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Grow shelf and Lighting question

Hey Y'all,

I'm in the process of building a growshelf for some of my plants. I've been looking at the forums and I really like the wire shelves people are using. I've kept aquariums for MANY years and knowing that the 4' bulbs for my 75 gallon are easier to find than the 3' bulbs for my 135 gallon, I decided to buy a 4 foot shelf.

I found a hydroponics store in the area and picked up a nice roll of mylar that I'm going to use around the shelf to reflect the light back on to the plants. I'm planning on fastening that onto one side of a shower curtain to make it a little more durable. I'm anticipating that there will be some water building up on the mylar from condensation and misting and our friend gravity will pull it down. This leads to my first question:

1) Has anyone tried to use anything to catch water underneath their growshelves? Boot trays? Oil pans? Etc? Any suggestions?

I've done several searches through the forums and I've gone through so many posts that my eyes are starting to cross. I didn't have to work this hard to write one of my college research papers for my linguistics classes.

2) While I was at the hydroponics store, I saw these nifty little T5 flourescent light fixtures. I've tried to do some research on them as well and I haven't been able to find a good comparison between the T5's, T8's, and T12's. Is the added expense of T5's worth the difference in light output? I've read so much on lighting that my brain is sore...
 
1) Has anyone tried to use anything to catch water underneath their growshelves? Boot trays? Oil pans? Etc? Any suggestions?

I use glass lasagna containers.

1) Has anyone tried to use anything to catch water underneath their growshelves? Boot trays? Oil pans? Etc? Any suggestions?

I've done several searches through the forums and I've gone through so many posts that my eyes are starting to cross. I didn't have to work this hard to write one of my college research papers for my linguistics classes.

2)I've tried to do some research on them as well and I haven't been able to find a good comparison between the T5's, T8's, and T12's. Is the added expense of T5's worth the difference in light output?

T5's are definately the sexiest of all those; however, I just use T12's and they work fine. It all depends on your budget.

I've done several searches through the forums and I've gone through so many posts that my eyes are starting to cross.

Isn't it great?

xvart.
 
For the water issue, you can see a few of the different things that I use to deal with it. I didn't go with a 'universal' tray that took up the entire shelf since I have a lot of different plants that like to do different things. Some like the extra humidity of sitting above water, some like sitting in it, some just don't care. I found the steralite tubs at walmart to be very cheap, come in different sizes, and I wouldn't mind cutting it up if I needed to.

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109483
 
Hmm, xvart, so I hear you say that the difference is not enough to justify the added expense? Budget is not an issue. My original plan was to use compact flourescents, but because of the reading I've been doing, I've seen the trend is to use T12's instead of other things. I want to get as much light as possible, but keep heat to a minimum (don't we all). I'm going to be using this for U. alpina, a Heliamphora hybrid, and some Sarracenia seedlings for the moment. Later this winter, I'll be moving my Nepenthes and tropical Drosera in from ouside.
 
He's saying T12's work fine, and that's not the same as saying they are as good as T5's. When people are talking about T5's, they aren't JUST talking about the size; they are also talking about the intensity. T5's in this context are HO, whereas regular T12's are NO. T12's also come in VHO but no one ever talks about those. In fact, I think I'm the only one I've ever read about who used VHO. I can say they were good, but if I had a time machine and could go back in time I'd go PC instead.


If you just don't care about the cost, go with an 8 lamp T5 fixture. You won't regret it if you have the money and don't mind spending it. Otherwise, get as many PC's over your area as you can fit.

Here is an 8 lamp tek light. 400 bucks. Last unit on the page.
http://homeharvest.com/teklighthighoutputfluorescents.htm



If heat wasn't an issue, or you had a big room to disperse the heat, I'd say go with metal halide over everything else. A big factor with T5's is the sexiness of them, too. Everyone like tiny little lights (really surprisingly thin if you've ever seen them in person. They look really breakable :( ) so that's a big reason why they cost so much.

Adding mylar to the sides will also really up your light levels, too. I even have mylar on the BOTTOM of my terrarium.
 
Yes, Clint was correct. T5's are definitely better than T12's; but at this point in my horticultural career I personally can't justify the added expense of the lights to my budget. T12's work fine for me. I would much rather have T5's!

xvart.
 
Are T12's adequate for D. ordensis & paradoxa? Coincidently, I was planning on buying a pair of those.
 
Of course they are. Just put them close to the lamps. They won't mind the head at all.
 
Yeah, I'm quite familiar with halides and VHO flourescents. I had a 135 gallon reef tank for years that I lit with halides and at the time (this was about 10 years ago) T12 VHOs and halides were the thing. I just haven't been able to find a lot of information about the T5s. I got out of the reefing hobby after I moved and went with discus and Tanganyikan cichlids.

I agree with the mylar; I made a note in my previous post that I was lining the sides of the growshelf with it. I grew lowland Nepenthes for a while in an old aquarium that I converted to a terrarium and I lined the side with aluminum foil (this was before I knew mylar could be bought in rolls). I guess I didn't make my question clear with the water here though. I wasn't asking about what to put on the shelves to catch the water. I'm working on the assumption that water will condense ON the mylar sides and the mylar sides will also get wet when I mist the plants. That water has to go somewhere (obviously down). I was curious as to what (if anything) that the more growshelf-experienced folks were using to catch this "runoff" UNDER the shelf to keep the water off the floor?

I also didn't say that T5s and T12s are the same, and I didn't make any reference to the size of the bulbs. I'm aware that the T5s are more intense, but they ARE considerably more expensive than T12s. My question was "is the difference in intensity enough to justify the cost?" I'm not worried about the expense of it and I'm not worried about the sexiness of it - the practicality is more important to me. Why spend a ton of money on lights if the output difference is negligible? I might be able to afford a Mercedes, but a Honda does the job. :)

I don't think halides are a viable option with a growshelf. One of the benefits (for me) of the shelf is to have a large number of plants in a vertical space. If you were to put halides on each shelf, it'd be supremely tough to dissipate the heat from the bulb so it wouldn't fry the plants. Besides, can you imagine what running 5 halides would do to your electric bill? :) Besides, the growshelf is 48" by 18". The effective footprint of a halide would be much larger than that and would be a waste of resources in my opinion.

Basically, to sum it all up, the difference of intensity between T5s and T12s is large enough to justify the extra expense, but T5s are not as intense as CFs.

Thanks for the input guys! I appreciate it! :)

Later,
Will
 
  • #10
Yes, t-5s are definitely way more expensive. I would recommend the t-8's. Most shoplites can now use either t-8's or 12's. The t-8's are more efficient and usually use 32 watts instead of 40, with the same or more light output. The t-8's are about $3 a piece for daylight ones. You can get 2 shoplights and 4 bulbs for about $32 (128 watts) vs. a 2 tube t5 (108 watts) at $180 or so!
Peter.
 
  • #11
I'm going to say, yes. T5's are worth the cost if you don't mind spending the money. Get an 8 lamp fixture if you can. To save a little cash and still have a nice system, go with PC.


Can NO T5 lamps be overdriven the same way a T12 NO lamp can be overdriven on a VHO ballast? If so, then there's an option to save money and get almost the same output at the expense of a shorter lamp life.
 
  • #12
I haven't seen anything in any of my reading about being able to overdrive T5s. I would think the ballasts are different enough that you couldn't do it. From my understanding, T5's use a solid state ballast which doesn't generate noise or heat, unlike a T12 ballast which generates a lot of heat.

Will
 
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