Anyone used Pond Shield on a wooden terrarium?

[swords]

Hey guys I've found this on another forum and was wondering if any of you DIYers have used it?

http://www.pondshield.com/index.htm

It says non-toxic & non-hazmat, so... can it be used in-situ to seal an indoor wooden terrarium project without killing the houses occupants? People online are using it to make sealed wood & glass, cement, etc. tanks for fish and frogs. I thought it looks pretty great but my vivarium project will likely not fit through the doors so I will have to build it in the room it's gonna be in and so can't be much stronger than aquarium silicone in stink as it will be mid winter and I can't have the windows open too much more than a crack.

I know polyester fiiber glass resin is awful smelling stuff which is why I haven't looked at marine coatings. But this is an epoxy and the non-toxic sculpting epoxy I use (Aves) smells like Fritos chips and so that isn't bad at all and actually makes me want chips when I use it!

 

[seedjar]

Uh, I don't know for sure but I just want to stress that you should be using strong ventilation...
~Joe

 

[GrowinOld]

No Direct Experience....

Well,
I have worked with an array of media, and this indeed looks like it gives good results.
Any of the epoxy type mixtures do seem to give off an unpleasant odor, however as to
its toxicity (other than a headache or sinus problems from the smell)
contacting the company is the best route to answer that question.

To offer a little "learned the hard way" advice, make sure you have a good, solid "base"
to apply it to, as even any minor flexing in your unit could break the seal eventually.
So if you are using this over wood, try to build it with screws and not nails if you can.
(If you use nails, use a good wood glue.) If you are like me, you hate doing a job twice.

Thanks for finding the product (I have even bookmarked it for possible future use)
as it appears have admirable qualities for giving not only a watertight
seal, but a nice finished look too. My only real concern would be how long it will last.
Changing out a few layers of plastic (after lasting 10 years!) has been a lot easier for me
than cleaning out and patching (let alone finding) hairline cracks in my "sealed" terrarium
bottom. (And I have done both!)

I guess if we don't hear from you again, we will assume the product gives off toxic fumes
when mixed!

Good luck with your project. Would love to see your finished unit
Paul

And yes, use common sense and ventilate! Even if its not toxic!

 

[swords]

Well, here is what I was initially thinking for my project before I found the Pond Armour stuff. I haven't bought it yet cos it is rather pricey.

First build a wooden case 48"L x 24"W x 36"H with a sliding glass front and glass top.

Then using an "under bed" sterlite tub 40"L x 20" W x 8"H inside the chamber as the bottom since the tub is waterproof and will hold like 20 gallons or something, so even if the mister screws up and stays on and empties the whole 5 gallon bucket it won't flood the tub.

Next the tub will be "set in place" by spraying the side and back with the Great Stuff expanding polyurethane foam and then covered in black aquarium silicone and peat to allow vertical moss/plant growth.

My thought is the foam is waterproof, the silicone is waterproof and all water will run down to the tub which is waterproof and that should be "enough". But I was going to get the Pond Armor just as another step in waterproofing protection between the wood and the expanding foam covered in silicone once I saw someone post about it on another forum.

I have a bunch of 4 mil plastic from building other plant propagators and things, can you describe how you line/waterproof a box with it? Any pics of the process? That'd be great!

 

[seedjar]

That building plastic will decay over time with heat and light - I don't think that's a very ideal material. If I were to try and waterproof something with it, though, I would probably paint the surface with a waterproof glue and then roll the plastic onto it, smoothing out the bubbles as I go with a grout knife or something, like making a lacquer box. But honestly I think something like a thin plexiglass would be a better choice.
~Joe

 

[GrowinOld]

Plans

Well, here is the setup similar to what I have on one of my Grow Chambers.
Like I said, it lasted about 10 years before springing a leak. I then took it apart
(other than the plywood base reservoir, the rest of it comes apart easily!),
and cut it down in size (from 5'w x 30"dp. down to 5'w x 18"dp.) in order
to fit in a new location.
At that time I put in new plastic lining. Again, a couple/few layers.
That was about 6 years ago, and it hasn't leaked or deteriorated at all from what
I can tell at this point. (Knock on wood!)
It is in an east window, and has supplemental t5 lighting (4' x 4 lamp).

I can only speak from direct experience that I have had with it.
I live in Illinois, and the sunlight from the window is not "cooking".
I do know that when I have used this method with things in my west facing
lean-to greenhouse, the plastic does dry and crack quickly.
The top layer of plastic shades the second & third layer, but indeed it cooks
in the greenhouse (It can get to 100 degrees in the WINTER!), and so the
"inner" layers of plastic deteriorates within a couple years. (The top layer within
about a year.) Anything below water/soil line holds up, but the part that shows
falls apart.

Again, I have NOT had this problem at all with the terrarium in the east window.
You can only see the plastic on the inside, and only about 2 inches shows, as the
rest is covered with sphagnum. As the plastic is black, its hardly even noticeable.
And when it did begin to leak, it was inside underneath, not along the top where it shows.
(I probably poked it enough over the years, or it just broke thru at some point.)

I hope the diagram helps. There was no need for me to glue the plastic to the sides,
as it is under the soil line and the sphagnum etc. pushes the plastic against the walls of the
unit already. The little bit above the soil-line isn't a big deal, and while part of it does buckle a bit, other areas sit against the sides flat.

And again, in the east facing window it is in, exposure to hot sun doesn't exist.
I certainly wouldn't recommend this for a terrarium that cooks in a south or west facing window, as then you WILL quickly have a problem. Using pond liner is another route to go,
however it is thicker and harder to form to the walls. In that case, possibly gluing part
to the walls might be a good thing.
If you do want a more finished look, the epoxy stuff might give better results.
Might, being the key word!
Well, good luck. And do post whatever you do!
Paul

 

[swords]

Thanks for the diagram and description. My setup is planned like your drawing but where the plastic is is where I would be putting the large shallow sterlite tub. I never use nails for anything, I'm lazy so my power drill is my best friend! lol

Ideally I'd like to use all glass but I don't think I can build it by myself at that size cos of the weight of the glass but I'd really like to have just the one big display sized setup instead of 4-6 smaller XL ExoTerras on a plant shelf type setup.

Why O why don't they sell euro style sliding front vivs in the US.

 

[seedjar]

I've seen some nice looking orchid cases from stateside companies. Could you hack one of those?
~Joe

 

[swords]

Yeah, Orchids Ltd sells the Orchidariums but IIRC the 48" model is just under $1200... lol A rather silly price I think. I don't actually know if they are waterproof in the bottom or not.

edit, just looked it up: $2400...
http://www.orchidweb.com/orcdrium.aspx



Any of you ever try cutting the plastic rims and front glass pane off a store bought tank? I don't mean trying to cut a hole out of the front glass but removing it completely at the join.

There is a discussion on Dendroboard about someone doing it.

I have a variable temperature toy wax carving pen that I modded out of a wood burner (saving myself some $400 on that little hobby) but one tip I have holds a scalpel blade which heats up to any temp I want using a room light dimmer dial. I could heat up a new scalpel blade and slice right through the silicone I should think. Supposedly a heat gun makes the plastic rims let go quite easily and I have two heat guns for double handed open air baking action on giant sculpey statues that won't fit in my oven. In theory I can just scrape off the old silicone clean with alcohol or naptha and reattach a lower pane with new silicone about 8-10" high for the water/soil section and have a 6-8" top brace piece cut and then glue in my sliding door track, glue down a custom lid and perhaps there we'd go.

I could get a big tank out of the town paper for cheap under $250 in the thrifties section and work it over. Cutting off the front glass and extending the top if it wasn't at least 3 ft high. I think the size I want is considered a 225 G cube but I don't want that nasty front glass but if I can slice it off I know of a fish shop where I can buy the exact tank and I think they even deliver...

I suppose practicing this maneuver on a $10, 10 gallon tank from petsmart next time I get crickets would probably be prudent as a trial run before ruining a big expensive tank! lol

 

[seedjar]

That should work perfectly. I refurbished a leaky aquarium and had to take the panes apart to do it. We just poured hot water over it and used a fine-gauge wire clay cutter to saw it apart. It was a pain to do it that way but it worked.
If you buy a used one, I would suggest taking it apart completely and cleaning all the panes before you put it back together. I think there are a few DIY instructions on Dendroboard or CPUK about cutting and assembling a terrarium from scratch - that might be a helpful read.
Take pictures and let us know how it turns out.
~Joe

 

[swords]

It wouldn't be so bad if I had another pair of hands to help with the big glass panes (I'd just have some glass cut and not pay for a pre-built tank). Darryl's "How to Build a European Vivarium" on Dendroboard is an awesome read and is what I would follow if I had someone to assist me in constructing a huge display tank based on a similar design. But if it's sides are already together and I just have to swap the front out that should be easy enough. I'm definitely going to experiment with this idea on a small/cheap tank first.

 

[seedjar]

Woo, that's a nice how-to. The pictures remind me of LEGO instructions.
~Joe

 

[swords]

I think he said he used Google's Sketch Up 3D program for it. That's one thing I hate about Photoshop you can't do basic diagrams easily, you have to buy illustrator for that. Only another $700....

Since I've swapped OS maybe I can install my old diagram drawing program which wouldn't work on the 64 bit. It's not as fancy as that but works for drawing head on sketches. I think I'll look into it as I always like to draw up my plans before I start building something.

---------- Post added at 05:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 AM ----------

I just ordered some 1/8" sliding door track and plastic molded edging from Outwater Plastics. There's a 12 ft minimum but I bought 24 feet of each. What the heck I'll never need to order either again! lol

1/8" Sliding door track. See Product #180:
http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/lg_display.cfm/catalog/2009_master/page/27

And this angled edging for where the doors will "park" at the ends of the tank and such. See Product #1933:
http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/lg_display.cfm/catalog/2009_master/page/57

 

[seedjar]

You can get Adobe Creative Suite for like $200 if you know someone at a college - it's become a hideously bloated software package in recent years but it's got just about everything you could possibly need or want. (I suspect if you spent a couple of weeks alone with Flash and an Actionscript book we might lose you forever.)
I used to have a nice free program I used for diagrams but now I can't remember what it was. Ray Dream was nice when it was still in active development, but it also cost like $600.
I'm not sure I understand the angled moulding. Is that a cross-section in the pictures? I don't get how you could get a thousand feet of corners. If that is the cross-section shown, I'm still not sure I understand what they would be used for. Especially the ones that aren't at right angles.
~Joe

 

[swords]

My cousin had to drop out of college. She got her dorm and school loan all sorted out and then a week or two into the start of this year the college gave her a letter saying "we screwed up you owe another $6000 for the 2009/2010 year" so she left. She's going to start EMT training now instead. I could have had her order me all sorts of good stuff at realistic prices, art and music software.... Everyone sells cheaper for students.

Yeah almost everything Outwater shows there is in cross section. They're showing you what angles the stuff is. The "L" angled plastic molding is a long right angled strip of plastic 1/2" x 1/2". I'm going to use it for where the doors meet the ends of the tank, they will run up the sides of the door opening curving over the opening. They will keep the doors from sliding past the ends of the tank and off the track. It will also keep you from cutting your arm and knuckles on the glass ends of the tank when reaching into it.

The "L" may or may not be "necessary" but it will hopefully make the finished product look professional and safer to fiddle around in. I have a feeling my hands will be in there a lot! With my anoles current viv I have to get a stepladder to be able to reach down into it and mess around so that's a huge hassle eliminated. I'm gonna convert her old 56G cube tank into a sliding front too once I get the test 10 gallon converted (that will be her "hotel" until I get her tank front changed over).

As far as some of their other crazy shaped moldings, I have no idea what they're used for! lol