bashir Gemayel is assassinated in a car bomb that kills 25 others.

April 18, 1983 A suicide bomb attack by the Islamic Jihad on the United States Embassy in Beirut kills 63 and wounds another 120.

September 23, 1983 Gulf Air flight 771 from Abu Dhabi, Saudia Arabia to Karachi, Pakistan crashes into the desert after a bomb in the baggage compartment explodes, killing 117.

October 23, 1983 The Islamic Jihad sends two suicide truck bombers into the Marine Barracks and French Barracks in Beirut. The truck bomb crashing into the Marine barracks kills 241 while the French lose 58 in their attack.

November 15, 1983 A U.S. Naval Officer is assassinated by the November 17 terrorist group in Athens, Greece.

March 16, 1984 The Islamic Jihad kidnaps and kills U.S. Political Officer William Buckley in Beirut.

June 14, 1985 TWA flight 847 from Athens to Rome is hijacked by Hezbollah terrorists. 153 are held hostage for seventeen days. One passenger, a United States Navy sailor is killed by the terrorists.

October 7, 1985 The Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacking by four Palestine Liberation Front terrorists kills one U.S. citizen as his wheelchair bound body is dumped into the sea.

November 23, 1985 Egypt Air flight 648 bound for Cairo from Athens is hijacked by the terrorist group Abu Nidal. Forced to land in Malta, Egyptian commandos storm the airplane and take control, leaving 60 dead.

December 27, 1985 Two airport attacks on the same day by Abu Nidal terrorists leaves sixteen dead. 13 die in an attack at the Rome airport and three more die in the attack at the Vienna airport.

April 2, 1986 Palestinian terrorists calling themselves the Arab Revolutionary Cells detonates a bomb on TWA flight 840 as it approaches the Athens airport, opening up a hole in the cabin and sucking out four United States citizens, including one infant.

April 5, 1986 Libyan terrorists bomb a discotheque in Berlin, killing 3 U.S. servicemen and injuring 230 others. In response to this, the United States bombs Tripoli and Benghazi, attempting to kill the Libyan dictator Moammar al-Qadhafi.

September 5, 1986 Pan Am flight 73 is hijacked by four Abu Nidal terrorists, 22 die in Karachi, Pakistan when the hijackers open fire on the passengers.

April 24, 1987 The November 17 terrorist group is responsible for a bomb on a bus that injures 16 U.S. servicemen near Athens, Greece

February 17, 1988 A U.S. Marine is kidnapped and killed by Hezbollah terrorists in Southern Lebanon.

April 14, 1988 The Organization of Jihad Brigades explodes a car bomb at a USO club in Naples, Italy killing one U.S. sailor.

September 19, 1989 UTA flight 772 blows up over the Sahara desert killing 170 people. Libya in 2003 acknowledges responsibility for the attack.

March 17, 1992 The Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina is bombed by the terrorist group Hezbollah killing 29 and injuring 242.

February 26, 1993 A bomb explodes in the basement of the World Trade Center in New York, killing 6 and wounding more than a thousand.

July 18, 1994 A Jewish center in Buenos Aires, Argentina is bombed by Hezbollah terrorists, killing 86 and wounding 300.

March 8, 1995 Two U.S. diplomats are killed by unknown gunmen in Karachi, Pakistan.

August 21, 1995 A bomb planted by HAMAS detonates on board a bus in Jerusalem, killing 6 and wounding 100.

November 13, 1995 A bomb planted by the Islamic Movement of Change explodes in a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia military compound, killing more than 40.

November 19, 1995 A suicide bomber drives a truck into the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan killing 16 and injuring 60.

February 16, 1996 HAMAS uses a suicide bomber to blow up a bus in Jerusalem, killing 26 people and wounding 80.

March 4, 1996 HAMAS claims responsibility for a bomb that explodes near a busy shopping mall in Tel Aviv, Israel. The bomb kills 20 and injures 75.

June 25, 1996 A fuel truck explodes outside the United States military's Khobar Towers building, killing 19 military personnel and wounding 515.

February 23, 1997 A Palestinian gunman opens fire on tourists on an observation deck at the Empire State Building, killing one and wounding others.

September 4, 1997 Three HAMAS suicide bombers detonate three bombs at the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem, killing 5 and wounding 200.

November 12, 1997 Four U.S. businessmen are killed in Karachi, Pakistan by members of the Islamic Revolutionary Council.

November 17, 1997 Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (IG) terrorists open fire at the Hatshepsut Temple in the Valley of the Kings near Luxor, Egypt. 58 tourists are killed and 26 others are injured.


August 7, 1998 In near simultaneous explosions at U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, Al Qaeda terrorists kill 291 and wound 5,000 in Kenya and kill 10 and wound 77 in Tanzania.

October 1, 2000 A Christian church is bombed in Dushanbe, Tajikistan killing seven and injuring 70.

October 12, 2000 The U.S.S. Cole, a destroyer in the United States Navy, is rammed by a boat full of explosives in the harbor of Aden, Yemen. 17 sailors are killed and 39 more are injured. Al Qaeda is suspected.

December 30, 2000 Across the street from the United States Embassy in Manila, a plaza is bombed injuring 9. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) is blamed.

March 4, 2001 A suicide bomber attacks in Netanya, Israel killing 3 and wounding 65. HAMAS claims responsibility.

March 15, 2001 A Russian airliner is hijacked by three Chechens during a flight from Istanbul to Moscow. The plane is forced to land in Medina, Saudi Arabia where it remains for 22 hours. Saudi security personnel storm the plane, killing a hijacker, a passenger and a flight attendant.

April 22, 2001 A suicide bomber from HAMAS detonates his bomb near a bus stop in Kfar Siva, Israel killing one and injuring 60.
June 1, 2001 HAMAS uses a suicide bomber to blow up an Israeli nightclub, injuring 140.

August 9, 2001 HAMAS detonates a bomb in an Israeli pizza restaurant, killing 15 and wounding 90. The Israeli's respond by seizing the Orient House, where the PLO houses its Political Headquarters.

September 9, 2001 HAMAS uses an Israeli Arab as a suicide bomber to kill three people in Nahariya.

September 11, 2001 Three hijacked airliners are used as bombs and ram into the World Trade Center and Pentagon. A fourth hijacked airliner crashes in rural Pennsylvania when the passengers attempt to retake the plane. The attacks kill more than 3,000 people. Commonly referred to now as 9/11.

October 17, 2001 The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestin (PFLP) sends a gunmen to Jerusalem and assassinates the Israeli Minister of Tourism.

December 1, 2001 Two suicide bombers attack a Jerusalem mall, killing 10 and wounding 170.

December 2, 2001 A suicide bomber boards a bus and blows it up in Haifa, Israel killing 15 and wounding 40. HAMAS claims responsibility.

January 17, 2002 The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claims responsibility for a Palestinian gunman who kills 6 and injures 25 in Hadera, Israel.

January 22, 2002 Armed terrorists on motorcycles fire on the United States Consulate in Calcutta, India killing 5 Indian security guards and wounding 13.

January 23, 2002 Daniel Pearl, a Wall Street Journalist, is kidnapped in Karachi, Pakistan by Jaish-e-Muhammad, an Islamic separatist group opposed to U.S. control of Pakistan. On February 20th, a videotape shows Mr. Pearl's death.

January 27, 2002 A Palestinian woman blows herself up in Jerusalem, killing one and wounding 100.

February 16, 2002 The PFLP claims responsibility for a suicide bombing in the West Bank that kills 4 and wounds 27.

March 7, 2002 A suicide bombing in a supermarket by the PFLP in the West Bank wounds 10.

March 9, 2002 The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claims responsibility for a suicide bombing in Jerusalem that kills 11 and wounds 52.

March 17, 2002 A grenade is thrown into a Protestant Church in Islamablad, Pakistan killing 5 and wounding 46.
March 21, 2002 A suicide bomber blows himself up in Jerusalem, killing 3 and wounding 86. The Palestinian Islamic Jihad claims responsibility.

March 24, 2002 Three bombs explode in Russian towns near the Chechnya border killing 20 and wounding 93.

March 27, 2002 A HAMAS suicide bomber blows himself up in a restaurant in Netanya, Israel killing 22 and wounding 140.

March 30, 2002 A bomb explodes at a Hindu temple in Jammu, Kashmir killing 10. The Islamic Front claims responsibility.

April 11, 2002 A suicide bomber detonates a truck bomb outside a synagogue in Djerba, Tunisia. 16 are dead and 26 are injured, mostly German tourists. The Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Sites claims responsibility.

April 12, 2002 A female suicide bomber blows herself up in Jerusalem, killing 6 and wounding 90. The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claims responsibility.

May 8, 2002 A car bomb explodes near a bus in Karachi, Pakistan killing 12 and wounding 19. Al Qaeda is suspected.

May 9, 2002 A remote-controlled bomb is detonated at a May Day parade in Kaspiisk, Dagestan killing 42 and wounding 150. Al Qaeda is suspected.

May 14, 2002 Terrorists open fire on a passenger bus in Kaluchak, Jammu killing 7. They then enter a military housing complex and kill 3 soldiers and 7 dependents before the terrorists are killed. Jamiat ul-Mujahedin and al-Mansooran claim responsibility.
 
  • #30
Diplomacy and reason can and never will be had with nations that let religion dictate policy or use it as a means to forward their own agenda. Religion begins where reason and logic leave off.

I supported Bush when we were told there were WMD in Iraq. Iraq was also a training ground and place of refuge for terrorist activity. I was very supportive of going in there to find weapons and uncover these terrorist cells and if we got Hussein in the meantime, even better.

As far a democracy in Iraq, I don't think it's worth the life of 1 young American man or woman. To me, that fight is the responsibility of young Iraqi's. Democracy comes with a huge price tag, however it's usually us that has to pay the tab whether it be in lives or money.

That area of the world is a mess and will always be a mess. When people are brainwashed by propaganda from birth and taught to hate and are more than willing to take their lives to end yours for "a greater purpose" then there is no reasoning and you really can't stop it.
 
  • #31
You're 100% right Jason.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]What's even more of a laugh is you women sitting here trying to defend something that if they had their way, you wouldn't be typing on this computer, owning and growing CP or even having a driver's licens.
I think the 'women' you mention (I didn't know this was the 19th century) are trying to understand why they do what they do (probably a futile exercise) and are not defending them.
 
  • #32
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] Some muslim communities love them(note the word some, NOT all) and Saddam Hussain was associated with them and he certanly didnt hate them
Plus theres htis muslim criminal here(forgot his name now) that sometimes holds ceremonies in the street, supporting terrorists......crazy
I think hes in prison now anyway

Well DUH! I guess I kinda put them in the same category as the terrorists since they support them so much.

And about us wasting our resources, I kind of half agree with that only half because I don't know the whole plan or the whole story or anything, I never know the whole story or plan but oh well so don't yell at me I'm just saying...
 
  • #33
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I think the 'women' you mention (I didn't know this was the 19th century)

Since when is the term 'women' 19th century?
 
  • #34
Ditto to everything scottychaos has said so far. I agree with you totally. And i agree that luis is very "far gone" most of the time.
 
  • #35
where do you get off calling people "terrorist sympathizers"?
 
  • #36
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]where do you get off calling people "terrorist sympathizers"?

Very simple. You can take one of 3 positions when it comes to radical Islamists.

1. No amount of twisted reasoning or explanation will ever excuse, make acceptable, rationalize or condone the indiscriminate use of force to kill, mame and destroy innocent Children, Women and Men (in that order). Therefor we must conclude that these animals are unreasonable and can not be reasoned with no more than you can reason with a Grizzly bear as it systematically removes your limbs from your torso. If you want to survive than you must destroy what wishes to destroy you.

2. You don't condone the method, but you believe the reason for the terrorist attacks have something to do with US policy or some other pecieved wrong doing by the Islamic world. There for you believe that we bring these attacks upon ourselves. ( A favororite position of the blame America crowd in this country, populated by mostly the leftwing of the Demo. party)

3. You fully side with the terrorists.

How can you tell what number you fall under ; Simple.

When someone asks you what you think of the terrorist attacks, you respond by saying.

1. It's a barbaric act that can not be condoned in any way shape or form. (you are in category 1)

2. It's a barbaric act but,..........(insert any number of reasons of why we were attacked here) You fall under category 2.

3. Good, we got what we deserved. You fall under category 3.

People who respond like number 2 are fence riders and show sympathetic tendencies toward the terrorists if not for their methods and therefor are terrorist sympathizers.

JJ
 
  • #37
Well first of all I don't really think any of us are Terrorist sympathizers here. We are all on the same side, but just not on the same side to how to erraticate them.

Scotty, I don't think you can compare a criminal to a terrorist. Terrorist in their own crazy demented eyes think they are doing good for their fellow country men, motivated by political reasons. Criminals are motivated by self greed. Therefore the "less cops equals less criminals" is not the same logic as the one mentioned by alpha
I truelly believe the only way to stop them is to attack them since they will never stop.

Ya I know, Terrorists do suck.
 
  • #38
[b said:
Quote[/b] (uglypho @ July 08 2005,6:14)]Scotty, I don't think you can compare a criminal to a terrorist. Terrorist in their own crazy demented eyes think they are doing good for their fellow country men, motivated by political reasons. Criminals are motivated by self greed. Therefore the "less cops equals less criminals" is not the same logic as the one mentioned by wolf9striker.
He wasn't comparing a criminal to a terrorist. He was giving an example of the relationship of terrorists and the war (explaining the fact that the war is necessary to get rid of the terrorists) and a criminal and a policeman (explaining the fact that the police is necessary to get rid of criminals). The police-criminal example illustrates the fact that in the same way the criminals would continue to do what they do without the police, so would the terrorists without the war.
 
  • #39
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Well first of all I don't really think any of us are Terrorist sympathizers here. We are all on the same side, but just not on the same side to how to erraticate them

"Erraticate" is the perfect term to describe it, because these blood thirsty demons are a disease. Last time I checked we didn't diplomaticaly negotiate with small pox to remove if from the world. No, we went on a full scale assault to the ends of the earth until the disease was removed from the human population.
 
  • #40
you cant just go around blowing up thousands of innocent people just because you want a few dead (well i guess George Dubbyah can... even if the UN condemns it) . if you want to give terrorists the death penalty, thats fine, but innocent bystanders dont' deserve the death penalty.


i guess i'm number two. i do not sumpathize with them however, not in the least. i do not feel sympathy for them.
"insert any number of reasons of why we were attacked here" there is always a reason. if there wasn't a reason for them to do it then they wouldn't do it now would they?
 
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