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My plans for 2' x 4' growing chamber - UPDATE: Work on it has begun!

My wife has finally given me the okay to go ahead and grow CPs again! But she has limited me to one single tank. With that as a guideline I am planning the biggest tank I can make and still be able to grow a good variety of beginner CPs in 4 inch or greater individual pots using the tray method to water them. I look to only grow VFTs, hardy highland Neps, Drosera in a large tray sitting on a pedestal closer to the light source, and some other easy to grow varieties. (See below for the plants I am hoping will make it in this chamber.)

http://picasaweb.google.com/aking81/Me#5255057027314087506
Growing%20Chamber.png

Hope the pic is easy enough to read on all your screens. But here are my plans in a nutshell:

2' x 4' feet growing space
Three 4' long light fixtures carrying two T12 6500K bulbs each for a total of six bulbs providing loads of lighting
Two 1' x 4' Mirrors on the back fit snugly side by side
Four 1' x 1' Mirrors will also be fastened perfectly flush on each side to reflect light
2' x 4' Plexiglass piece will separate growing chamber humidity from light fixtures
2' x 4' Plexiglass piece will fit over 2' x 4' growing chamber wood base and will provide a seal between mirrors and wood base to assist humidity and waterproofing
2' x 4' Plexiglass front cover hinged along upper edge. (Pic doesn't show it, but a 1" x 3'10" wood piece would run the back of the upper edge of cover.)
Chamber will be in a basement apartment that will never get warmer than 80 Fahrenheit (26 celsius) on the hottest summer day if EVER, and the night drop is mild to maybe 60 degrees (15.5 celsius) on the coldest winter night.
Tropicals will be fine if the humidity is sufficient.
Temperates will be easily removed for their dormancy.

The only thing I am concerned about is the humidity. Having a front cover the length of the growing chamber will release far too much humidity and I don't want to worry about how long or how often I open the front. I am certain the light will be more than enough to get the Neps to pitcher. The space provided should be enough if I keep pruning back when necessary.

Anyone see a problem with the space and the far too great an opening? I welcome any criticism. :D

Perhaps this plan is sufficient and all that is left is to test it by growing some plants in it. So, even if very little feedback is necessary I will continue to use this same thread to provide updates on the building of it and how the plants do when I get some in the future.

P.S. Here are the plants I am confidant will likely survive after adjusting and that I will certainly enjoy growing them. Some of these I have just always wanted to grow so I am hoping they will survive. Please let me know if you believe these conditions are stretching it for any of these plants:

Larger pots in back:
Heliamphora anything lower humidity hardy and warmth friendly
N. ventricosa
N. tentaculata
N. maxima

Middle size to larger pots:
VFTs
D. capensis
Byblis liniflora
Mexican pings of any variety
U. reniformis (always wanted to grow one, but probably do fairly well being a tropical Utric.)
D. extrema
N. glabrata
Cephalotus (Haven't grown one before, but I assume Ceph would like the temps and humidity level if kept around 25% but maybe stretching it here with lighting.)

Small pots in Drosera water tray on pedestal nearer lighting:
D. aliciae
D. prolifera
D. falconeri
D. macrophylla
D. ramellosa
D. cistiflora (will enjoy a larger pot when older)
D. pauciflora
D. paradoxa
(It is more likely that I can find these drosera through buying seed rather than adult plants, so anyone think seed spread conservatively in a 4-inch pot closer to lights going to be a problem?)
 
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Well, you'll catch plenty of flak round here growing VFTs under lights. They do their best in full sun and do not realize their full potential in terrariums.

I have found humidity to be severely overrated if you buy from a decent nursery that hardens off their plants before selling them. Even if you don't most plants can be acclimated to lower humidity, and are usually more resilliant because of it.

I'd be careful with neps in a terrarium, glabrata is a good choice, but you're going to eventually have size issues with a maxima. And if you have to move your neps out of their cage, you're gonna have wife issues ^^.

Good luck!

-Jason

edit: Also, look into mylar sheet as an alternative to mirrors
 
I just built a chamber near that size myself. I think your design plan sounds really good. The only thing that caught my attention as a possible issue was growing highland Neps in with wooly sundews (D. paradoxa/falconeri) unless your idea is to produce more heat at the top with the lights. Just my opinion. I would turn it into a highland chamber for moderate highlands such as the Neps you mentioned. In my experience the petiolaris sundews like to stay above 70F and would not cut the low temps I subject my tentac, ramispina, spectabilis, and etc. to.

Your design sound good to me. Wish I had a basement.
 
Well, you'll catch plenty of flak round here growing VFTs under lights. They do their best in full sun and do not realize their full potential in terrariums.

ive got one growing under lights......but ive killed plenty cause they didnt like it.....ppl have done it so if yah want to go for it have at it, but i killed near 100 VFT's before i found one that tolerates being grown under lights well

ill echo DroseraBug.......petiolaris like it warm............
 
I haven't looked over your list of plants really.. You will have to decide what temperature range you are planning on keeping and take it from there. I would determine what your normal day and night temps are going to be and take it from there compiling your growlist.

How tall is the unit inside? The thing with regular T12 fluorescent.. they are only so bright and the plants need to be fairly close regardless of how many you have. If you want to have your plants not be right up against the bulbs then you need to use something that is going to produce more intense light so that it is bright enough further away from the bulbs. Like high output or compact fluorescent etc. Don't skimp on the lighting.. it will make or break your success with the terrarium. Particularly if you are looking to grow plants that normally are out in the full sun. Even with a sweet set of T5 high output tubes you wouldn't have too much light for any of the plants on your list.

My only other concern is the plexiglass across the top between the light fixture and the terrarium. Plexiglass in a horizontal orientation needs alot of support under it or it will sag horribly. Personally I would use glass. It is more fragile but it won't sag, light transmission is better, much less prone to scratching when cleaning and it's cheap!
 
wow, quite thorough, hope everything works out as you planned, sounds ideal to me, great idea for the mirrors, you`ll definately up the lumens that way (just make sure they are close enough, i use t5 High Output lights and they don`t heat up as much), about the sliding door, i can`t think of anything that comes to mind to solve your humidity loss prob, i agree with tony about the plexi glass, especially with the length of your setup, it will definately sag without proper support
Good luck with your project!
Happy Growing
Steven
 
I feel a bit ashamed that I never responded back to all your thoughtful replies. :blush:

I had a major hiccup in my plans and that hiccup was my wife. But almost two years later, her little brother moving out from our small apartment, and through my constant begging I have been able to convince my wife to allow me to grow CPs again! :D WOOHOO!

The catch is that I won't be building as massive a growing space although the corner she has kindly "allowed" me to keep a terrarium is giving me just enough space to fit a 2' deep and 4' long setup.

I am looking around for an appropriate setup to build this on top of, but I fully expect to have something that looks like the picture I originally posted. The question about my setup I am curious about most is whether I should make the growing chamber shorter. With 6 x T12 bulbs being the most likely choice for lighting from the given space, should I make this chamber shorter?

2 feet seems too short already, and I am hoping the mass covering of mirrors on all surfaces will help make the loss of light minimal.

Plants: Wooly sundews are out of question, and many neps are out of the question too.

What I am going to do is get this setup up and running on the light timer and then I am going to take humidity and temperature readings throughout the days for a week. Once I see what kind of conditions I have, perhaps some of you will be willing to offer your two cents on what I can expect to enjoy growing in there. :D

Thanks again for your replies ... er um... 2 years ago!
 
Odysseus I think I responded to you on CPUK but maybe I just think I did! I read your post a few times over there anyway. Get rid of the wife then you can have all the plants you want! :D


If you use 6x 40 W T12s (240 W apx. 18000 lumens) I don't see why Nepenthes are out of the question in a tank that size. I used six T12 over a 4 L x 4 H x 2 W for many years flowering a number of species as well. I also put the same amount of light over a 75 gallon tank which is either 20" or 24"H. It's plenty big enough to grow Neps to short vine stage, some will even flower I'll almost guarantee it depending on what species you've got and regardless, as long as you keep the growing tip you'll have the most mature part of your plant which will one day god willing, flower for you! lol When Neps get too long just chop them back and make new plants out of the stem sections. Sell the cuttings to pay for replacement bulbs or R/O filter cartridges or trade them to others for new species. I mean you can even have a N. rajah or N. bicalcarata (depending on what temps and humidity you have obviously), not up to maturity in that size container of course as these two get huge in diameter but in a year or two maybe the wife will start to get into the plants and let you go one step bigger in your growing arrangement. Or you can simply concentrate on the smaller Neps like N. jamban, N. aristolochioides, N. jacquelineae, etc. But of course you'll need highland conditions to keep most of the smaller Neps happy and flourishing.
 
2' is pushing it, I have a tank about that size but its only 1.5' tall, with 6 T12 tubes my neps were all pretty happy, even my drosera were all happy at that distance... 6'' though makes a ton of difference...

i'd skip the plexiglass between the lights... go glass if you have to have something there...

humidity should be one the smallest issues you have, its an easy fix :)

as far as neps outgrowing the tank, it does happen but it doesn't happen quickly if your buying plants that aren't from mature cuttings...

i've had neps for a very long time that havn't outgrown my tank yet...

good luck!
 
  • #10
@ Swords

Yes I did see your reply over at CPUK, but you added even more helpful advice in this post than the great advice you already gave there so I am glad that you posted twice on the subject! :D

I am glad to hear from both you and Cmm that Neps aren't out of the question, the cutting back necessity is something I am perfectly willing to handle in order to get the satisfaction that comes from watching a Nepenthes pitcher up. It is awesome watching the growth of a pitcher. I will have to take it slow to add Neps to my collection as I won't quite have the budget to buy many of them, but I will certainly look into getting some of those smaller growing ones you mentioned, swords. Sounds perfect for my situation.

Now, an N. bical? SERIOUSLY?? :D I hope that the temps and humidity pan out that I can have an N. bical, that is my favorite Nep of all and I would be friggin' stoked to have one of those growing in here. It's probably one of the easiest plants to show friends and get them to say "WOAH! That IS cool!" even if they don't get CPs or even plants for that matter.

I will keep you posted on the readings I get from my tank once it is finished and see if you think I can handle a bical and then if so I will pay any price to snag one of those! :D Booyaw!

@ CMM889

Depending on the setup I land, I may have a full 2' from lights to the base of my growing chamber. But I can stack pots to bring certain plants closer to the lights and make up that critical 6 inches if it happens that way. But ppl in the area keep giving away my best prospects for a growing chamber starter, so I may end up with something a foot and a half tall and will have all the light I need. :D About the plexiglass, you are absolutely right. It will bow and I am going to have to buy the glass for the divider between the plants and the lights. Yeah humidity without having to spray will be the question, but in the past my pots in standing water gave off enough local humidity and the tank more often than not had condensation because of the humidity so I think you are right. Easy to fix. :D

With yours and Swords encouraging remarks I am looking forward to the Neps I can put in this tank. I am excited! :D

Will keep you guys posted on the progress of the chamber.
 
  • #11
Jan. 16th Saturday - Building my Growing Chamber

Ok...through a compromise with my wife I have had to temper my plans down a bit, I am still stoked that she is allowing me to do this but this is much smaller than I had hoped. I have found a suitable structure for me to use. This is a simple entertainment center meant for TVs and DVD collections, but at $25 from a thrift store it was a cheap option for an initial structure. There will be plenty of growing space if I take advantage of it correctly.

growingchamber_Jan16.jpg


To summarize all my dimensions above: this is roughly 4 feet wide, 3 and a half feet tall, with only 15 inches of depth.

I can either use this entertainment center setup to attach lights over some tanks, or I can build in some growing chambers with mirrors, glass, and waterproofing caulk. But, to be realistic, since this is just cheap particle board I wouldn't really want to invest too much work into it, so without changing anything, only adding lights, I am more likely going to just get some tanks to put in these spaces. Now, I can go with a big tank and one little one, or even:

Three Tank Option:
I could have three separate growing chambers with the potential for differing conditions. Here are the dimensions of the three spaces:

Largest growing chamber: 23" tall x 29" wide x 15" deep
Taller than wider chamber: 23" tall x 17-18" wide x 15" deep
Long and low chamber: 14" tall x 31-32" wide x 15" deep

The benefit here is that I won't have to do anything but work in some lights. I can easily find two tanks to sit in the top spaces. A tall 20 gallon and a larger 30-40 gallon. I wonder if 15 inches will be too shallow for those tanks to rest sturdily. But all in all, this setup is the fastest way I can get going and have plants growing in no time. The most difficult part will be the unique lighting dimensions, but 6-inch florescent bulbs can be attached all over the top if that is going to be the best solution.

Then there is the....

Big Tank Option:
If find a way to support the structure without it, I could knock out that middle wall in the upper section and make use of the full 4 feet length. I am disappointed that I only have 15 inches of depth to work with here, but if I can make it 4 feet of space to spread out I could be ok with it. Plus the ease of placing 4 foot long tubes of lighting I could be fine with the lack of real shelf depth.

Using the large space to grow several similar climate plants, and then using the small long chamber below as I have mentioned in the paragraphs above isn't a terrible setup either. Here are the dimensions if I did this plan:

Largest growing chamber: 23" tall x 46-48" wide x 15" deep
Long and low chamber: 14" tall x 31-32" wide x 15" deep

So, any thoughts on which is better for this particular situation?

One large growing space plus one small - or - not messing with a good structure and having smaller but three separate growing spaces?
 
  • #12
Well things have changed since this last post. I was able to locate a large tank to use as my terrarium so I had to buy a whole new stand for it in order to accommodate its 4' length.

My brother-in-law found this tank in a secondhand store for $50 which was tremendously low for such a big tank! Tank is 4 feet long and 17 inches tall about 15 deep.
TankBEFORE.jpg


I cleaned it up and added mirrors to the back, sides and bottom. BIGGEST drawback to this tank is that stupid cloudy glass piece stretching the middle there.
I wanted to cut it off but it is pretty well caulked on there and seems to give the tank its solid structure. I will just hope it doesn't cause too much light issues. I know, not ideal.
TankMirrors.jpg


So to accommodate the larger tank I got rid of the last entertainment center and found this one through an online classified from a local resident selling hers for $20.
entcenter.jpg


I tore this thing up! Sawed out the middle wall, took off the glass door and the roll-up wood slat cover and added three 2-bulb shop lights.
lights.jpg


The three shop lights hold 2 40 watt T12 6500K daylight bulbs. So with 6 total and closely setup over the tank, I expect the lighting to be fine.
Closeupoftank.jpg


This is the finish product! Now all I need to do is buy some plants to fill it with. :D (Oh, I realize I didn't have the drawers back in place for the pic, but they are there.)
FinalSetup.jpg


I am so stoked to get back into growing some plants! I got to get myself a lid for this tank - plexiglass most likely - to keep the humidity in but other than that I am set to grow some CPs again!

It has been almost 4 years since I grew any CPs. I started in 2003 and moved more and more and progressively downsized my collection until I had nothing left in the move to the Netherlands. Been back to the States for almost three years now and I haven't been able to convince my wife to let me grow again. Now she has finally warmed up to it and I feel VERY lucky she did!! :D

Thanks for checking in on this. Looking forward to having plant pics some day. Have a good weekend all!
 
  • #13
Hey looks great! Six tubes will make Neps plenty happy. I'm getting back into Neps and orchids again after a couple year hiatus myself. I started creeping back into growing plants by collecting succulents like a madman for the last year or so and now I've decided I really have to get back to my first love montane tropical HL plants!

If you want to get rid of the cloudy center glass you can try a very sharp box cutter blade against where it is siliconed in. If you can get into the silicone seam you should be able to get it out. It's not easy since pro built tanks are very sturdy and not intended to be taken apart, but I did so recently in a thread about aquarium to vivarium modification farther down on this forum.

If you don't mind the glass being there but just want it clean/clearer try using straight lemon juice, straight vinegar or straight rubbing alcohol and rubbing on both sides with a couple clean cloth rags One wet one dry. Any of these three liquids are non toxic and pretty good solvents for cleaning glass. It may take a few stabs at it and some elbow grease but it should at least clear up at least a little bit.
 
  • #14
Thanks Swords! It will look even better with some plants in it too. :D Ordered a few from flytrapshop.com just now.

Thanks also on the advice for getting that stuff off, but whatever it is it's vile stuff. It is definitely mineral deposits from the water in the tank back when it was a fish tank....but after using STRAIGHT vinegar on it and a razor blade and all the elbow grease I could muster and getting no change at all....I gave up.

If the top part had cleaned at all I would have put more effort to the bottom half that is hard to reach, but even when vinegar was left on it and then scraped as hard as I could there was no change. Those deposits are one with the glass now and I just can't get enough abrasion to scrape if off the glass. It acts almost like scratches on the glass even though it obviously is something else left on it.

At any rate, do you think straight lemon juice or rubbing alcohol might have a better shot than my straight vinegar I used?

(By the way, I scoured the nets looking for ideas of what to clean the tank with and found an old post of yours in fact that got me to use the vinegar in the first place. :D)
 
  • #15
I would imagine the bulk of it is on the inside - on the hard to reach bottom. :( If you can stand the tank open side down between two chairs or lay it on its back you should be able to get a little better friction on it than trying to reach under.

If the vinegar didn't work alcohol or lemon may not work either. Too many years of sodium build up. There is a product called "CLR" (standing for Calcium Lime and Rust remover) which might be stronger than the three non-chemical products. You can get it any just about any hardware supply or home store in the cleaning supplies aisle. Just be sure to wear gloves when using CLR and wash the glass well afterwards with clean water. At work they clean the coffee maker with the CLR but that seems a bit dangerous to me - so I only drink coffee at home! LOL
 
  • #16
At work they clean the coffee maker with the CLR but that seems a bit dangerous to me - so I only drink coffee at home! LOL
:-)) Seriously, I wouldn't want to drink any coffee from that coffee maker...unless they clean it crazily well AFTER using the CLR....they are crazy to use it. :crazy: Just deal with the coffee lines imo.

I think I will try the CLR on this one section though. I would be afraid to contaminate my tank too much with residual chemicals that can harm my plants, but this is only a small part of my tank and I can get it free from residuals easier than if I had used CLR on the whole thing.

Thanks again Swords.
 
  • #17
if you wanted to remove that glass brace, it would be alright to do so---provided you dont intend to fill the tank up with water (i'd say halfway is the limit). the glass brace is meant to hold the tank together in the case you actually decide to use it as an aquarium. there have been quite a few horror stories about people wanting braceless tanks, removing them (without regarding the thickness of the glass), and having their tank bow and split because of the weight of the water.
 
  • #18
I might add that the braces are also useful for holding aquarium lids in place, which are usually little more than bare pieces of glass themselves. If you ever need to raise the humidity of the terrarium with a lid or need a lid to deflect heat (should you ever upgrade the lights), you might want to consider keeping the brace.

BTW, I just repaired the brace on my terrarium so I could use lids for both the above purposes.

-Hermes.
 
  • #19
I believe he said he was going to use plexiglass to retain the humidity. I would suggest using a 1/4" thick piece of Lexan if you can find it since it deflects heat quite nicely and doesn't bow like standard plexiglass when subjected to heat and humidity over time. If you can't find Lexan it's not the end of the world just get a thick piece which will minimize the bowing and still deflect heat nicely. I prefer thick plexi to thin glass as it seems to deflect heat better than a standard 1/8" pane of glass or glass aquarium lid.
 
  • #20
I prefer thick plexi to thin glass as it seems to deflect heat better than a standard 1/8" pane of glass or glass aquarium lid.

Yes, but it can also melt and discolor over time.

-Hermes.
 
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