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Thread: Nice evolution controversy article

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    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting (and long) article from our Sunday paper - http://www.courant.com/news....rtheast - which'll probably be available free online for a couple more days.

    We don't need yet another hastily typed, poorly spelled debate here. The article gives a nice overview and says where to read more. None of us have anything worth adding.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    Your link got screwed up.

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    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Thanks - it should work now.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    The other day I read a chapter from Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene (the chapter "Selfish Genes and Selfish Memes"... I was reading a different book that had it as an excerpt), and it had a really interesting, elemental perspective on evolution that I hadn't been exposed to before. Great read.

    Still reading the article, but I don't want a debate to start up either. Doing one big comprehensive one is nice... but after that it's just going in circles. I should exercise self-restraint and not contribute, but when someone has a blatantly inaccurate concept of the science they're arguing against (you know, so wrong that it sounds like their school never even taught them about it, hmm), I feel like I'm doing something wrong by holding back information.

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    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    It still boils down to whom or what initiated all this: God or randomness. I say skip the how to's and how long's and get to the bottom line. We weren't there for the details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]the incredibly slow, chance processes of evolution cannot have led to such evidently engineered structures as the biochemical machinery of the living cell
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]God or randomness. I say skip the how to's and how long's and get to the bottom line. We weren't there for the details.
    wrong. There's nothing random about evolution, as it is natural SELECTION. If they/you were reffering to abiogenesis, then that doesn't involve evolution, and it's not random either. The laws of nature aren't random. this will bond with that, etc. You can't say snowflakes, with their incredible complexity, formed from anything random.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]leading intelligent design theorists Phillip Johnson and Michael Behe (bee-hee).
    but of course intelligent design is not a theory, or even a hypothesis.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] A 2004 Gallup poll that asked their views on human origins found only a small fraction (13 percent) believe life arose strictly from the natural processes of evolution
    argh! evolution does not say anything about the origins of life darnit!
    well, I haven't finished reading it but i'm tired.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense - an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection - is not. Any system of thought that denies or seeks to explain away the overwhelming evidence for design in biology is ideology, not science," the cardinal wrote.
    that's driving me nuts. he obviously doesn't know a thing about evolution, science, or the evidence. I'll reply by saying that evolution isn't random (as i said already), and they're the ones ignoring the evidence against design... or at least about bad design. http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm
    How can a perfect being create such unperfect things? and why?
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]he argues that only in a world where the laws of nature are not absolute can free will and miracles (which by definition are outside nature) be possible
    if you want to say that quantum mechanics are because of free will, then you would have to say that the piece of paper to my right also has free will because the same things that atoms do in my body are also happening in that piece of paper.
    besides, you can predict what atoms will do. I'm not saying I know much about quantum mechanics, but in chemistry we were taught about how the negative and positive charges and blah blah. Even if i'm wrong, I KNOW you can predict things in the "big" scheme of things. like radioactive dating, etc. It's not about how predictable single atoms are, but about what most atoms do, etc.
    besides (like I said I don't really know about quantum mechanics... i'm sure plenty of you know more than I do so please correct me), The way I understand it, we don't understand exactly what goes on inside atoms. We can't even see single atoms, and we only know that gluons, quarks, etc. exist because we smash subatomic particles together and they come out. That's like smashing a computer and seeing it's components to see how it works.
    one cannot say a computer is random because we don't know what goes on inside it.

    *trying hard not to give links about intelligent falling* :P
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

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    herenorthere's Avatar
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    To quote the title of the current road rage topic; "it doesn't pay to get all worked up."
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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