Regarding "bad transactions" (trades, etc)

[PlantAKiss]

OK folks...here's the deal. I'm sure there are some of you "out there" that have been involved in bad trades...giveaway issues...or even auction problems. What is happening is these problems are not being reported to the moderators.

The moderators are aware in general of grumblings regarding a few members. But that's all it is...vague "grapevine" griping. This tends to come around via hearsay..."I heard..."..."I know of someone...", etc. We are not being contacted DIRECTLY with FACTS regarding problems. And so we cannot act on them.

All of you out there who are complaining among yourselves...you have no one to blame but yourself. Say for example you have a bad trade with Person A. You think..."Well, its just ONE trade and I don't want to rat out Person-A." But you may be unaware that Person A is stiffing 5 other people who are ALSO saying the same thing YOU are. So instead of getting 6 bad trade reports...we get NONE.

In order to take action, and be able to warn the membership about anyone who is CONSISTENTLY causing problems in trades/giveaways, etc., we HAVE to know about it! And we are not being told.

There isn't a moderator here who wouldn't go to bat for ANYONE to protect them from bad experiences. Its bad for individuals and the forums as a whole to have bad transactions. But as long as you all grumble among yourselves...we can do nothing to help you.

I've been asking for bad trade reports...and I've gotten 2. That is not enough to put a person on the Deadbeat Traders list. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes with trades (myself included!) so we can't jump the gun on one or two mistakes. We need to know who is **consistently** irresponsible on deals.

Please understand that to make a report does not mean someone is going to get banned or slapped onto the Deadbeat list. It just means we will be AWARE of what's happening so if we see a PATTERN with any particular individual, then we can address it. We know that "crap happens"...people forget, they get sick, have accidents, tragedies, births, deaths...things that may take one away from the computer or restrict packing/mailing time. So we all have to bear that in mind too.

We don't want to see ANYONE put on the Deadbeat list. We will do anything we can to avoid that BUT...it is the RESPONSIBILITY of each individual to handle their trades/giveaways with their partners in a timely manner and pack your plants well. Communication is a big key. If you've had a problem, just say so! Accidents happen, etc. But keep in contact and answer any PMs you receive. There is nothing that will frustrate a person more than being ignored.

SO...if you haven't been able to resolve an issue privately with your trade partner, contact a mod. We will try our best to help you. But we still need to know of *each bad transaction* so we can track who might need to be added to the list as member protection. No one will be added without JUST CAUSE.

It is your responsibility to let us know what's happening privately so we can work to protect you.

Thanks!

 

[PlantAKiss]

Bump

 

[Est]

TY for posting this, PAK, and for taking care of trade issues. I suppose that for the next while we need to make sure everyone sees this, so good thing this'll act as a bump, too!

Remember folks, the steps are simple: Got a problem trading and can't communicate/work out with trading partner: go to the mods.

 

[PlantAKiss]

Thanks for the support Jonathan.

So far...everyone has remained silent. If we don't get any reports, I will assume that nobody has had ANY problems with exchanges of plant material in recent months and that all of our trading membership is trustworthy, responsible and good to deal with.

BTW...this post isn't about any particular individual(s). This is to try to make sure that trading is going smoothly and properly and we don't have any disgruntled, disillusioned or disappointed members. Dis is de facts.

 

[jimscott]

Also, please be careful in discerning between bad transactions and factors that aren't under the sender's control. For instance, even though a sender ships Priority and packs things well (peanuts, moist paper towels, etc...) a lot of plants end up being in shock, by the time they arrive - especially sundews, whose dew is often gone. Many plants will look like "death warmed over" and need to be nursed back to health before they produce new growth. I have seen it on my end and have gotten feedback from the other end. Also, we are all at different levels of expertise and sending plants is a new experience. Some plants are notorious rough shippers (pigmy dews, d. paradoxa, Byblis linflora...)Then there is the parcel service and the horror stories of envelopes/packages being lost or arriving weeks later or folded/spindles/mutilated (Ace Ventura style). I sent out one box that was picked up by someone else and neglected to tell the intended recipient. i snet another and it was discovered that the original box was intercepted.

All this is to say that we have a way of handling beefs for the bad transactions AND we also need to be patient with one another and understanding about things that happen - after a shipment has been sent.

 

[Hortman]

Quote[/b] (PlantAKiss @ July 18 2005,4:58)]"So far...everyone has remained silent.  If we don't get any reports, I will assume that nobody has had ANY problems with exchanges of plant material in recent months and that all of our trading membership is trustworthy, responsible and good to deal with."

OK, perhaps I'm dense and don't understand, but PAK - you are in the process of intervening in two bad transactions for me, yet you say you haven't heard from anyone. Please explain...am I missing something?

Thanks

 

[Est]

Hortman:
PAK is well aware of your situation. As you said, you're having it taken care of, she isn't going to forget about you, she was merely describing a general trend.

Quote[/b] ]I've been asking for bad trade reports...and I've gotten 2.

See? This isn't really directed towards you as you've made your complaints known. The problem, as stated, is that there seems to be a lot of hearsay and general statements, but not enough people have reported the problem as to constitute the amount of vague griping going on. That is: there has been complaining, yet people aren't coming forward with their problems. You yourself did not approach a mod until recently, so all that PAK's saying is to help people like you, and give them direction as to the appropriate actions.

 

[Hortman]

Est, read the quote again.

 

[PlantAKiss]

Jim...

Quote[/b] ]Please understand that to make a report does not mean someone is going to get banned or slapped onto the Deadbeat list.  It just means we will be AWARE of what's happening so if we see a PATTERN with any particular individual, then we can address it.  We know that "crap happens"...people forget, they get sick, have accidents, tragedies, births, deaths...things that may take one away from the computer or restrict packing/mailing time.  So we all have to bear that in mind too.

Like I said...we are aware that "crap happens".  Sometimes its the fault of the mail system although good packing and box labeling can go a long ways to help that.  We understand there can be extenuating circumstances and all trades aren't perfection.

What we want to know is **CONSISTENT PATTERN of bad trading** with any individual.  Not the "Ooops, I made a mistake!" kinda thing.  We are talking about *repeated* incidences of unsatisfactory trades or failtures to live up to promises.  The salient point here is...if people don't report any ONE incident, we cannot establish a pattern or history.  So it doesn't mean one person has to have had 5 bad trades with somebody before making a report.  We need EACH ONE to establish a history.

"One bad transaction doth not a deadbeat make."

Hortman...the post you quoted was referring to any reports I have received SINCE MAKING THIS TOPIC.  Your complaints were received last week I believe.  I counted your complaints as ONE individual making a report and I got a report from ONE other individual last week as well.  That makes TWO individuals reporting a problem.  But since this post has been up, we have received no reports with names and details.  I hope that's clearer for you.  I could add further details to say you made 2 complaints and then there was another complaint so there were THREE separate incidences of failures.  Two members have been notified to be responsible and make good on their deals; one member received a verbal warning for past complaints (a history) of poor trades/giveaways.

We can't fix what we don't know is broken.

 

[jimscott]

Suzanne, we're on the same page/wavelength. Just covering the other end of the spectrum, where people's expectations and reality aren't matching up, possibly leading to hasty accusations.

 

[PlantAKiss]

Its true some people might be more impatient or more of a perfectionist than someone else in expectations. But that's where the "pattern" comes in. Say 5 different people have had some manner of bad experience with a particular individual that kinda eliminates things like "oops", "the mail did it" and someone being a little too impatient.

Problems do often arise that we don't expect. The ceph I offered up in the auction ended up getting scale before the auction ended. I'm now trying to clean the plant up while my VERY patient recipient waits. But have been and remain in contact about the plant. I'm working to fix the problem.

 

[jimscott]

I meant to edit my post a bit and re-emphasize that what I brought is a peripheral issue to the subject being addressed. Oh well. This is about chronic bad patterns and how to handle them appropriately. and avoiding a public admonishment when it isn't necessary. Sorry Suzanne.

 

[PlantAKiss]

Not a problem Jim.  I appreciate the input.  Its true there are many factors that can affect a trade or giveaway...mail and perceptions being two of them.  

BTW...a "bad trade" can involve issues such as: slowness in shipping or not shipping at all; taking shipping money and not sending the item; plants poorly packed and arriving in bad condition (dehydrated or crushed); not sending what was promised (surprise substitutions); taking SASE's and not sending seeds; lack of communication/ignoring PMs; taking payments and not sending material; in general being irresponsible and careless with your trade partner.

Any trade that has caused you frustration, anger, hard feelings, disgust, disappointment or a desire not to trade with that person again would be considerd a "bad trade" (although obviously there are degrees of severity).

 

[Travis]

I am not a trader, I am a giver. To bad we will always have people like this...I always think communication is important when dealing with trades. They do not communicate that should be a red flag.