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I recently moved from a house to an apartment, wherein I went from an old rickety iron shelf system on a South Facing Window that gave good enough light all day, to an Eastern facing window that gives light from 1-2 PM to 5-7PM.

While my plants seem to be mostly doing fine -- The Adelae didn't survive the trip, and the LFS in the Monkey Cup died back, and I have a bit of a white mold infestation that seems to finally be under control (things are doing a lot better than my original fears) -- I do not have any room to really expand my collection anymore.

What I'd like to do is expand into finally having some shelfs and artificial light for my plants -- ideally I'll have the "taller" plants in front of the window and the smaller ones under the artificial lights, or perhaps have the shelves in front of the window and just boost the daylight with artificial lights as well.

Therein lies my questions, as I'm completely lost. I am probably going to get the same shelf kit that Darcie mentions in her sticky post -- just a nice sturdy wireframe shelf with wheels under them (and a nice throw rug protecting the floor under that). They have them at the local Lowes for about $75 -- didn't see the wheel kit, but I'm sure it's around someplace.

My major worry is the lighting. I know I need 2 bulbs per mount in order to provide enough Lumens per shelf, give or take. Lowes in the area carries shop lights that look like they're what I want, they hold 2 bulbs and come with an electronic ballast and all that.

But all the talk of T8, T12, T5 bulbs kinda throws me off. Will the shop light fixtures usually mention that sorta thing? I didn't notice them on the boxes at Lowes, but it was just a passing glance. Are there online stores someone could point me at that would have these?

What about an Terrarium lid that can hold 2 lights? I don't think I necessarily need one -- my current setup is thriving -- but I could not find one to save my life, and the nice lady at Pet Smart gave me a funny look when I asked. Kinda a matter of personal pride at this point.
 
You should be able to find the T12/T8/T5 info on the packaging, but sometimes it's a little hidden. T12s are about an inch in diameter. T5s are noticeably smaller, about half that width. T8s are somewhere in between but I haven't seen many of them so I'd be guessing as to the size.
T12 shoplights will be the cheapest, by a factor of 10x or more. As far as I understand, you can use T8 bulbs in T12 fixtures with no problems. T5s are far better, but prohibitively expensive. Skip aquarium hoods - they aren't as affordable or as sturdy as a shoplight. If you get those four-foot shoplights that Lowes' tends to carry, get 2 per shelf (so that you have 4 bulbs per shelf.) 3 per shelf would be even better, but isn't entirely necessary.
Good luck! It sounds like you're on the right track.
~Joe
 
Oh wow, 4 lights per rack?

I don't suppose you know offhand how much my light bill will go up if I have, say, 2 or 3 four foot racks with 4 lights each rack going?
 
My wife was researching racks online and there does exist a rack that has the lights built in, for eash tier. Is that a possibility for you. She didn't go with that for me but got me a rack that I manually screwed in S-hooks that fit in the holes for fluorescent fixtures. Mine is at the living room glass windows and I'm going to be moving the lights slightly in from the windows. Below is an older picture.

DCP_1983.jpg
 
I was surprised to find that my power bill didn't jump too dramatically when I first set up one of these racks. I had six shoplights going for a total of 12 bulbs. It kept the room well-lit and warm so I think most of the cost was offset by having the heater and lamps off more. Of course, I run twice as many now and it costs me about $20 or $30 a month, I think. It's hard for me to tell because I have roommates that run the power bill up pretty high, but when I was living by myself my bill never went above $70 a month and the lights couldn't have been anything more than half that.
~Joe
 
As far as I understand, you can use T8 bulbs in T12 fixtures with no problems.

Not necessarily. Depends on the individual fixture. Some will allow, some explicitly warn against it - so be sure to double check.
 
Wow, $20 isn't too bad, and that's probably a lot more than I intend to set up. I was thinking just 1 rack unit and only putting in 2 rows of lights (so 8 lights total, 4 on each row). That would give me enough light for my entire collection AND some more Sundews.

Idaho has the lowest power bills int he US (for some reason, guess potatoes are cheap), so ... yeah. I hope a small (for now) setup won't cost much. I half expect to have a nice police officer stop by for a chat if my power bill jumps that high that quickly, though. ;)


I did happen to see this while I was finishing up today at work:

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111080

That's pretty much the EXACT setup I want to set up. I doubt it'll be too expensive, the rack will be the most expensive part I think. The drop down thingy is absolute brilliance, too.

I am kinda wondering if a Drosera filiformis or a Tuberous Sundew will have problems with a setup like that though. Maybe take out one of the rows or move ti down a bit...


So, with the lights... I do have to worry about heat, right? Since I am going to dangle the lights under the upper racks? Which should I aim for if I'm worried about that? T12s?
 
It's not a significant amount of heat. Enough to warm a terrarium lightly if you put one above the warm end of the light (where the ballast is.) Older lights probably got hotter but ones on the market now don't seem to. You may see some police interest, but I doubt it'll be much trouble. I live in a college town and I haven't once had police bother me about the lights. I even had some cops come by on a noise complaint and they could almost certainly see the lights through the doorway, and they didn't even mention them. Although, that could mean I'm on some sort of list now...
~Joe
 
  • #10
You really want to go for 4' or longer with your shoplights. 4' and 8' are industrial standards and as a result it seem the bulbs and fixtures are available at a much lower price. Smaller sizes are usually marketed towards pet hobbyists and decorative lighting, so they go for nonsensically higher prices. In an apartment, 8' lights would almost certainly be overkill, but 4' is pretty good. A single shelf with two fixtures and four bulbs can grow six to eight square feet of most basic CPs. If you get things close together and put the lights closer to your plants, you can get really high light levels for four square feet.
~Joe

PS - To do a little estimate, I use the above setup and have six lit shelves now. Each light cost me $7-$10 and each bulb cost less than $2, so each shelf cost about $20 to set up, with a $20 investment in a surge protector and timer for every three shelves. I think each shelf costs no more than $5 a month to run... possibly less. I use wire racks like a lot of people here do, and they're about $75 a rack. They can fit as much as five banks of lights, but I usually don't put more than three on a rack because I also use them for storage. By comparison, I spent almost as much on my first plant lighting setup, with 2' "grow bulbs" mounted on a small standing cabinet, as a 4'x6' rack with two 4'x18" lit shelves.
 
  • #11
I currently have a flood light in a desk lamp pointing at a Chinese food container full of LFS that I'm trying to regenerate and get growing. Said food container also has a dusting of D. Filiformis "Florida All Red" seeds in it. (I'm actually kinda worried about them falling in between the LFS and getting lost, but, we'll see... I might have to try again with standard peat.)

Anyway. Said flood light is a 65W CF replacement that uses 15W of power, and has a rating of 700 Lumens. I have it less than an inch above the container, and it's on for approximately 16 hours a day.

The LFS seems to be perking right on up, greening up all over the place -- especially now that I have a heat mat under it -- but I'm worried about the seed, to be honest. Is that enough light? Should I aim for a second light? Or push my plant rack plans up more? Currently I'm waiting for my Tax refund, but could push that up if needed...


I did see this system linked from the sticky on Terrarium Lights in here. The price is a bit... over the top, but the light mounts is pretty much exactly what I'm wanting. I could create the actual frame out of scrap if I could find the fixture, but finding a 6x T12 48" fixture is incredibly hard. Maybe I should just go back to 2 2x T12 fixtures instead...
 
  • #12
I can say that the shelving unit is the way to go. I wish I had thought to put the lights on chain though! I just zip-tied them to the upper shelf and that seems to work very well. So definitely splurge for that shelf. But how can I find out if I can put T-8's in my T-12 light fixtures? Would it be on the ballast?

And I was under the impression that sphagnum liked to be cool if anything... I could be wrong on that though.
 
  • #13
Starting to think it might be a really bad algae problem. It still doesn't come up with my fingers, but it's kinda... oozy... And I can no longer see the Filiformis seeds.... might need to consider a second go at it. Fortunately I still have some seeds...
 
  • #14
Got the rack, and the lights, except whoops, the light kit I got was a "commercial" light kit -- read, no AC cord. Whoopsy! Going to return it tomorrow. Camera should be here today or tomorrow, too.

The rack is a nice one, it's about 6 or 7' tall, 4' wide, and about 18"-24" deep. I currently plan on putting just one set of plants on one of the racks and going from there.


Lowes here has abysmal light kits. I had a lot of trouble finding a T12 light mount -- but found plenty of T12 lights. Could find plenty of T8 mounts, but the T8 bulb selection was pretty crappy.

Which do I want, exactly? T8s seemed to be smaller but brighter, T12s were bigger and cooler? I heard one will fit into the other one, is that true?
 
  • #15
T8's are brighter than T12's, or atleast look it...........i use T8's exclusively anymore....

BTW on bulb size....they are measured in eighths of an inch...a T12 is 12/8ths or an inch and a half in diameter, a T8 is 8/8ths or 1 inch in diameter and a T5 is 5/8ths inch in diameter........
 
  • #16
Hm, so by that reasoning, T12 mounts will fit T8s just fine, but not the other way around?
 
  • #17
depends on the individual fixture....some can....some cant......gotta read the box.....
 
  • #18
Well, the 4 Sunshine T8s seem to be working just fine. The Drosera multifida extrema is sending up shoots that are blood red, the Binata's leaves are a bit stubbier and redder, the D. dichotoma "giant"'s latest leaves are red instead of green (but the old leaves have wilted away and died, which is worrying), the Nep has sent out 2 new pitchers that can be charitably described as "ZOMG HUGE", the Pygmys are turning a brilliant copper color with all their extra dew -- and the Cape Sundew's latest leaves are bloated and positively dripping with dew.

Not everything is great. One of my 3 Cape Sundews has red spots appearing all over a few leaves, I am worried about some form of pest. The Dichotoma seems to be wilting away on the edges. My Ping continues to shrink away. the Adelae was doing good until I had the brilliant idea to split it up and repot it in 2 pots full of pure LFS -- it doesn't seem too happy, now. The timer isn't working too great, and doesn't come on automatically, I have to wiggle it in it's socket to get it on. I am planning on throwing it out tonight and going back to manual on/off until I can buy another -- I suspect my light is over-voltage for it.

All in all though, it's working pretty good.

Hope to get some pictures tonight.

Edit: Whoops, this was supposed to be in the "Is this enough light?" thread, sorry.
 
  • #19
T8 bulbs can be put inside T12 fixtures but it will reduce the life of the bulbs dramatically. a 4' 2x T8 fixture can be purchased at HomeDepot for 15 dollars. a 4' 2x T12 can be purchased at HomeDepot and Lowes for 8 dollars. I would recommend using silica sand and peat 1:3 mix for your drosera seedlings. My advice for bulbs would be to use both cool and warm light in each fixture, this will mix up the wave lengths and make your sundews happy.
 
  • #20
So after a month of running the lights for 12-18 hours a day (the timer I got was making a funny noise and not turning on, so I'm going to replace it) my power bill has gone up...

$3.

From $32 to $35.

The next bill after this month's might be the one to look out for, but so far, it looks like the rack isn't affecting my bill that much. If it really is only $3 for power to 4 T8 bulbs, I might set up a second rack away from the window -- maybe in the kitchen at the end of the island -- for different photoperiods, different temperatures, etc. Maybe move my seedlings and propogation chambers and run the lights 24x7 or something like 18 hours a day.)

I figure as long as I have one rack in the windowsill like this then the police won't be knocking on my door looking for weed or whatnot. I have been getting some odd looks around the apartment complex, however. :D

I'm a bit worried about temperatures in my current rack -- I do not have a fan yet, and the rack is standing right in front of an eastward facing window. Recently the Purple Pitcher plant that was regrowing started wilting like mad despite it having really moist soil, and my Drosera Filiformis Tracyi cuttings and random Sarr/Drosera seeds are sprouting -- signs of really warm temperatures, methinks.

I'm thinking of getting a clip on fan or something similar for the rack.

I installed a thermometer with a memory last night, I have a sinking and horrifying suspicion that the "Max" temp in that rack is going to shock me when I get home tonight. It's been about 80 in the evenings lately in the house, for example, and that's not in direct sunlight.
 
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