Homo sapiens zoo exhibit

[Windplant]

Outsiders71 i agree with u, yea we are not monkeys or something... well depends the view point, but no.
ktulu we have something that no1 have, a soul, hehe i won!

, we are like clones of god, in other scale, i would prefer have claws and, a more long nose, a lot of largue tets (dientes), and be more fast, well... we are not a fox or someting lol. see ya

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]i agree with u, yea we are not monkeys

nobody said we are. We're apes.

Quote[/b] ]ktulu we have something that no1 have, a soul

WHAT is a soul, what does it do, and how do you know nothing else has one? How do you know WE have one anyway?

Quote[/b] ]a lot of largue tets (dientes),

you mean teeth

 

[Windplant]

Hi, hehe my english is a litle bad, a soul is someting specyal!!, thats all i can tell u if u wanna know more i need search abouth , the souls give us a spirutual strengh, someting that usually is not present in other animals, i know no1 more have a soul cuz only humans are like god so he only give it to us thats all i know, we know we have one cuz we fell it, maybe someones do not want to fell it, but it is there!, u just need to concentrate and wach more close ur plants they are creations, full of majestousyti (dont know how writhe the word

), wen i wach my plants i c how beautyfull is the world, thats are some reasons that will make us tink how that is so beautyfull, no1 can look so graet like the smallets flower of anyplant

, well anyway i just wanna say my point we are diferent!!, human always try to know the why and all that, is not necesary know!, what if we are animals or not, who cares!, it depends... thats why i tink, ppl say we come from apes, cuz they wanna know were they come from, cuz u cant see god or you soul easy, thats why ppl wanna come from something they see, someting that they can belive on more easy, usually ppl dont want to see sometings, thats why u dont see gosts or spyrits, there is someting called ´´blokeo´´, wen some1 dont wanna get someting he blok that tinking, i leared that from a psicogi (ppl that study mind), ok ill continue later go ta go for some milk and chocolate

, bye, see ya.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

,

Quote[/b] ]we know we have one cuz we fell it, maybe someones do not want to fell it, but it is there!, u just need to concentrate and wach more close ur plants they are creations,

I don't feel it, and I think I do watch my plants very closely. That's why I'll be a biologist, because I like looking at nature closely.

Quote[/b] ] full of majestousyti

majesty?

Quote[/b] ] thats all i can tell u if u wanna know more i need search abouth ,

well, ok

Quote[/b] ] the souls give us a spirutual strengh, someting that usually is not present in other animals

wait... isn't the soul the spirit? how can it give itself strenght?
Why do you say other animals don't have souls?

Quote[/b] ] i know no1 more have a soul cuz only humans are like god

in what way?
are you getting this out of the bible? let me quote what someone somewhere else said:

Quote[/b] ]It is commonly believed among evangelical Christians that man is different from the animals in that he possesses an immortal soul. But in the Creation account, both animals and men are called souls. The Hebrew word for soul, nephesh, used of Adam in Genesis 2:7, is used of animals in Genesis 1:21, 24; 2:19; 9:10,12,15,16 et cetera, where it is translated "living creature." Sea creatures are called souls in Revelation 16:3. Basically, a soul is a living creature—whether man or animal

 

[ktulu]

first belief in a soul is an abstract thought, and although you attribute it to god you can not prove or disprove its existance. It is of the spritual nature. Some non-human animals, mainly chimps and i believe elphants?(not too sure on this one, i concentrate more on primates) have been shown to morn their dead and change their normal actions after a group member dies. This could be interpreted as belief in a soul or atleast abstract thought. Your evidence for a soul can not be the bible, koran, or any other holy book. Also you can not say that humans have soul because they can feel it, that is merely an emotional response to something, and therefore you can not rule out that other animals do not also feel this emotion.

 

[herenorthere]

Aretha Franklin - soul
Jessica Simpson - no soul
ape - ?

 

[Windplant]

Hi, no i exactly dont mean that animals may not have souls, i dont get this from a religion this is basic, and no!, the soul and spiryt is not same, they are very diferent, u should look you plants closer

, the sould gives strengh, not physically is diferent, and more that anyting us would say this could become a pin ball game, i say someting u say someting, mean a never ending!!, we have a soul, spyrit, pisikic body,and the normal body, ting u must readmore abouth this is many info to just say it, and my english will make sometings dyfyculty to understhat, anyway, from many diferent religions, and view points we are not apes, but aswell u tink we are that, some1 tink we are not that, i must add, not all humans are he same, we, there are many genetycal things make us diferent, im sure us dont know... octopus are more smart that monkeys lol, well i tink we should finish this, anyway this will never end, u dont tink the same?

 

[endparenthesis]

Nature has used nanoengineering to build a brain from a blueprint using methods and materials just as accessible to us, and there'll be a point in the future where we'll understand the "wiring" of the brain well enough to replicate it in a way that's biologically compatible (or even biological, but those materials are too slow and inefficient to be appealing).

So there will be a point when damaged portions of your brain will be replacable by circuitry (and improvable, but that's a whole other discussion). It's irrelevant that this isn't possible at the moment... the fact that it's even just theoretically sound means that the implications need to be explored.

So, if you were a resident of the future, and you decided to swap out 1% of your brain for electronics... would you still be you? Would you still have a soul? Would you even notice a difference? The brain would easily create new pathways to fix any broken connections, but I imagine the process would be gradual enough and in small enough pieces that there would be no significant interruption.

Later on you decide to do it again. You swap out another 49% of your brain. The circuitry would be installed in ways that preserved the structure and connections of the neurons that were there before, and again the process would be gradual enough that the brain wouldn't notice anything had changed (if it could be done a neuron at a time, it might be seamless, since a neuron isn't firing unceasingly). So now half of your thinking is done by machinery. Are you still you? Do you still have a soul? Might you have "half" of a soul somehow?

You finally decide to go all the way. Using the same gradual and exacting procedures, you lose your last bits of gray matter. Your identity is now living inside hardware. So who are you now? What are you? And how about the soul... still there?

So this is the point where people might be bringing up cell memory or parts of the nervous system throughout the body where memories/identity might be distributed. And the fact that there's still a natural, fleshy, "God-given" part of you. Since you're tired of reading this at this point I'll jump to the part where the rest of the body needs to be (gradually) replaced and you're finally entirely synthetic. Have you now somehow "lost" your soul? You'd feel basically the same (if you went with technology that mirrored the original nervous system anyway)... shouldn't you at least notice a difference if your soul isn't there anymore? You're basically a human creation at this point. All of the natural-born parts of you are in the trash. You would be a mere copy if the identity hadn't gone through that gradual transitioning process into this new state.

So it turns out your identity isn't, umm... meat-dependent. You have these human feelings (again, if the technology works that way) and human memories. You know who you are. But now you've discovered that all of that only exists as a pattern. Who you are is a self-sustaining bit of electrical organization.

People who don't believe in a soul are saying, "Well, yeah, you were a machine before anyway. Just a carbon-based one." And people who do believe in a soul probably haven't revoked this poor individual's soul so far (if you have, I'd like to hear the reasoning, and exactly what the cut-off point was), so now there's this machine walking around with a soul... how did that happen?. He obviously has an identity at least... does identity come from the soul, or is it more like something you have than something you are? This machine in question has a more intact pattern than someone like Terri Schiavo, and people were quite adamant that she still had a soul. Does all this mean that machines that didn't used to be people can have souls too? Can a soul be attached to just an electrical pattern? Is the soul the electrical pattern? What if that pattern gets duplicated (an easy process in this context)... did the soul get copied? Can a pattern be altered enough to become a different soul? Can it get put back into a biological body? Someone else's biological body?

It just goes on and on... (kinda like me).  

When you dig and dig and dig, you start to get the feeling that there are only two possibilities. Either nothing has a soul/spiritual existence... or everything does.

(I'm in the "have a soul" camp by the way... which is why these questions are so interesting.)

 

[tink]

Wow, I really shouldn't have read this.

Too much confusion for me.

 

[Starman]

Quote[/b] (Windplant @ Aug. 30 2005,10:58)]Hi, no i exactly dont mean that animals may not have souls, i dont get this from a religion this is basic, and no!, the soul and spiryt is not same, they are very diferent, u should look you plants closer

, the sould gives strengh, not physically is diferent, and more that anyting us would say this could become a pin ball game, i say someting u say someting,  mean a never ending!!, we  have a soul, spyrit, pisikic body,and the normal body, ting u must readmore abouth this is many info to just say it, and my english will make sometings dyfyculty to understhat, anyway, from many diferent religions, and view points we are not apes, but aswell u tink we are that, some1 tink we are not that, i must add, not all humans are he same, we, there are many genetycal things make us diferent, im sure us dont know... octopus are more smart that monkeys lol, well i tink we should finish this, anyway this will never end, u dont tink the same?

Well as a matter of fact, it has been proven that humans have a tail. And where is the tail? All thats left of it is a small stump of bone at the end of our backbone, this used to be our tail when we were apes(and the tail appears on an x ray if you have one done, and you can probably feel it if you prod in the right spot, so it is definetly there)

And I think most humans dont want to accept or know that we were apes before. Everybody wants to think that 'God made us this way and we didnt evolve from anything'

 

[Clint]

to be honest, i believe we have an essence. not really a soul or spirit. i think it might be part of us but and the real us but is always there occupying the same space we do, but maybe on a different plane of existance? who knows. i am in no way religious, but i've had many spiritual encounters what with the development of AP. in the past few decades.

very interesting read, endparenthesis. if you have a hammer and replace the metal head, then 10 years later replace the wooden handle, would it still be the same hammer? no.. it would be 2 parts of a new hammer.. or something.. it's 6:am and i havn't fed my caffein addiction yet... bye bye

 

[ZAK]

Ok,

I have read this entire thread, and I only have one thing to say

I want that ten min. of my life BACK

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ] the soul and spiryt is not same, they are very diferent

so what's the difference?

Quote[/b] ]and there'll be a point in the future where we'll understand the "wiring" of the brain well enough to replicate it in a way that's biologically compatible (or even biological, but those materials are too slow and inefficient to be appealing).

I'll see if I can get the article but already people can predict certain things... like what hand you will move, etc. by looking at brain scans or something.
Personally I believe that if we have souls, so do other animals and likely many other different organisms. If THEY don't, then I refuse to believe I have a soul. My lovebirds have as much "soul" as I do. (I don't know about my guineapig though... LOL jk)

Quote[/b] ]Well as a matter of fact, it has been proven that humans have a tail.

no we don't have a tail, we have a coccyx which is a "tailbone" but is different from a tail.

Quote[/b] ]this used to be our tail when we were apes(and the tail appears on an x ray if you have one done, and you can probably feel it if you prod in the right spot, so it is definetly there)

key words: used to be.
and no, apes don't have tails so it wasn't from when we were apes. it was from when apes were monkeys.

Quote[/b] ]And I think most humans dont want to accept or know that we were apes before

we still are.

Quote[/b] ]to be honest, i believe we have an essence. not really a soul or spirit

I believe (and we DO) that we have a personality, but soul? spirit? what the heck are they anyway? nobody can ever really explain it. If someone is brain damaged, did they damage their soul or something and that's why their "essence" (personality) changed? that makes no sense. I thought the soul was immortal...
it just makes no sense... how do you all soul believers uh... what about the brain? how do you ... dang it what's the word? make both fit together?

 

[ktulu]

windplant where did you find that octipi are more intellegent than monkeys? you can train a monkey to do quite complex tasks. I have never heard of an octopus(sp?) doing any complex tasks.

The coccyxgeal vertebrae (yes they are vertebrae) or "tail" is made up of 4 to 5 bones that would eventually form into a tail if humans had a tail. Humans do not so the vertebrae go through ossification into one bone. This is the reason that very rarely you will hear about someone being born with a "tail" that they have removed. It is not a true tail, but instead their body did not turn off the growth of the coccyxgeal vertebrae and they formed what looked like a tail.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]Humans are classified by taxonomists as apes; one of the defining derived characters of apes is the lack of an external tail. However, human embryos initially develop tails in development. At between four and five weeks of age, the normal human embryo has 10-12 developing tail vertebrae which extend beyond the anus and legs, accounting for more than 10% of the length of the embryo (Fallon and Simandl 1978; Moore and Persaud 1998, pp. 91-100; Nievelstein et al. 1993). The embryonic tail is composed of several complex tissues besides the developing vertebrae, including a secondary neural tube (spinal cord), a notochord, mesenchyme, and tail gut. By the eighth week of gestation, the sixth to twelfth vertebrae have disappeared via cell death, and the fifth and fourth tail vertebrae are still being reduced. Likewise, the associated tail tissues also undergo cell death and regress.

Quote[/b] ]Using light and scanning electron microscopy, several detailed analyses of the embryonic human tail have shown that the dead and degenerating tail cells are ingested and digested by macrophages (macrophages are large white blood cells of the immune system which more normally ingest and destroy invading pathogens such as bacteria) (Fallon and Simandl 1978; Nievelstein et al. 1993; Sapunar et al. 2001; Saraga-Babic et al. 1994; Saraga-Babic et al. 2002). In adult humans, the tail is finally reduced to a small bone composed of just four fused vertebrae (the coccyx) which do not protrude from the back (Fallon and Simandl 1978; Sapunar et al. 2001) (see Figure 2.4.1).

and also look at this

X-ray image of an atavistic tail found in a six-year old girl. A radiogram of the sacral region of a six-year old girl with an atavistic tail. The tail was perfectly midline and protruded form the lower back as a soft appendage. The five normal sacral vertebrae are indicated in light blue and numbered; the three coccygeal tail vertebrae are indicated in light yellow. The entire coccyx (usually three or four tiny fused vertebrae) is normally the same size as the fifth sacral vertebrae. In this same study, the surgeons reported two other cases of an atavistic human tail, one with three tail vertebrae, one with five. All were benign, and only one was surgically "corrected" for cosmetic reasons (image reproduced from Bar-Maor et al. 1980, Figure 3.)


I also hear it's not all THAT uncommon for people to be born with tails. They usually just take them away as soon as they're born, so many times they don't even know they were born with a tail.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

oh, reading further:

Quote[/b] ]Vertebrae and cartilage have occasionally been found in human tails. However, contrary to the claims of Gish, Menton, and ReMine, vertebrae are not a requirement for tails. M. sylvanus is a prime example of a primate whose fleshy tail lacks vertebrae (Hill 1974, p. 616; Hooten 1947, p. 23). Several cases are known where human tails have been inherited. Furthermore, we now know the genes responsible for the development of tails in mammals, and all humans have them. Inheritance of the tail structure per se is unnecessary since the developmental system has been inherited but is normally inactivated in humans. The "resemblance" to non-human tails is far from superficial, since all true human tails are complex structures composed of symmetrical layers of voluntary muscle, blood vessels, specialized nerves and sensing organs, and they can indeed move and contract.

For the skeptical reader, probably the best evidence that these structures are true tails is visual inspection. Photographic images of a newborn's atavistic tail can be found at the University of Iowa's Virtual Hospital site, complete with the voluntary contractory movement of the tail documented.

just imagine seeing a baby be born with a tail and it's moving it.... how weird

 

[Outsiders71]

If we evolved from Apes then where is the specie link between ape and human? Also usually during evolution doesn't the older specie die out, and the new evolved specie survive (since it was naturally selected for evolution). So why are there still Apes here today?

My belief is the one that is written in the book of truth. We were created by God. God created the other animals/beasts/life and set humans above them all. Whether or not evolution does exist, it's just another creation of God. As for the spiritual/soul discussion: It says in the bible that our bodies are temples that house our soul. If you do not believe you have a soul, then chances are you do not believe in God/Christ, and the devil is winning you

.

 

[Windplant]

WAIT, we still are??, excuse me u still are lol.

My belief is the one that is written in the book of truth. We were created by God. God created the other animals/beasts/life and set humans above them all. Whether or not evolution does exist, it's just another creation of God. As for the spiritual/soul discussion: It says in the bible that our bodies are temples that house our soul. If you do not believe you have a soul, then chances are you do not believe in God/Christ, and the devil is winning you .

Thats true, i agree w that, the soul and spyryt is diferent if u search many info, search abouth this, , well all monkeys, humans and creatures have a nice day

, good night.

 

[Windplant]

Wait again i tink this is a must say, i say all i say peacefull!, i dont wanna make some1 get mad..., i know many ppl tink diferent tinks, thats why this worl is so weird! or so common!, lol, i tink this discusion should end FOREVER i mean this si from always, always is some ppl say no and some say yes, imposible all tink same, until there are more cientyfic ppl say we are not monkeys or anyting like that, is more common ppl say yes. , but well who cares!, this is a never ending i say it again, anyway i just say we have someting they dont have, it cuould be diferent named... but my point is we are diferent, but maybe u 2 wont change u opinion, but i dot matter to me, i respect u tinkings, cuz i know many ppl say that, is common, i mean many ppl smoke is that bad?, here can beggin another discusion

, so lets talk abouth tings we agree all, plants are cool?, who say no? i tink no1, lol well have anice day ppl see ya.

 

[endparenthesis]

Quote[/b] ]If we evolved from Apes then where is the specie link between ape and human?

In hopefully chronological order...

Ardipithecus ramidus
Australopithecus anamensis
Australopithecus afarensis
Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus garhi
Australopithecus aethiopicus
Australopithecus robustus
Australopithecus boisei
Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo ergaster
Homo heidelbergensis

... with more to be discovered in the future. Plus I left a bunch out because I was really iffy on whether they were ancestors or offshoots of ancestors (like neanderthals). I'm sure some anthropology student will show up to correct me.

It's too bad some of these species aren't around now... it would make people think a little harder about all of this.

And keep in mind today's other apes had their own timelines, branching off from our ancestors (or maybe we did the branching). One can't search for a direct link between species that aren't even on the same branch... they just have common ancestors.

Quote[/b] ]Also usually during evolution doesn't the older specie die out, and the new evolved specie survive (since it was naturally selected for evolution).  So why are there still Apes here today?

Nope. There are plenty of situations where the two species continue on. For example, the same species may live in many different locations, with some locations being harsher and more encouraging of selection than others. But since over 95% of every species that ever lived is now extinct, the odds are usually pretty good that the older species isn't around anymore. And, again, today's apes aren't our ancestors anyway.