Opinions on this greenhouse model?

[jonnyq]

Greetings,

I was at Lowes today, and I ran across their display advertising this (among others):

http://www.lowes.com/pd_318847-10155-FHSP300CL_4294935924_4294937087_?productId=3112011

Now, I've been growing solely in pots, and I thought it would be nice to have a mini-greenhouse to at least increase the amount of squirrel-proof land upon which I could grow CP's... However, in looking at this particular design, two things strike me:

1) no ventilation = overheat?

2) no ventilation = no air circulation = promotes fungus growth?

I know that I'm inexperienced in this regard; am I also paranoid, or are these valid concerns? Would leaving the door flap permanently open be a solution or rather the introduction of another problem?

 

[seedjar]

I've been quite underwhelmed by my experiences with these kinds of things. Granted, I've only used the smaller, non-walk-in ones. But for $240, my expectations would be even higher. You could overcome the lack of ventilation by running a duct or PVC pipe under the bottom of the wall and use a can fan to pull cool air in, but that'd be kind of a pain to setup. Where are you? What do you want to put in it? In most parts of the continental US you can grow pretty much all temperate CPs outdoors uncovered, with a few precautions taken according to your local climate.
I've found that you can usually get two to five times the useable space out of an enclosure you build yourself, be it a walk-in outdoor greenhouse or just a little terrarium for your shelves indoors, and they last longer too.
~Joe

 

[GrowinOld]

I hate to say it, but I agree with Joe again!
(No, I am not following you around on purpose Joe!)

Unless you are getting this thing for 80%+ off, I would pass on it.
A lot does depend on where you live, as far as what one would recommend for you,
but I have seen aluminum and plastic panel greenhouses for a bit more and they won't
fall apart or degrade as fast as this thing likely will.

I am not sure what you are planning on doing with it... For the meantime,
I would either grow indoors under lights, build a "cold-frame" for next to nothing,
or grow outdoors and respect dormancy methods needed for your area.

Again, it would help knowing where on the planet you live, so as to understand your needs better.
When asking questions, providing as much relative info as you can, will make answering questions more possible.

Good luck

 

[jonnyq]

Hi, and thanks for the responses!

Yeah, I'm over in sunny Brooklyn, NY. I actually started growing most of my cps outdoors this year, and I'm preparing two large pots for a dormant winter (in a large bin, buried in a non-dyed mulch of cedar chips) in my shed.

I think my interest in examining the possibilities of a greenhouse stemmed from the repeated squirrel attacks that have killed/nearly killed several akai ryu flytraps in one of my outdoor pots. (The largest pot has since been fortified with bird spikes, but I'd prefer not to have all of my cps looking like they live in some sort of demilitarized zone. The effectiveness of cayenne pepper powder as a deterrent for the remaining pot can be very generously described as utterly minimal.)

Anyhow, I thought that a greenhouse like that might be less aesthetically hostile than more bird spikes, and the thought of putting wire shelves in a greenhouse-style enclosure (to better utilize the vertical space in the yard, while keeping out those bastard squirrels) was tempting...

 

[seedjar]

Well, at that latitude, you might be onto something. And yes, squirrels can be quite troublesome. Just wait until the nesting birds notice your LFS... D:
A greenhouse might be worthwhile - I'll let some New Englanders give you a more definitive answer though because I'm kind of spoiled here in the Pacific NW. At my old place I made wood or aluminum frames and stretched poultry wire/bird netting over them to keep the critters away. Birds are generally pretty wary of things they might get tangled up in. Squirrels might not be as intimidated though...
~Joe

 

[GrowinOld]

Yea,
In my yard I have wire "cages" I have built, that I put some of my plants in to protect them from the natives. No trapped heat problems, natural watering and full access to bugs/food! Just as nature intended! Caged up with a "beware of carnivores" sign! :grin:
Not beautiful, but works great! (I use heavy enough wire that makes its own cage without bulky framing of any kind.) Raccoons were my main problem... and chipmunks... and birds!

I also have a regular greenhouse, but I have found the outdoors best for the normal Sarrs, VFTs and temperate sorts of dews and such. Anything tropical goes in the greenhouse for summer. In winter, tropicals come inside and the temperates move from the outdoors to the greenhouse for perfect dormancy. (Too cold where I live to leave them winter over outdoors. Greenhouse has heat and automatic ventilation, and with no heat on but full sun, it can get to be 100 degrees in the middle of winter! So in the summer, it can get way, way too hot for normal plants, even with shading cloth.)
Greenhouses seem like a wonderful oasis, but they take real management, understanding and a bit of real work!

A greenhouse like you picked out may provide protection of sorts in the winter, however in summer it will cook them to death! As far as shelves, you then need to make sure the lower shelves are not shaded! Good in theory, but not as practical in the real world sometimes. (I often can't even use the glass shelves in the greenhouse, as the plants shade the plants below them.) Just make sure you think things thru, or you drop a lot of coin on something that ends up being impractical.

Good luck

 

[scottychaos]

Greenhouses are essentially useless in the northern USA and Canada..
you simply cant use them in the winter..unless you dont mind spending $500 a month for heat..
its just too cold outside..
without a heat source, when its +10 degree F outside, it will be +12 degrees F inside the greenhouse!

They are much more common in Europe and England because the climate is so much milder..
when its 30 degrees outside it might be 40 inside the greenhouse..thats a meaningful difference!

but around here, there is just no real need for one..too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer..
for CP's, its just much better keeping the plants out in the open air April-October.

If you want the greenhouse as *only* a method of protecting from squirrels and birds, then thats a different story..it could probably help! although you still have the issue of serious overheating in the summer, and you still cant keep plants in it during the winter..but I suppose it could maybe work..

Would probably be easier and much less expensive to erect wire cages around the pots..

someone needs to invent the "garden cage house"!
same size as a small greenhouse, with a door, you could walk into it, but made completely of wire!
wide-open to the air and elements, no glass or plastic covering, but with openings small enough to keep out critters...hmmmm...that could be a business opportunity foe someone!

more realisticallty, it could be a good idea to try to custom build something like that..

Scot

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

something like these could be useful:

http://www.mypetcages.com/images/products/535.jpg

(would just want something that wont rust..vinyl coated wire or something like that.)

those big kitty cages are pricy though..$500 on that webpage..
you could custom build something much more cheaply..
something like an outdoor rabbit enclosure..with wire walls and ceiling..

Scot

Scot

 

[Frilleon]

I would not wnat to use anything without ventilation. Plus the plastic GH will not last the test of time. Why not spend a little more and get one of these? http://www.harborfreight.com/lawn-garden/growing/6-ft-x-8-ft-greenhouse-47712.html. Last much longer and has a vent. IMHO there are many benefits to using a greenhouse. Yes some places might be too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer but there are many ways to deal with those problems. I'll be getting something similar to this untill I can save up for a better GH.

 

[seedjar]

Scot - I'm working on something like that myself. Building benches for my porch, and I'm going to have tall posts on each that I can hang screen/poultry wire panels on to keep out the critters. My apartment complex is swarming with jays - come springtime they'll pick my pots clean of moss if I give them the chance.
Scot's on to something about it being a little too cold in the winter to make a big difference in terms of temperatures. But I'll play devil's advocate and point out though that even with little difference in temperature, protection from wind can be very valuable in the cold. On the other hand, you can just wrap a tarp over your plants, or mulch them, and that should work about as good.
~Joe

 

[scottychaos]

Scot's on to something about it being a little too cold in the winter to make a big difference in terms of temperatures. But I'll play devil's advocate and point out though that even with little difference in temperature, protection from wind can be very valuable in the cold.
~Joe

Exposure to wind is a non-issue..
because if you live where its cold, you have to mulch your plants anyway if they are going to survive outdoors..they are buried deep under heavy loads of mulch/leaves/pine needles, etc..so they are never exposed to wind at all anyway..

If you live where its warm (zone 7 or higher) you can just leave the plants out..because you live in a similar climate to their native habitat..and its warm enough all winter that wind isnt a concern.

I suppose a greenhouse could provide *some* protection if you live in a grey area..
but not enough to warrant the purchase of a greenhouse for that purpose alone..
if you live in such an area, you are just better off mulching the plants anyway..
so really, there is essentially no where where a greenhouse is actually useful in the winter!
(for North American CP's..VFTs and Sarracenia)

Scot

 

[GrowinOld]

Well,
I keep my Temperates (VFT's, Sarrs., Temperate dews) in the greenhouse over winter where they get a climate near to that of their natural home, and also keep some of my highlanders/ultrahighlanders in there also, as there is quite a variation in temps/conditions depending on where things are placed. I have supplemental heating to keep it above freezing in most parts of it, some areas slightly warmer, some colder.
I am not sure what qualifies to some as enough to warrant having a greenhouse, however not living in one of those nice climates where a person gets ideal temps/conditions without a lot of extra effort, thinking or work, we have to do what we can. (I have grown CP's and other plants for MANY years before ever getting a greenhouse, however after growing outdoors, indoors, and in cold frames, a greenhouse was a natural next step. Yet one I would not have known how to take successfully without the experience of the other steps I had gone thru.)

I personally love my greenhouse and with it & a bit of effort, I can give the plants I have that do not appreciate the "local outdoors" a chance to live and thrive. It does take a lot of work at times, but it doesn't have to cost an arm and leg to do things if you think things thru. Indeed keeping a "tropical hot house" type greenhouse would cost more to heat than most plants are worth, but there are alternatives to doing anything as expensive as that. One must only use a little more than a bit of common sense and be willing to put in some real work. They are a big responsibility and can get out of hand very easily, but can also provide an opportunity not ordinarily available.

I would not recommend one to most people, unless the person really needs one and also is truly serious about the hobby long term. It would help greatly to understand the dynamics of a greenhouse BEFORE deciding to buy one (unless you have a lot of money to throw away!). Doing some actual research on them and starting with a cold frame for a year, and then possibly on to a small, inexpensive hobby greenhouse would be the best way to go for most people. (The plastic/polycarbonate & aluminum type I mentioned earlier, like the one Frilleon linked to perhaps.)

Indeed you can create the cold and wet tropics of Mt. Kinabalu, the environment of northern bogs, the wet savannahs of NC, and the wetlands of the southeastern states, (or even a desert if you like cactus instead) all in your own back yard! But it is going to take some real work and understanding. A greenhouse isn't going to do this however. A greenhouse is a tool with its own limitations! But a committed grower, with a greenhouse, some money, knowledge, understanding, common sense and a whole lot of work, CAN!

Greenhouses are NOT for everyone and will not solve all your growing problems just by throwing a bunch of plants in one. In fact you can't find a better, more expensive way to cook or kill your plants! It can easily create more problems than it solves! And if you cannot grow terrific plants without one, you won't grow them with one either. (Most people here do NOT need a greenhouse by any means!)
A greenhouse will rarely help a grower to establish a hobby for many years... But it is often an ideal environment for growers who have a hobby that has been established for many years already.

(And if you don't understand what I am saying, then wait to buy one until you do!)

But if you do some actual reading up and learning about greenhouses, along with learning from a few years of growing experience and rolling with the punches, you will not find a more fun place to play and grow plants!
Just my opinion.
Good luck all!

If you are someone who just started growing CP's and can't wait to get one, it is unlikely you will have long term success with one. As in growing up, growing plants, and gaining wisdom, patience is the key.
Again, just my opinion.

 

[seedjar]

If you live where its warm (zone 7 or higher) you can just leave the plants out..because you live in a similar climate to their native habitat..and its warm enough all winter that wind isnt a concern.

I've lost plants (primarily smaller VFTs) to both frost heave and desiccation after leaving them exposed to particularly dry icy storms. It can be dangerous in warmer areas especially because repeated freezing and thawing quickly pull moisture from the pots if there's constant air circulation. I'm totally spoiled here on Puget Sound, but I would still never leave a plant I didn't want to lose in anything smaller than a half-gallon pot over winter, and even then the only reason I don't worry too much about covering them is because I've got a ton of pots all cloistered together.
But yeah, if the only thing it will be good for is to protect your plants from windstorms for three months of the year, you'd be better served to buy a $12 roll of painter's tarp.
~Joe