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Don't worry, god's in control

  • #181
As for hell, I believe it may be a specific location lying within the 4~6th plains, yet to be opened up. Or, it may inhabit a plain of it's own that already exists but ... isn't expressed until the end, or is a plain that will be created in the end. By the end, I mean judgement day, at which time the earth will not be destroyed.
 
  • #182
[b said:
Quote[/b] (lol @ Aug. 07 2005,8:02)]As for heaven, it is beyond the reach of our human spirits. Nobody but a few people in history whom god selected can accsess the real heaven because it is beyond the 7th plain. This I know for certain. Until the final day of judgement, when heaven will extend down to our level, and perhaps even into the physical plains of existance.
This place on Earth will never be heaven. Infact it is even stated in the bible that we don't belong here. This is not our real home. Our bodies are just homes/temples for our spirit.

Another thing about the comment about this whole thing was made up for people who were scared to die. As a Christian I am not scared to die, for I know that this life here on Earth is only temporarily, only a spec. My life after this in heaven is for eternity. While we are alive in our flesh here on Earth God wants us to enjoy life and the experiences of life as a human.
 
  • #183
that's nice for you, but i was talking about the founders of religion. no specific religion, religion in general.

i'm not scared to die either, doesn't mean i'm christian.
 
  • #184
Back in ancient times girls were getting married around the age of 13 or so.  Also women were supressed back in days.  Heck they were expected to act a certain way untill the femanist movement.  they made lower wages and were expected to act and dress a certain way.  Also Catholics are where Baptists and all the other christian religions started so it has everything to do with it.  They were where you got the bible from to begin with.  Also I would assume that the research you told me to google up was done by the church??  If so of course they are going to say its still the same because they want to remain in power.  It its proven that the bible was altered or misunderstood then their reign of power will surely deminish.   Satanic doesn't even mean you worship the devil.  Here is a passage from a book I am reading.  Lets enlighten some people.

    "...people pictured satanic cults as devil-worchiping fiends, and yet Satanists historicly were educated men who stodd as adversaries to the chirch.  Shaitan. The rumors os satanic blackmagic animal sacrifices and the pentagram ritual were nothing but lies spread by the church as a smear campaign againts their adversaries.  Over time, opponents of the church, wanting to emulate the Illuminati, began believing the lies and acting them out.  Thus modern Satanism was born."  

    "Their power grew (refuring to the illuminati) to the point where the church considered them the single most dangerous anti-christian force on earth.  The Vatican denounced the brotherhood as Shaitan."

    "It's Islamic.  It means 'adversary'  . . . God's adversary.  The church chose Islam for the name because it was a language they considered Dirty."

    "Shaitan is the root of an English word . . . Satan"

Outsider I also believe Jesus existed.  I never said he didn'.  I don't believe he was born an imaculate conseption though.  I believe he started a leigion just as many other people create religions today.  Just so happens his took off.  I don't even believe the religion practiced today is the religion he intended it to be.

All Hail Darwin!!!!!  I want to get a sticker made with the christian fish and add legs to it witht he caption under it that says DARWIN!!!!

Anywho.  How is it that the bible doesn't mention dinosars.  It says man was created on what ever day.  Man did not exist during the early times of dinosars.  Interesting.  Also I have spoken with many people who have studied the bible and many of them have told me the bible is filled with contadictions.  So Hmmmmm  Heck everyone is trying to use the bible for justifying something.  So why pick and choose lets use it to justify everything in the bible.  If I do remember correctly there is a passage that says "I have given you all the seed baring plants and herbs to use."  I don't see you trying to legalize Marijuana because god's word says he has given it to use to use.  Yet the majority of people still want this kept illegal.
 
  • #185
well, wasn't the tree of KOGAE a herb? since it had fruit it must have had seeds. theres a contradiction right there. ha-zaa!

if adam and eve were smart, they would have eaten from the tree of life first and THEN the tree of KOGAE.
 
  • #186
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]yes but there are an infinate number of universes all being created every instant. and an instant is an infinately small number.

some think that, atleast.
and what evidence do you have to support that conclusion? Believing that is just like having a religion... That's just an idea someone had... I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever of that happening. You have to believe that solely on faith. I think they're philosophical theories, not scientific theories.
Sure, it's interesting to think about, but until I get some evidence I'm not believing it either way.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Ok, here me out on this once more and tell me what you think.
I think believing that is exactly like believing the bible or anything... What I just said applies.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]This isn't religious, this is scientific (albeit theoretical).
so where does the science come in?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There was an actual Jesus Christ who walked the Earth and sacrificed himself for you and me.  From a non-biblic view he was actually a real person in history
Even that's debatable. all the evidence for him really existing (besides the bible itself, which talks about men walking on water so it's not a historic book) is heresay from people who lived many years after he died.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] It's not ONE author who wrote this, but many.  Yet somehow it all fits together?
does it? what about the dead sea scrolls and the other books that weren't put in the bible?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yet somehow all the predictions of the prophets from the Old Testament who were given divine wisdom from God came true?
hmm... so the predictions in the beginning of the book come later at the end of that book... so?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]this whole thing was made up for people who were scared to die.  As a Christian I am not scared to die,
I can say the same about christianity. Just lies people can tell their children for comfort and dicipline. Thinking if you steal something you'll go to ETERNAL tourture and suffering can make them behave very well.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Back in ancient times girls were getting married around the age of 13 or so
heh, great point! the world is getting BETTER now that they marry at their 20's :p
 
  • #187
TheAlphaWolf~I love what you wrote on page 17
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~Niki~
laugh.gif
 
  • #188
The same people argue this over and over again as if you didn't know what the others think and feel from the last 10+ times. Why? Do you need to express something that no-one wants to listen to you about? You had the same feelings last time but you insist in arguing again as if the other will change because you've proven the beginnings and ends of all things.

You will never know the truth until you can accept that it may not be as you want it to be. Life does not justify to anyone - Scientifically or Religiously.

confused.gif


Joe
 
  • #189
[b said:
Quote[/b] (superimposedhope @ Aug. 08 2005,12:02)]The same people argue this over and over again as if you didn't know what the others think and feel from the last 10+ times. Why? Do you need to express something that no-one wants to listen to you about? You had the same feelings last time but you insist in arguing again as if the other will change because you've proven the beginnings and ends of all things.
Because its called a conversation. A dialog that has multiple views expressed. Do not assume no one wants to listen. You keep coming back and reading don't you? Also if NO-One wanted to listen to others views then this thread would have been dead before it got to page 2. Just because you think its pointless doesn't mean everyone else does. You have the right to ignore the thread or participate. So have a nice day Joe and let us continue this conversation untill no one really wants to carry it on of it gets ugly. So far neither has happened.
 
  • #190
not everything has to have a point. it's called fun. i know i'm enjoying myself.

debate stimulates the mind.
 
  • #191
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. Heck there is times I have to read 3 pages to get cought back up. I wouldn't do that if I wasn't interested.
 
  • #192
yeah, I'll second what they've said.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You will never know the truth until you can accept that it may not be as you want it to be. Life does not justify to anyone - Scientifically or Religiously
isn't religion just that? believing what you WANT to believe?
Science is believing the truth, not what you want to believe.
 
  • #193
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Aug. 08 2005,3:04)]Science is believing the truth, not what you want to believe.
Science != Truth. For example the creation of the universe, what does science say about that? It says there was a big boom and some clouds of dust that had gravitational pull etc... Is this the truth? No it's a theory that can not be proven.
 
  • #194
But why does it say that? because there is a ton of evidence (I don't get 90% of it, but here it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang ) that says the universe is expanding and was once at a single point. And you can actually SEE the clouds of dust (nebulae) and all the different stages of development.
What does religion say? (I'll just stick to the christian view and not go into lotus flowers, dung beetles, elephants and turtles, etc) it says that this omnipotent, omniprescent, omniscient, omni everything good, perfect, blah blah blah. was just there, and suddenly for no good reason decides that it will create everything. And what evidence is there to suggest ANY of that? zero. zip. nada. nothing.
 
  • #195
Beware of anyone stating that they know something that they cannot possibly know. Believing something is very, very different than knowing something.

In science, there is a relatively strict methodology that ensures that the best approximation of truth is considered the prevailing notion. Some things can be proven to the point of being considered for all intents and purposes a fact. Some things are explained by tons and tons of evidence, but absolute certainty is unattainable. It's important to have in mind just what level of certainty is demonstrable in stating something is a fact.

Religion is, by contrast, mostly a matter of faith. Most religions make myriad byzantine claimes that are totally unprovable. Claims that cannot be tested scientifically. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, as you have to make certain assumptions in life, often without the benefit of rigorous scientific proof.

However, when it comes to the topic of what other people should believe, I think it's somewhat improper to expect them to believe things they don't currently believe without something approximating a compelling case. I've never really understood how someone can tell a story like, for example, the Biblical account of creation, and expect a single other person to believe it's literally true. It's so bereft of corroborating evidence, and indeed contradicted by mountains of physical and theoretical evidence that it strains credulity. It further strains credulity to think that a deity would make our eternal existence dependent on unsupportable and fantastical tales written by desert nomads 2000 years ago. That's not to say it isn't all true, it's just not supportable.

This goes for everything you hear, not just religious matters. Consider whether the speaker COULD know what they are talking about. Consider the supporting evidence. Maybe anecdotal tales of life-changing relationships are sufficient for you. Great. Just don't expect it to be enough for everyone else.

Capslock
 
  • #196
Capslock, you are my hero, still.
 
  • #197
I've never seen 20 pages posted about a bumper sticker... almost like 80+ pages posted on the topic of killing squirrels...
 
  • #198
Capslock, you've got a great argument there. I'll just add that while the best approximation of truth is the prevailing notion, all scientists have decided already what they beleive and will read evidence one way or another.

As for the credibility of one theory or the other, we all know that there is evidence out there that can point both ways, but none of us are experts who can prove any one thing.

Peter
 
  • #199
as usual, I agree capslock.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]we all know that there is evidence out there that can point both ways,
really? where?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] all scientists have decided already what they beleive and will read evidence one way or another.
all? nah.
 
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