The oil industry discussion

[nrbelex]

People were talking about the effects of Katrina on the oil industry and then the indstry itself... which led to a conversation on the EPA's restrictions and the lack of incentive for the major oil producers to open plants, especially in the U.S. Well now we have a whole thread on it so chat away! My $0.02 worth is that we should throw more support behind Thermal Depolymerization as it seems to be the answer to more then just one of our problems.

An old USA Today article on TDP
An old Discover Magazine Article on TDP

~ Brett

 

[7santiago]

poeple are so stupid; water (H20),

hydrogen is a flamable and explosive so it can be used to run engines,

oxygen is what can save us from global warming
(its lack in the atnosphere is the cause of global warming)

when electricity is passed through water, water splits, negetive gets hydrogen molicules and posite gets oxygen.

if the hydrogen was used to power the engine this would end the use for gasoline, and the oxygen realiced would stop global warming and not only that but the amount of water will lower and give us more land.

Flawless? Maybe it will reverse global warming to global cooling?

 

[rattler]

the problem with Hydrogen fule is its a bit more touchy than gasoline in the flamibility area. but thats not anything that cant be over come. the main problem is getting hydrogen fueling stations to the far corners of the USA, untill this happens auto makers wont take making hydrogen powered vehicles seriously. in sorry but if a hydrogen pump isnt in Circle, Montana i have no interest in getting a hydrogen powered vehicle. this is one consept that ppl out side of the North east and southern California dont quite get. some of us in the mid west and western USA need to cover lots of ground and are in areas far removed from big cities, the largest city in Montana only has about 100,000 ppl. heck alot of places i have filled up with gas in Montana Wyoming and the Dakotas have two fuel pumps one diesel and one grade of gas. can you see these places adding a hydrogen pump for cars they may see a couple times a year?

Brett, interesting info, thanks for sharing, ill have to read up on it more

 

[Clint]

what would we do with all of the extra water as a byproduct? it would add up eventually.

 

[7santiago]

i wont produce water as a byproduct, it will expel oxygen and co2

 

[Clint]

oooh ok.

 

[lol]

Gas is gonna be a ***** . We are all so lucky that storm didn't go farther west. Our oil pumps and refineries would've been even worse off. Is it possible to get any useful energy by exposing metals to powerful microwaves, like if you put aluminum foil in a microwave?

 

[Clint]

i do know that microwaves from space can power stuff.

auctually i think we have a microwave tower on one of the mountains near me somewhere...

 

[lol]

No. I mean... like how they have nuclear power plants and the way those are constructed. Maybe you could have that same type of room where the reaction takes place, but instead you would flood the room with microwaves that would hit a ball of metal (the catalyst I guess), and as the microwaves hit the metal (aluminum), it would release energy that could be absorbed by panels on the walls of the room. I just don't know if it's possible, or how much energy could be made over the energy required for the reaction.

 

[adnedarn]

Hydrogen cars are not a thing of the future. They are a thing of now. What we need is people to buy and use them to show they are popular, reliable etc etc and get it to spread across the USA. Who can do this for all of us? Those people in California. A few months ago, i was researching hydrogen power and cars. When I came to a site of a company that sells hydrogen powered cars. Fords actually.... What about fill ups? Well acording to this site, there is currently 12 hydrogen fueling stations up and running in Cali. And many more are planned by the year 2010. Anyway, check out this site and learn some stuff... Oh and what about not buying a new can? Well acording to this site, to switch most current gas cars to hydrogen is a pretty simple solution. check it out... http://www.h2carco.com
Andrew

OH here is a cool quote from the site "Once an engine has been designed to run on hydrogen, it can also run on other gaseous fuels with the addition of a variable gaseous fuel (VGF) sensor. HCC offers customers the option of adding the VGF to its vehicles thus allowing them to run on hydrogen and /or compressed natural gas (CNG) in any combination. The benifit of this technology is that the customer can use natrual gas if or when hydrogen is not available."

 

[rattler]

well if thats the case than it may be a more widely accepted alternitave. ive seen vehicles that run quite effectivly off propane and get better MPG than with gasoline. last time i bought propane it was only a lil ways over $1 a gallon. i think natural gas is about the same but im not sure.

 

[adnedarn]

Plus, that site says that 1 kilo of hyrogen has the same energy content as a gallon of gasoline, but hydrogen cars get about 3 times the miles per kilo. The current cost though, of hydrogen has great variation... from about $1 to $20 a kilo.

I saw a list of other states that were ready to, or are currently adopting hydrogen filling stations but now i can't find it to list them.
EDIT: Found the list "California, illinois, and new yourk have announced hydrogen highway/roadmap initiatives and many other states are poised to follow"

I also read (CHECK THIS!) That there will be at home filling stations. Where you MAKE YOUR OWN HYDROGEN! Not have a tank filled.... MAKE YOUR OWN. Now THAT sounds cool!

 

[SarraceniaScott]

Quote[/b] (lol @ Aug. 30 2005,5:27)]No.  I mean... like how they have nuclear power plants and the way those are constructed.  Maybe you could have that same type of room where the reaction takes place, but instead you would flood the room with microwaves that would hit a ball of metal (the catalyst I guess), and as the microwaves hit the metal (aluminum), it would release energy that could be absorbed by panels on the walls of the room.  I just don't know if it's possible, or how much energy could be made over the energy required for the reaction.

Some have suggested geosynchronous satellites capturing solar energy, converting it to microwaves, and beaming them to a receiving station on earth. The antennae that receive the microwaves would convert them directly back to electricity. This is not unlike what you are seeing with aluminum foil in a microwave.

 

[herenorthere]

The US wastes too much energy to be able to replace any significant portion of it with anything else.  And there's no free lunch.  Yes, electricity splits water into hydrogen and oxygen.  But you'll get less energy from hydrogen than you put into the electricity that started the process.  The primary benefit of hydrogen powered cars is there'll be less pollution at the location of the car.  The pollution is somewhere else - wherever it was emitted while generating the energy needed for hydrogen production.

Nuclear power is only an option if the federal government shields industry from the potential liability.  You might recall that you have to pay your own insurance bills.  The nuclear power industry doesn't have to.

 

[adnedarn]

Bruce, I have found a PDF file "20 myths about hydrogen" and the one you bring up is very close to the top. You may view it at 20 hydrogen myths'
Andrew

 

[nrbelex]

lol appears to be describing the Solar power satellite.

Quote[/b] ] --From Wikipedia-- A solar power satellite, or SPS, is a proposed satellite built in high Earth orbit that uses microwave power transmission to beam solar power to a very large antenna on Earth where it can be used in place of conventional power sources. The advantage to placing the solar collectors in space is the unobstructed view of the Sun, unaffected by the day/night cycle, weather, or seasons. However, the costs of construction are very high, so it is unlikely the SPS will be able to compete with conventional sources unless there is a big reduction in the costs associated with launching massive satellites into space, unless a space-based manufacturing industry develops and they can be built in orbit.

Once again, I point out that Thermal Depolymerization already exists and has proven itself in its testing as a new source of oil. Really I don't see why the technology hasn't 't caught on as there's no catch.

Anyone interested should also check out the Alternatives to oil page on Wikipedia.

~ Brett

 

[endparenthesis]

Quote[/b] (7santiago @ Aug. 30 2005,3:37)]oxygen is what can save us from global warming
(its lack in the atnosphere is the cause of global warming)

CO2 is the main cause of global warming. Oxygen and CO2 exist in the atmosphere independently... more of one doesn't cause less of the other. Oxygen doesn't have much to do with it.

 

[Pyro]

Quote[/b] (7santiago @ Aug. 30 2005,4:49)]i wont produce water as a byproduct, it will expel oxygen and co2

A basic knowledge of chemistry would argue that you are wrong.

H2O --electrolysis--> 2H + O --combustion--> H2O

It is a closed system, if you seperate the oxygen from the hydrogen you then need that same oxygen to burn the hydrogen later. All burning processes require oxygen, burning is nothing more than a really rapid form of oxidation. Without oxygen the hydrogen will not burn and thus you would have no power.

Also, since there is no carbon in the system you won't get any CO2 either.

It is also worthwhile to note that increasing the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere would actually be a bad thing. Too much of the stuff and the oxidative processes accelerate and that means that things like forest fires would be epically larger, smoking a cigarette could actually catch you on fire and your kitchen would be significantly more prone to bursting into flames while you cook. Not to mention that increased concentrations of it are toxic...

 

[nrbelex]

I filled up just over 1/2 the tank in my Toyota Camry today (my TOYOTA CAMRY) in preparation for the expected price spike and it cost $35.

Just for emphasis, I will rewrite what I just wrote:

Quote[/b] ]I filled up just over 1/2 the tank in my Toyota Camry today (my TOYOTA CAMRY) in preparation for the expected price spike and it cost $35.

Gas here in Scarsdale, New York (a suburb of New York City in Westchester County) for regular (the lowest) is $2.959 and I took in 11.828 gallons.


This is well beyond ridiculous. Just venting...

~ Brett

 

[rattler]

$2.55 here but it hasnt taken the jump yet from the hurricane.