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Optimum highland nepenthes terrarium

Hi,

I’m busy with a terrarium at the moment. I want it to be optimized for Highland Neps. I would like to (eventually) grow the more famous species like Lowii, Rajah, Hamata, etc...
Some of them are very slow growers so it would be nice if the terrarium is as optimal as possible to decrease waiting time.

I have several questions but first the specs:

Terrarium: 160 x 50 x 50 cm. 100 gallon / 400 litter capacity.
Lighting: 4 x 58 watt grow lights (Arcadia) Total of: 232 watt.
Reflectors: Each tube will have a reflector on top which increases light output by ~100%.
The back of the terrarium will certainly have reflective material. Perhaps also the sides and bottom.
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I also bought a digital thermometer/hygrometer so I can monitor the whole thing.


Anyway, as promised, here are the questions! ^_^

1)
My biggest concern is temperature. I have ordered 2 dual fitting shop lights but they aren’t in yet. I have no idea how much warmth they generate but I’ve read quite some disturbing topics about terrariums tuning into ovens.

a) Do I have to do anything special to reduce temperatures (especially during the night) or won’t this be a problem?

I will probably need coolers but I have absolutely no knowledge on which ones to use and how.
b) First of all; which types? I’ve read about CPU coolers (heatsink-less?). Are these good or is there anything better/more simple?

c) Secondly; assuming small CPU fans. How much would I need (dimensions: 160x50x50) and what about the placement?
For example: 2 on top blowing downwards, or 2 inside the terrarium in (diagonal) corners to create an air flow in the tank?


2)
Another thing I’m quite clueless about is humidity control.

a) Highland Neps appreciate high humidity and especially high during the night. However also cooler conditions. How do you combine this?
When you activate a cooler won’t this drop the humidity a lot..?

b) What type of mister should I use? (ultrasonic/...?)
Also, how do you install it? I’ve seen constructions where a large mister is placed under the terrarium and the mist is led by PCV pipes into the terra...
Wouldn’t it be better to simply place a small mister inside the tank? (I’ve no idea how big the compact designs are though.
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)

Any other related information about humidity and temperature control will be appreciated.

And finally;
3)
What are the optimal day/nighttime temperatures and also day/nighttime humidity levels for Highland Neps in general?

The Savage Garden says ~15 degree Celsius during the night and ~25 during the day. Can the experts here agree on that? (Because not everything in TSG is 100% correct)

Thank you for reading.
Hope you can help me make an optimal (within a normal budget of course
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) Highland Nepenthes terrarium. When it’s all done I will order quite a lot of expensive plants and it would be sad to see them die.
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-A. Looper.
 
Well, I can try to answer what I can, but it's not much.

1) Shop lights and warmth. Fluorescents don't pump out as much heat as MH, incandescent, or any other light source. It's the right choice in this case.
a) Adjusting temps depends on your ambient temps where the terrarium is located. I don't do anything personally, but live where it's cool.
b) no clue
c) Enough to move the air, but not blow your plants around much.

2 a) The more the air cools, the higher the relative humidity gets. This just happens, unless you're using a cooling method that dries the air, like with an air conditioner.
b) Ultrasonic are the best. But the ones I've seen are big. You can get a small fogger, but must put it in a larger well of water, so you're back to the size issue. That's why some people pump air in. Unless you live where it's real dry, this is probably not necessary for most neps. Terrariums create increased humidity by themselves.

3) It depends on the nep. Some, like N. villosa, like it COLD, while some, like N. hamata, like it cool. The temps you list should work for most of them, though.

What I'd do is set up the tank, put in a cheap nep or two, and see what the temps and humidity do with no extra cooling or humidity, and then adjust accordingly if necessary.

Where do you intend to keep it, and what are the conditions there?

Capslock
 
Thanks Capslock,

I have the terrarium in my PC room (I also happen to sleep there
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*grin*). Not much natural sunlight comes through.

It’s an attic meaning it’s hot(ter) in the summer and cold(er) in the winter. Currently 25 degree Celsius (no lights on yet) and ~65% humidity (no water nearby) so both will increase and it’s mainly the former on which I’m worried about.

The climate in The Netherlands isn’t a very hot one but still I doubt I can lower the temperatures by 10 degree with only a few fans..
Has anyone ever measured how much your ‘cooling installation’ reduces temperatures?

Oh and another thing:
4) Does a ultrasonic mister produce cold mist which could help reduced temperatures?

Thanks again.
smile.gif
 
Ooooh, I love the Netherlands!

You should get good temperature drops for most of the year just from the lights going out. In the hotter months, you might try putting a vase full of ice in there overnight, and just put it back in the freezer during the day. That would be the low-tech, but high effort way. Your humidity will be fine with no mister necessary, and they don't cool that much anyway. I think you can do this, except for perhaps the most demanding of Nepenthes. Lowii and hamata should be fine, but rajah and villosa might require more cooling effort.

Capslock
 
True, the temperatures will most likely be fine most of the year.
And I have no doubt that the humidity is high enough for the plants to grow normally.

However, I want to make a terrarium as optimal as possible. I really don’t mind spending some more money for a good mister if it will allow my plants to grow faster, even if it’s just a little.

The only problem is that I don’t have all the knowledge about good equipment & conditions hence this topic.
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The big challenge is cooling a tank easily and efficiently. A mister will just make it wetter, and you don't necessarily even want that. I'm not the guy to talk to about cooling a tank, though. I've never done it.

Capslock
 
I was just thinking...

How about I just put refrigerated water in a simple spray bottle and manually mist the plants when the lights go out during the night.

It won’t lower the whole temperature inside the terrarium enough by 10 degree but won’t it simply feel the same for the plant?

Kinda like when you are walking on ice it’s not that cold but if you break through the ice you’re suddenly freezing.
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  • #10
An Air conditioner cools by dehumidifying the air. Not exactly what I want.
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Better would be a swamp cooler which cools the air by running it through water but there aren't any small models as far as I know...
 
  • #11
Best bet is an AC unit.  You put some duct between the AC unit and the terrarium and hook the output of an ultrasonic humidifier into the duct before it enters the tank.  Have them wired so the ultrasonic humidifier turns on when the AC is operating.  This will rehumidify the air before it enters the grow chamber.

During the cold outdoor months you can modify the system to just pull cold outside air through the duct and bypass the AC unit.

Swords at www.jurassic-gardens.com uses this type of system.  He might have some info on how to set it all up.
Tony
 
  • #12
What do you think about this one?
It's a small swamp cooler + fan + mister in one.

http://www.everythinghome.com/sumibox....+SF1510

A shame it's just 5 cm too big in height and length to fit inside my terrarium.
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So if I were to buy it I have to redirect the air inside the terrarium.

However I have no idea how much a swamp cooler actually cools in 'one time'. Because the cooler isn't in a closed enviroment... :
The air only goes through the water once and enters the terrarium, which has to push out some other air into my own room again...
Think it will work?

I like your idea Tony. It sounds good in theory but have people actually tried it? AC air without the humidifier will probably harm the plants.
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Oh and do you happen to know a good online site to buy cheap/compact AC units?
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  • #13
That fan thing is just a fancy ultrasonic humidifier.  It will not cool down the air very much.  A true evaporative cooler draws air through a wet pad/filter and some heat is transfered from the air to the water as the air evaporates the water off the pad and rises in humdity a little.  Evaporative coolers generally give about a 10-15f drop in temperature depending on the pad
thickness, airspeed through the pad and the relative humidity of the incoming air.  This would be more like what you would want for an evaporative system. portable evaporative cooler

Your correct about AC air being too dry to pump directly into a grow chamber.  You definately would want to rehumidify it before it enters the grow chamber.  The best way would be an ultrasonic humidifier between the grow chamber and the AC/cold window.  A humidistat located within the duct can control the humidifier or it could be wired to operate when the ac/fan is functioning.

The AC system is a bit more complicated and costs more in parts and energy use but would allow for a larger chamber and more cooling.  I am interested in how well those portable evaportive systems work though ;>

Here in the US small 5000 btu window AC units are all over the place in big discount stores like walmart etc.. usually around $100usd

Tony
 
  • #14
Tony if i had the room to build a grow chamber just for a bunch of highlands i would give it a try for you.........course if you wanted to donate a number of highlands i may be persuaded to get the EC unit and find room for a chamber
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Rattler
 
  • #15
Thanks for your help Tony.

The fan I listed does have some sort of ‘stuff’ which absorbs water so the air goes through it. (on the sides mostly I think)
However I doubt it’s as effective as a real swamp cooler yeah.
Just seemed like it was nice to have some things combined to save space & money.

I have seen that one you listed before (or for that matter pretty much all related products on the site, I’ve been a busy bee these days trying to find the right products
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)

It says: “Cools the direct air stream by up to 15 degrees” and “12 -15 degrees F of cooling power in air path”
I guess it’s fair to assume that when I have it pump the air inside my terrarium (going in at the right side, air going out on the left side) the whole thing will cool with at least 10 degree Fahrenheit (5.5 Celsius)?

Still it’s far from ideal I think.

Do you know how much a compact (/cheap) AC unit can cool? (And I assume adding the sonic humidity won’t affect this much)
 
  • #16
hehe

Just keep in mind the Evap cooler unit could not be placed entirely in the room as the high humidity inside would diminish it's effectiveness substantially. You would need to place the unit outside or find a way to get fresh dry air to the unit inside the room.
 
  • #17
Bleh are you sure? You mean like those window AC’s?
So a EC next to my terrarium blowing the air inside won’t work well?
(They advertise that the device has “High mobility for versatile usage”. I assumed this means you can place it anywhere you like)
 
  • #18
Hi Phyrex

Looks like we overlapped some posts. The EC unit next to your terrarium would work ok but I think that over time you will find it less effective as your air outside the terrarium rises in humidity from the output side of your grow chamber.

An AC unit should be capable of knocking off quite a bit of heat. You would have to ask Swords specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if your outside air temperature is 75 that your terrarium would cool down into the high 40's low 50's fahr. easily.
 
  • #19
I like my room cold, my tank drops to around 65 degrees at night when i turn my ac on and i don't even grow highlands in the tank, but i think i should start. when i turn on the lights the temperature goes up to 90, its a big temperature change, and its accidental, the plants are all growing like crazy.
 
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