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  • #21
A bog garden is a series of tubes.
Just like the internet :)
 
  • #22
I really like your bog garden. A very good concept that I may have to try this summer. I apologize, but I have a question about the oxygenation of the roots. I may be getting to technical (sometimes my chemistry and physics degrees get in the way of my thinking:crazy: ). I understand the roots need some air (oxygen) to keep them healthy and prevent bacterial growth and rot. I also understand how water oxygenates when it becomes agigitated or falls through the air. I also understand that standing water in the pot becomes stagnant and can eventually lead to rot.

My questions are:
#1. Does the circulation of the water allows the water and gaseous air to pass over the roots?
#2. Does the circulation of water allows it to be in contact with the surrounding air and preventing the formation of the "bad" bacteria from developing?
#3. Or, do the roots use the dissolved oxygen in the water?

What I'm not sure about are that the roots are like the gills of a fish or the inside of our lungs (or the skin of an earthworm).

The fish's gills can extract the dissolved oxygen from the water so that it can survive. This is the reason if you have a bunch of fish in a tank, you need an aerator(sp?) to help increase the dissolved oxygen levels in the water.

The inside of our lungs has a thin film of water on them (or similar to the skin of an earthworm). That film of water is not necessary to become oxygenated, but it allows oxygen to pass from the air through the cell lining of our lungs. Even if you pump a lot of oxygenated water into our lungs...you'll still drown. The same is true with earthworms. When it rains, the worms' holes become flooded and the worms leave their holes so that they won't drown. Their skins must be moist and exposed to the air for them to survive, but once you remove the water or if they have too much water, they die.

Sorry for the questions. (It's past 3:00am, I've been recovering from a migraine, had 4 cups of strong coffee, and I can't get to sleep :0o: )

Again, the setup is great. I can't wait to do the same. I just would like to know more of the biochemistry of the roots.

Have a great day!
Dwight
 
  • #23
Yes! Your emoticon looks overamped from the caffeine!!!! Too much of a good thing!

Your questions are well put. Being as the water is always moving below the surface of the soil base, the soil is wet from the water underneath it. As the water level drops through natural drainage, it pulls O2 into the soil on a regular basis, constantly oxygenating the base.
The why's and hows, I will leave to the technical talking types. I only know it works, and works well. I experience few problems with the garden other than the occasionally failing pump. Otherwise, I have plants that are thriving in this environment. One S. X areolata "Citronelle White Beauty" was an incredibly slow grower, 3 leaves per growing season, no more. On suspicion concerning the pot in tray method it was in, I moved it in fall into the Circulating bog. Come spring, it came "out of the gates" with an incredible rise in growth rate. Instead of 3 leaves for an entire growing season, I got 6 leaves in spring, and 5 in the summer. The rhizome, which for 3 years prior to this, seemed to not grow at all, suddenly got huge, and spread VERY well for the first season in this bog. Soon, the advent of spring will tell me even more about the improvement of its growth rate, and all because the growing environment emulated its own. A healthy bog with water moving through it is a key factor to healthy growth, and I strongly reccommend it to all. Its robustness was also improved through this beneficial move. I cannot answer your questions to the extent you want them answered, I only understand results. And I would not go back to the tray method for ANY reason after the growth rates in this bog tripled. Due to, I believe, the health of the soil base because of fresh air being pulled through it. And I love the quiet dripping of ever moving water as it runs through the growing media and falls into the resorvoir below.
 
  • #24
What type of circulating pump are you using?
 
  • #25
A home depot 60 GPH pump. Do not know the manufacturer. I am also going to try Lowe's. They have them down to 30GPH. Also, adjustable speed aquarium pumps will work. I have used them too. I am going to try a rheostat inline to control water speed to see what happens in this pot.
 
  • #26
Hey Steve, if you need an official photographer just let me know :) I promise I wont get you into more than a dozen shots or so.. hehehe
 
  • #27
Bugweed,

A rheostat will probably result in early motor death, most AC motors are not forgiving of voltage drops in excess of 10%, as RPM drops so does inductive reactance and counter EMF which can result in higher motor current and heat.
In industry you would normally use an adjustable frequency drive for AC motor speed control and pulse width modulation for DC motor speed control

there may be DIY frequency drive plans out there somewhere, Ill look around.... DIY PWM is relatively easy and economical, but DIY frequency drives might be another matter

bypassing some of the pump output back to reservoir would be one option I would think, just don't ever restrict a pumps inlet, this can lead to cavitation and pump damage

also consider that the flow through the pump is what cools and lubricates the pump....

just recalled once seeing a diode used to give an ac motor a lower speed, this would block half the sine wave.... hmmmm still would reduce CEMF and Z, but would also reduce overall current and heat..... LOL need an EE

Cheers'
Av

well, its not too bad... basic PWM circuit with low pass filter and a few other goodies to reshape the wave and step the voltage back up
 
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  • #28
Anybody still have the pics from the original post to rehost them? ???
 
  • #29
so this would just circulate the whole time and you wouldnt have to water the bog?

i thought about a similar setup consisting of a bin with a hole drilled out about 5-6 from the bottom with a bulkhead fitting installed and having it flow to a separate reservoir(~40 gallons) and having the water pumped back(maybe on timer depending) thru a soaker type hose placed just underneath the surface of the mix...would that be enough to not have to manually water them? the automation of the growing would be nice.

~b
 
  • #30
Its my understanding that the circulating water keeps the water from becoming stagnant and also feeds a high amount of oxygen to the roots. However, not being mechanically inclined, I have not built one of these. :)
 
  • #31
So what type of media mix does everyone recommend for a circulating bog? Someone posted that perlite should be kept to a minimum so I must ask do I just mix like a 20/80 perlite/peat? I plan on mixing everything tomorrow. Also, my setup is going to pump in water at ~5" from the top of the bog and drain at the same level on the opposite side, both with ebb & flow type bulkheak fittings, any foreseeable problems with this? screens and sediment prefilters will be installed as well to prevent peat run-off.

im going to drive around and find a whiskey barrel half to install the pond liner into, it should work great, if im correct...

thanks,
~b
 
  • #32
So what type of media mix does everyone recommend for a circulating bog? Someone posted that perlite should be kept to a minimum so I must ask do I just mix like a 20/80 perlite/peat?

If perlite should be kept to a minimum, then how about zero percent perlite? ;)
thats the percentage I would use..
I dont understand why anyone uses perlite for anything..totally unnecessary IMO.

Scot
 
  • #33
i was under the impression that it was a necessity for drainage purposes, guess not. also, should i top the minibog with lfs? i think thats the last of it before its complete, thanks.

~b
 
  • #34
I agree Scot. Perlite is not in nature. We tend to pamper our plants too much LOL.

My circ bog has a layer of gravel on the bottom to help with drainage the peat on stop is straight peat. I have some live LFS growing up there too because I like how it looks and the plants just grow up through it.
 
  • #35
Well... it is natural but not in the way we think of and use it.

A great alternative is Schultz's Profile. It's heavier that perlite, but still very light. I recommend it; I'd never use pure peat for anything (circulating or otherwise!).

Wash the hell out of it if you decide to use it. It's very, very, very dusty.
 
  • #36
Why not Clint. I use pure peat for alot of things. What do you think are in peat bogs. LOL My sars are doing good and ith the layer of gravel on the bottom they do not have the over flow problem. I am thinking about not using peat for my Neps any more though. I am going to try to grow hydroponicaly soon. I think it would work great and I wouldn't need to water. Have the pump on a timer around the clock. Good arration in the water and the plants will stay constantly watered every 20 to 30 min or so the pump will come on with fresh oxygenated water for 30 to 45 min then let the cycle continue like that with rockwool as the substraight or maybe primeagra or something like that. Going to try on a ventrata cutting when i get up to MN. That way I can automat my entire growroom LOL
 
  • #37
great I have a setup that sounds similiar to what is being described for my darlingtonia,here are some pics.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r62/hive_man/carnivores/febuary sixteenth 2008/DSCF2080.jpg

after reading that plants grow more robust and healthier and that soil lasts longer and you get more divisions I might try doing this I have a irrigation kit that I could use and I could stick a nozzle in each of my sarracenia and flytrap pots but it would be a nightmare to elevate 20 or so plants out of the water reservoir.
Do you think the water will still circulate if I had the plants sitting in the water reservoir?
 
  • #38
Oh I am also wondering about placing a thin layer of LFS moss in the bottom of the pots to prevent media from being washed out of the drainage holes in the pot which could get in the water reservoir and possibly ruin your pump.
Anybody else try this?
 
  • #39
dm, this is basically what i have on mine for both the inlet and drain, the plastic little screw on screen really helps with bigger pieces of debris but i did pile a good bit of perlite around it just to make sure it caught smaller pieces.

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/ebb-flow-fittings-c-422_475_477.html

oh, and they have addon pieces that will allow you to adjust the height of the drain and inlet.

~b
 
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  • #40
Thanks billy, I might try to find a simpler way to try this method but use it large scale I want to own a nursery someday and if this helps plants grow more robust then so be it.
thats why I am going to try this with a four foot under the bed storage container I need to develop someway to elevate each pot out of the water maybe some pvc pipes and eggcrate.
 
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