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New lighting

Clint

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hi, i'm about to start my new terrarium. its a brand new 75 gallon tank. 48'' long, 21'' hish, and 18'' wide. I have 2 normal out put ballast (each powers 2 4' fluors) and a VHO ballast (powers 4 4' fluors)

now then, what types of bulbs should i get? the bulbs that are lit by the VHO ballast will run alot brighter than normal bulbs and will have more lumens. they will be about double what a normal output bulb gives off, and then some.

so i need 8 bulbs total. what cambinations would work best for me? are there any 48 inch UV bulbs to gvie my plants enough uv?

one more thing, i've been being very worried about heat. how do i heat this terrarium? i want it to stay a constant 35 degrees C or 95 degrees F. it will house lowland neps. ect. this is my first time with Cp's in a serious way.


and about humity, will this mist maker be enough? i want my humidity level to be VERY high. as high as i can get them. http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html

its the fith item down. M005(DK5-48)

would it be better to get that one, or 5 normal ones? the price difference isn't very much.
 
To begin you shouldnt need much more than the 440 watts of VHO's as for UV its not necessary, plants do not require supplimental UV to flourish. I would run two URI, AquaSun lamps and two URI ActinicWhite lamps, as for the NO's any cheap cool white and/or warm white lamps will do.

Heat should be no problem with all those lamps and ballasts over an enclosed glass box, neither should maintaining your humidity. Besides youll soon learn that your plants appreaciate a much lower constant day time temp than 95 degrees. Id say your definately going overboard with that fogger , ONE of smallest units should do it. Just remember those things get HOT so dont ever let it run dry.
The one thing that youve omitted but I feel is a prerequisite is a fan, you need some way to move air around inside that tank or else youre going to end up with a hole host of problems. A simple 4" ac fan blowing against the glass top should do just fine.
 
those bulbs are for aquarium use. are you sure? and how many warm tubes to cool tubes?

what can i get a fan? the back of the tank have about 2 inches of open space, theres also a 1.5 inch hole in the back. this has a bulkhead for it because it used to be a saltwater aquarium.

where would i get a small fan? are they any extremely small ones i can use on the inside? i would be great to ahve magnetic ones. like the fan part goes inside and is held on to the glass by a magnet on the outside.


and are you saying it would be bad to add the 2 other tubes? i would rather use them since they are sitting in the basement and are elss that a year old, and ti would give me a much wider variety of bulbs to use.

on all the sites i've been to, they say that nepenthes thrive under high temps. with 30-35 being excellent. i'd prefer 35 since it gives me more room for error. this tnk will house only lowlanders, no highlanders.

as for the fogger, why exactly woudl it be overkill?i thought neops liked high humitiy of ATLEAST 80 percent. i'd like my humidity to be very high, possible 100 percent. I'd like it to rub 24/7. my lights would 18 hours a day. should i buy 3 regular units and have them on timers so that each is on 8 hours per day? i'd have 4 inches of water in the bottom with a false bottom of eggcrate 2 inches above the water for the plants. is this too much water in the bottom to maintain proper humitidy? i'd like to grow utricularia and aldrovandas in the bottom as well.

and by the way, the ballast wouldn't be near the tank, they would go through the 2 inch cap of glass in the back through the bulkhead (1.5 inch hole) and they would be mounted in the stand below.

as for heat, what do i do at night when temps drop? should i but a couple of reptile heating pads and stick em under the tank?


i'm not questioning you words, if it seems like that. i'm jsut trying to get a better understanding. and thank you very much for posting, your like the only one so far.
 
yes, definatly, do they make small (small) fans for terrarium use? i want to use it inside, unless i can find a way to mount it inside the canopy to blow through the 2 inch caps in the back. but they wouldn't that dry out the plants in the back?

is the fan for fungus prevention or heat control? i could use a fungicide.

i dont think my dad will go for it unless its made for terrarium use. hes an electrician and water and electricity dont mix.
 
how come no one is replying?


i about 2 inches of open space between the rim of the tanka nd the glass that covers it. could i add some fans in my canopy directly over that space blowing air into it? si that enough movement?

what abotu soem small computer fans? how many? 2? 4?
 
Hi Pill
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You may not be getting any replies yet because people are waiting for someone to reply that has some actual hands on experience with these things. We have a several members who have some big terrarium setups and they may not have had time in their schedule to check the forums to see whats new. Patience. In this elctronic age of instant information we sometimes forget the human element involved has its own time schedule
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You also have to keep in mind that while the forum is based here in the USA, members are all over the world and in different time zones. They also may not spend as much time at the forum as many of us do
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The main purpose of the fan is to provide some air movement in your terrarium to discourage fungus growth. It will also even out the humidity and temps.

Blowing air from outside the terrarium into it would lower the humidity inside the terrarium. There are a couple members that have rigged humidifiers to the air intake of their terrarium to prevent that problem. There was a post a while back where somebody said they had mounted a comouter fan inside their terrarium but I don't remember the details. If you do a search of the Greenhouses, Terrariums and Bog Gardens forum for "computer fan" I think you should find that thread.

Hope this was of some help. I know it's not a lot.
 
ok.. what if i made a seperate compartment in the hood for just the fan? the fan would be mounted in the middle with space above it and below it. it could draw air in through the 2 inch gap, and it would blow air out the 2 inch gap.


this compartment would be wide enough for the fan. it would be 48 inches long all the way the length of the tank.


heres another idea. i could have twice the number of fans, say, 8 of them. they would be placed at regular intervals. 4 of them would be "upside down" they would suck in air from the tank, and blow it into the compartment, the other 4 would suck air from the compartment, and blow it into the tank.

i could make the whole canopy 6 inches to accomodate this.

they both have problems, i'm sure.
 
wow thats crazy i posted a huge reply to everything you asked last night and now its gone.
Is someone deleting posts ?
 
got me :) could you post it agian from memory though?


i think i con convince my dad to let me ahve 2 cpu fans on each side. but how do i attatch them? i've ehard double sided stick foam works, but he wants something alot more secure. like a clamp or soemthing? i dont want it to look big and bulky.

can someone assure me that the sticky foam stuff is good enough? and will the fan leak any oils or something?
 
  • #10
oh yeah, where can i get some? i dont want to spend more than 10 bucks for each fan and ecerything else i need with it. what is a heat sink?

are there any that i can just "plug and play" and how do i attatch them to the sides of the glass and give them enough room to suck in air?
 
  • #11
Ok well since my first lengthy post to you was lost here goes.

"those bulbs are for aquarium use. are you sure? and how many warm tubes to cool tubes? "

Marketing has nothing to do with spectral quality. I like URI because they are the longest lasting VHO lamp Ive ever used.I have some that are nearly 5 years old and still burn.
Not that they are anywhere near as bright as they were when they were new.

"what can i get a fan? the back of the tank have about 2 inches of open space, theres also a 1.5 inch hole in the back. this has a bulkhead for it because it used to be a saltwater aquarium.
where would i get a small fan? are they any extremely small ones i can use on the inside?  i would be great to ahve magnetic ones. like the fan part goes inside and is held on to the glass by a magnet on the outside. "

Ill give you a link in a second, first I wouldnt recommend using acomputer fan unless youve got some way of running it with out a power supply, this would be verywasteful.
Comp fans run on DC the power in your house is AC you want to find an AC fan for the safest mode of operation. The manner in which I would suggest you mount it is this:
You want the fan to be placed so that it is only circulating air not exchanging it. I like to mount them to the underside of the glass top by drilling 4 holes in the glass top, youll need a special drill bit for this. Then using four 3-4" long machine screws and four aluminum spacer stems and eight nylon washers, these are use on either side of the glass to assist in dampening vibration. I like to use a little pure silicon around the glass to further assist in dampening. The fan should ultimately be oriented so that it is blowing air up against the glass top this way youre allowed maximum circulation without drying your plants out.
You can control the exchange of air by manufacturing some sort of an adjustable cover for the back of your terrarium, this way you can fine tune the amount of air exchange inorder to maintain proper humidity and temperature levels while maintaining proper air circulation.
Here is that link
http://www.midwesthydroponics.com/product....gory=70
Its the second column from the bottom, first item, 100 CFM Axial Fan Active Air Vent Blowers $34.95.

"and are you saying it would be bad to add the 2 other tubes? i would rather use them since they are sitting in the basement and are elss that a year old, and ti would give me a much wider variety of bulbs to use.
on all the sites i've been to, they say that nepenthes thrive under high temps. with 30-35 being excellent. i'd prefer 35 since it gives me more room for error. this tnk will house only lowlanders, no highlanders."

Not bad its just more work thats not entirely necessarry, I just think youve got plenty of light as it is.
You will find that constant temps in the 90s will eventually stress your plants they will also over grow your tank in no time.
The trick to maintaining a terrerium is balancing all of your conditions indorder to maintain lush yet managable growth.
You wouldnt want it to become a chore.
I have found as have many others that plants produce much more consistently under less stressful conditions.
I would recommend daytime temps in the mid to upper eighty's with a 5-15 degree drop at night.

Two of the smallest foggers would be plenty in an enclosed tank such as yours. Youll probably find running them on a timer or humidistat necessarry inorder to keep your humidity with in respectable levels.
I would also highly recommend you get a digital Hygrometer/thermometer combo with min and max memory capabilities. these can usually be found locally at electronics supply stores. Otherwise here, http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/catalog....d=6620.

FWIW
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  • #12
would i need 2 of those fans? or one? and where would i get the drillbit? do i need a special drill for it?
would i need to buy a reptile heating pad and stick it on the underside of the tank? could i attatch it to some sort of thermostat with a prode to sense the temp and turn the heating pad on/off accordingly? where would i get one of those?


also, i dont understand something..... you say that high heat will stress them out, but they will grow over the tank.. this seems like a good thing for them to grow fast? please explain.


thank you soo much!
 
  • #13
One fan should do you plenty. Most hardware stores carry diamond bits made to drill through glass just tell them you want to do so and they should be able to help you, no special drill required though I will say this about drilling through glass, GO SLOW i cant stress this enough the more steadily and gently you drill the less likely you are to break it. This is why I like a drill press if its at all possible to use one by all means do so.
Unless the room temperature your keeping the tank in is droping into the 50s at night I dont think youll need to worry much about additional heating.
One thing Id recommend is to run the system empty for a week or so as if you had plants in it just to make sure everything is functioning properly and your environment is stable. Its much easier to tweak and stabilize a system when it is empty as opposed to full. In the event you do find you need to add some type of additional heating I would recommend a submersible aquarium heater instead of heat mats a submersible heater will be much more efficient. I like Ebo-Jager brand heaters, they last long and dont interfere with your TV or radio.
Numerous problems can arise when first attempting to grow plants in such an intense environment. Fast growth can be good but if you dont have the additional space what do you plan to do with the plant. It can also be difficult to keep up with, ie. watering and nutrients you may see deficiencies which can sometimes lead to toxicities. Higher tempertures can force your plant to move so fast it will actually stop growing. To understand this further you may need to read some basic botanicle literature.
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  • #14
thank you so much! what about those titanium heaters with the titanium probes?
i was going to run it for about a month.. but a week is better, thanks.
So upper 80's and elt it drop a few degrees at night? ok.

also, i'm going to grow orchids and tillandsia in this tank, will 1 fan be enough circulation?


thanks!


also, what am i exactly drilling the glass for? can i just silicon it on there? and how big is the fan? it wont me very hunky will it?
 
  • #15
Here is the basic setup for my terrarium, just thought it might give you some ideas:
The tank size is 30 gallons. 30" long x 12" deep x 12" wide.
I have it lighted with 2 40 watt 48 inch full spectrum florecent lights. I plan on adding one 48 inch cool white and one 48 inch warm light in the future. (I would have added it by now if the electricity bill wasn't so high! ) As for heat, all I needed for such a smlll terrarium was a jar filled to the top with distilled water, with a fish heater inside it, turned all the way up. This also added almost all the humidity that I needed. For circulation, I added this:
tropicaire.jpg

you can buy it here for only 20 dollars:
http://www.petflytrap.com/cataloghtml/accessorycat.html
This also added the rest of the humidity that I needed.
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  • #16
how much does it circulate? it sounds good. i could buy a couple.


what does everyone else think? will one of thsoe on each end be enough circulation?

or would a high powered air bump for about 100-150 be ok? i really dont want fans unless i have to have them.

also,does the ajr serve any purpose? i'll ahve some water in the bottom, can i stick the heater in that?

thanks sooo much!!!
 
  • #17
Why are you so fearful of using a fan? Yes it may be a little expensive but well worth the investment. If your planning on growing orchids and tilladsia in there as well Id say that the fan is required. Using an air pump would be a waste of electricity when compared with most fans.

The reason your drilling the glass is because while silicon may hold the fan initially, for long term stability you need a more solid connection.
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  • #18
i'm fearful because of electricity reasons, its a piece of electrical equipment in water satuarted air.. it doesn't sound safe. its not the money. plus installation would be a *itch since i dont want to drill. plus i have an image of a big hunky fan in there
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  • #19
Khai,

Would a humidifer, small, with a belt in fan work for a 30 gallon. I am building a larger space for orchids and highlands, but this will be for my drosera. I have a smaller one started for my traps. I thought about putting small humidifiers on a self above the plant base. I will place fans to control the complete setup of two terrariums and an enclosed shelf. Right now I have two 48" banks of lights, for four bulbs, above.

The cost will be low. I used to raise lots of fish and have most of the eq. I need to get the temp/humid control.
 
  • #20
JLAP your not using logic in your thinking there.
Tell me how do you think green houses operate? magical fans that run on good feelings?
Shading systems that are operated by gnomes or fairys?
No all these things are powered with electricity.
Perhaps if we were all idiots and never coated any wire/ cable/ cord we might have a problem. As long as you mount the fan according to the directions I gave you and
unless youre activly spraying water into the fan you shouldnt worry.
 
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