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Need to upgrade my Lowland Nepenthes area!

I'm about at that point where I need to expand my Lowland Nepenthes grow area and I'm looking for input to help me avoid possible problems. I'm currently growing them in Exo-terra 24" X 18" X 18" tanks, I've already had to cut a few vines due to height problems and now I'm getting close to the 18" horizontal limit. I'm not as concerned about the height as I am with the width, I really don't mind having to cut a vine but I'd like them to be able to grow larger overall.

I would prefer to overbuild the next one so I have some grow out space but at the same time I can't get crazy. I will NEVER be able to sell my wife on the grow tent idea, even the really expensive fancy ones she will not go for so those are out. I also failed at convincing her to allow me to turn a room into a terrarium :-D. Being in TX an outdoor greenhouse is completely impractical and when we looked into a sunroom it just doesn't make sense right now.

So far the best option seems to be building a custom terrarium I'm thinking around 48" L X 24" D X 30" H, the extra height would be to allow for a 6" water reservoir. I could go much larger if there was a good pre-made alternative I have not thought of, but keep in mind she would not let me put a fancy tent up so I'm sure using one of those "shower" units would be out too. It will have to look nice in the end. Due to medical issues I really need front opening doors when I have "flare-ups" so reusing aquariums is not a good option.

I'm open to all input at this point as I'm still in the early planning stages and construction will likely not take place until the late Spring. Right now I'm mainly concerned with the physical structure and will worry about the lighting/humidity/heating/whatnot after I figure out the structure.
 
I'm considering cutting apart my glass tanks and using the panes to construct larger terraria from plywood and pond sealant, like they do for giant DIY aquariums. You really only need one glazed wall in a tank - the one you want to look through. Maybe a lid if you have something you need to keep shut in and can afford the light loss. My plan is to build a vertical cabinet (last time I really let the Neps do what they wanted, several pots hit the vaulted ceiling) with a sliding glass door behind light-tight shutters.

If health/mobility is an issue, I suggest skipping the tent idea altogether. At the very least, don't get a walk-in tent - you have to keep an eye on the nooks and crannies or they get funky. There would be a lot of stooping and moving and cleaning entailed. If you have to go cheap, build a tabletop tent - one you can reach into, clean, take apart, etc. all from a comfortable standing position. Really though, if a tent is in your sphere of affordability, invest half that money into some tools and build something that fits your needs specifically. You can modify existing furniture if you aren't particularly handy. But the box design that aquarists use is about as dead-simple as you can get, so it should be a good place to start learning.

Best luck,
~Joe
 
The entire tent concept is a no go the wife just won't go for it.

As for budget, well that's a bit open. I'm not a college student but I'm not rich either :)

I'm looking into the wood vs all glass options now, the glass seems a lot quicker and easier but with a higher cost. Although I haven't looked up the price of the "special" paint you need for the wood either. If you get the glass from a "real" glass store and not a chain hardware store it would already be grinded down. So construction would only be an hour or so actually work time, now 4-5 days build time (due to 15m work, 1 day drying, 15m work, 1 day drying, ect.). The wood/glass hybrid would be a lot more actual work.
 
I went the route of an outside gh. they can be purchased cheap to get you started.......then I built a 36x36x36 chamber inside the gh which i can expand with hardly no effort. For just starting out maintaining a gh is difficult.....maintaining a chamber inside one....easy. main selling point........putting the plants OUTSIDE. lol.
 
I went the route of an outside gh. they can be purchased cheap to get you started.......then I built a 36x36x36 chamber inside the gh which i can expand with hardly no effort. For just starting out maintaining a gh is difficult.....maintaining a chamber inside one....easy. main selling point........putting the plants OUTSIDE. lol.

I've never thought of that. How are you heating and cooling the chamber? Down here I'm not sure it wouldn't just act as a mini oven inside a larger oven when the temps hit 105+ in the summer.
 
i bought one of those $20 temp controllers(if you need help wiring it i can help).......when i bought em they were only in celcius so was educational too. basically a radiator style heater with a fan sitting in front of it(both come on at the same time).......it's cold as hell outside and last i checked 28c in there so the heater doesn't even run all the time, actually efficient enough to cycle and i have a lp heater for backup/power failure only.

last summer i only used an inline duct fan which only ventilated the chamber....got to nearly 120 in there for a short period of time......lowlanders dealt with it due to decent humidity without missing a beat. Did they enjoy it....no did they suffer....if so not enough to notice in the terms of growth. This year I will add a swamp cooler of some sort other than that in the winter i use t8's but once it warms up.....back to sunshine! umm humidity i just use a single pond fogger on a timer in a large half barrel of water. I had an extra sub heater so I actually heat the water that is humidified.

chamber itself is a conglomeration of 2x2 frame and plastic....most of the material was surplus however for the winter I did buy a sheet of foam reflective insulation to make it more efficient/less costly on heating.

perhaps the following year i will revisit cooling the entire greenhouse with veggies but this year it was not practical. i will post some pics later/tomorrow.
 
A small bucket of Pond Armor runs $75-$90, which is enough for 60 sq ft. Most of what I've read suggests one coat is enough but I plan to do two just to be sure I don't miss any spots. I'll be using fiberglass tape and/or aluminum flashing to reinforce the glass/wood joints. I already have glass so the biggest expense will probably be the marine-grade plywood, but I should have enough left over to build a matching sump and hood for my lights. The thing that's sold me on trying this method is that Pond Armor comes in a clear glossy coat; you can stain wood, concrete and foam before sealing it and have the color show through. Apparently, it even cleans like glass if you get it on in smooth layers, but I'll believe that when I see it.
~Joe
 
i bought one of those $20 temp controllers(if you need help wiring it i can help).......when i bought em they were only in celcius so was educational too. basically a radiator style heater with a fan sitting in front of it(both come on at the same time).......it's cold as hell outside and last i checked 28c in there so the heater doesn't even run all the time, actually efficient enough to cycle and i have a lp heater for backup/power failure only.

last summer i only used an inline duct fan which only ventilated the chamber....got to nearly 120 in there for a short period of time......lowlanders dealt with it due to decent humidity without missing a beat. Did they enjoy it....no did they suffer....if so not enough to notice in the terms of growth. This year I will add a swamp cooler of some sort other than that in the winter i use t8's but once it warms up.....back to sunshine! umm humidity i just use a single pond fogger on a timer in a large half barrel of water. I had an extra sub heater so I actually heat the water that is humidified.

chamber itself is a conglomeration of 2x2 frame and plastic....most of the material was surplus however for the winter I did buy a sheet of foam reflective insulation to make it more efficient/less costly on heating.

perhaps the following year i will revisit cooling the entire greenhouse with veggies but this year it was not practical. i will post some pics later/tomorrow.

I would be very concerned about the long term heating/cooling costing outcosting any indoor setup I could dream up. If your getting 120 in Virginia I don't want to think about what I would get down here in Texas.

Photos would be great in any case, its a concept I've never thought of before and might be modifiable to work down here, I'd have to think about it. We have been trying to dream up an outdoor setup that would work down here but the price tags for the ones we think would work long term are $10K+ and for that money I can build whatever I want indoors and pay the heating/cooling until I die.

A small bucket of Pond Armor runs $75-$90, which is enough for 60 sq ft. Most of what I've read suggests one coat is enough but I plan to do two just to be sure I don't miss any spots. I'll be using fiberglass tape and/or aluminum flashing to reinforce the glass/wood joints. I already have glass so the biggest expense will probably be the marine-grade plywood, but I should have enough left over to build a matching sump and hood for my lights. The thing that's sold me on trying this method is that Pond Armor comes in a clear glossy coat; you can stain wood, concrete and foam before sealing it and have the color show through. Apparently, it even cleans like glass if you get it on in smooth layers, but I'll believe that when I see it.
~Joe

By the time you add up all the costs of the wood it might be cheaper to go with all glass. Its been a few years since I've went to an actual glass store and ordered glass so this may have changed. Remember this box will never hold water so 1/4" or so would be thick enough. Just need to support the weight of the glass, the lights and anything else you hang on the glass.

A well made hybrid wood/glass box would look a lot nicer thou. The more I look around the more I'm liking the full sized (think 6 feet tall by 4 feet wide) custom terrariums build into a wooden frame. So I'm leaning towards something like that. I don't need that much space right now but the extra cost to build something larger is not "that" much compared to the costs of building anything.

A thread about waterproofing plywood you might find useful. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...w-to-waterproof-a-plywood-aquarium&highlight=

From a few places it seems the consensus is around 200-250g plywood becomes cheaper than all-glass. So sub 200 all glass over 250 plywood/glass, assuming you don't want a certain look and those random internet sources are accurate :-D
 
I might have found my indoor option, I just need to do my research for the "downside"

PVC Trim Board!

Its not my idea but from
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...370-gal-viv-indoor-greenhouse-const-jrnl.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/43578-pvc-trim-board-vivarium.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/62177-pvc-trimboard-tank.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/44631-pvc-trimboard-tank-3-a.html

With a little tweaking of the basic concept (using PVC cement instead of screws to hold it together) and using glass instead of plastics this idea could look really nice when completed and the white on the inside would reflect light. Just need to get my hands on a piece of this stuff and look for potential problems.
 
  • #10
PVC sounds interesting but I couldn't find much info on pricing. Seems expensive at the big box store websites but I'm probably looking at the wrong stuff. I want to build a cabinet with a footprint of 4' x 2' or larger, so it doesn't take much height to pass the 250 gallon mark. I'll be doing a smaller tank before that for practice though. I don't think I have the tools to do a lot of glass work so I wanted to avoid it, but I know I saw 3' x 6' x 1/4" tempered glass panels at Home Depot for less than $100 recently. My aversion to all-glass is the combination of weight and fragility. I have to move this unit out of my second-floor aparment eventually, and even though I plan to have it broken into a 2' high bench/sump, 4' main tank and 1' light/fan box more than one glass side just seems too bulky. I was thinking of mounting the glass in trim in a fashion similar to the build you linked - I'd like to be able to detach it from the main cabinet for transportation.
~Joe
 
  • #11
The PVC is more expensive than normal wood so you may be looking at the right stuff. The 44 X 20 X 22 one he says was under $50. I'm not sure if that was including the glass/plastic or not. Thin glass is cheap thou. I'll be heading to a hardware store tomorrow to play with a piece and see how durable it really is.

We have two of the big box hardware stores here and one of them will cut the glass they sale the other will not. So if you bring them the measurements they will cut it, now they are not exactly "good" or "trained" at this so you take your chances. That glass would still need to have the edges sanded/polished and that's a bit of work. Read up on it before you do it if you go that route, glass dust is some nasty stuff. Or you could go the route I'm planning on and that's to find a good local glass store to cut and polish the edges for me, it will cost a bit more but I think it worth the money in the end.

For a setup you plan to move something similar to that linked one might be perfect, just build the sliding glass doors so they are removable and the rest would be a wooden box. The plastic or glass panels would reduce the weight and cost a lot. Although you could do that with normal plywood and Pond Armor or the like.
 
  • #12
I already have pieces of cut glass - they're just glued together into aquariums right now. :p This is largely a do-it-to-see-how-it-works-out project for me. I'm going to test out construction with foam insulation board too, and perhaps an open-wall design with plexi or acrylic as well.
~Joe
 
  • #13
I already have pieces of cut glass - they're just glued together into aquariums right now.
I have torn apart a few tanks & it's never as easy as it originally appears. In fact, the last one I tried was completely destroyed. When the glass is glued well in those 'holders' at the top & the bottom, disassembly is rough. My local Home Depot carries assorted glass pieces & I've found that trimming those to the final size I want is much easier. By the time you finish ripping a tank apart (if you succeed), you could have mostly finished your new box.

If you're not looking at creating structural tanks, why not buy foil-backed foam insulation board in 4 x 8' sheets from a big box (vs plywood)? Av made one for his Heli's (which Jeremiah then successfully copied) and, iirc, Swords has made one or more of his own design (here's one thread but it looks like he yanked his pics - grrrrrr). If they don't show up to comment in the thread, I recommend shooting them a PM.

btw - Joe - good to see you back - it's been a while ...
 
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  • #14
alright these are some older pics but:

rough outside shot:

102_0588_zpsf20055ed.jpg


water reserve with pond fogger:

102_0871_zpsd3e852b9.jpg


heater with fan: as you can see i mounted the heater on the outside and cut 'gills' into the plastic and the fan blows the heat into the chamber. this is an older pic....i switched to a smaller fan since.

102_0921_zpsc17c73f7.jpg


i will add some new pics. i dont have any zoomed out shots but i here is one:

102_0955_zpsa25b7b3c.jpg
 
  • #15
here are some more recent pics in what i call "winter mode" the need for efficiency had to improve with the falling temps so foamboard insulation on all 6 sides, had to seal the gh so now using t8 florescent but will go back to sunlight later and had to seal in the heater area bc too much of it was being wasted.

temps went from 14-17 to 25-28 c.....also you can see the duct i used for summertime cooling but as i said this year i will add in a small swamp cooler. cross that bridge when i get to it.......still a very cheap alternative to keeping the stinky plants inside as I keep upgrading to eventually make the most of the gh my chamber. :)

sorry for the poor quality but i don't like to open it up much when it is cold. i have 4 or so exceeding 1 ft tall and recently had to cut one vine that was excess of 3 ft tall.

if you are asking why the plastic is over the fixture........it's like a cave in there above the grow chamber. if i didn't have that plastic water would most likely drip and get into the ballast which would ruin the fixture.

102_0966_zpsfda5bf75.jpg


102_0967_zpsea994b8b.jpg
 
  • #16
The things we do for our plants, I just have to laugh sometimes. My wife already thinks I'm crazy with a wine chiller on the kitchen table to try to grow a few orchids, I'm not sure she would agree with me building a greenhouse then building a mini house inside the greenhouse.

I just can't get past the summer heat part for a greenhouse setup, we have 2-6 weeks every year of 102-105 temps, the hot years are worse.
 
  • #17
I plan to try some foam boxes too. But I need to build cabinets for my workshop space anyways, so I'll have some spare materials around, and I want to practice my woodworking. And I've also got this 90 gallon tank that I don't know what to do with, and a few 30s and 40s as well that are just not very useful shapes. I may end up using salvage glass or plexi or the like. Before I try that I'll practice on some fives and tens, though.

One way or another I'm going to need at least some material sturdier than foam board, though - I can always put the tanks on my existing shelves, but I still want them framed rigidly enough to move easily. I want to keep my wiring and other sensitive equipment enclosed as well; I've never had anything go wrong yet but more than a few close calls.

Funny that you're in Texas; I get similar summer highs here in Washington. Although for me it's a microclimate - my apartment is on top of a hill that faces west and all the buildings nearby have black shingle roofs. I used to have a coldframe on my porch, because the exposure is really drastic in winter. In the summer I put my most sensitive pots behind the guardrail so that they're never exposed to direct sun, and I use fiberglass window screen for shadecloth in a pinch. This year I learned that Neps actually tolerate it pretty well. We've got reliable mid-range humidity around here though; I don't know if the same is true in your neck of the woods. I've been to the DFW area a number of times but all I remember is that it's not as muggy as Houston but just as hot.

Are you familiar with nepenthesaroundthehouse.com? I feel that it's a must-read for anyone who's passed the point of keeping their Neps in a petshop terrarium.
~Joe
 
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  • #18
I don't know if the same is true in your neck of the woods. I've been to the DFW area a number of times but all I remember is that it's not as muggy as Houston but just as hot.

Are you familiar with nepenthesaroundthehouse.com? I feel that it's a must-read for anyone who's passed the point of keeping their Neps in a petshop terrarium.
~Joe

We get droughts and heat at the same time, so I'd say 100-105 and 0% humidity is pretty common mid summer. Last summer the ground in the park had cracks almost 2" across due to the ground drying out so much. If it was a week or two I think I could work around it but its much longer and then its just goes down to 98-100 range.

I've checked that site out in the past some good info there, not a lot about building a grow area thou.

Here is my last woodworking project.

DSC_0972 by RSS_Build, on Flickr
 
  • #19
RSS,
I live about 6 hours northwest of you in the texas panhandle, and its just as bad here. I find it extremely difficult to grow neps outside. Venus flytraps are definitely doable but neps are def a no go without a lot of work. I grow my neps in a grow tent in my apartment.
 
  • #20
@ RSS.......it is in the far east corner of the back yard....instead of taking up space in the house......a trade off any sensible woman(or man for that matter) would make. she hears womp womp womp womp PUT THE PLANTS OUTSIDE womp womp womp womp. lol.

anyway gl with your conundrum
 
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