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"little shop of horrors" cp suggestions needed
Hello, perhaps it is time for me to fess up and add details as it appears some of my questions are dumb. I am beyond frantic right now. I purchased about $700 worth of CPs and miscellaneous. Of that original purchase, I believe I have only about $50 worth of CPs left as of this morning. Only Sarracenias made it and one clump still standing was from a personal friend. If I can figure out how to post a photo I will but it isn’t a pretty sight. I volunteered to pay for plant material for the kids at the school and we had decided $200 would suffice plus the purchase of the sphagnum and distilled water to get it up and running. The teachers didn’t get a raise last year and many programs were cut. The kids have no science club right now. I figured if I personally paid for “The Little Shop of Horrors” that the kids would get an opportunity to learn about these plants while learning a little bit about bog ecosystems so I figured if a little was good… a lot was better. I increased my mail order purchases to about $600. I additionally purchased non CP plants such as club moss, blue flag iris, lobelia and such to add interest. The teacher was supposed to have been granted approval to sink a bog on the School property back over the summer. I think she waited a little bit too long to get approval from the Priest and the Landscape Committee and by the time she did, we couldn’t get the hole dug because of rain. It even rained on our rain date. No rain for months and then the skies open up and let loose. I felt horrible for her so I planted the school's plants in my bog to try to save them for the kids until we could get a hole dug outside the School. Unfortunately, I didn’t want to tell her I had to plant the darn things as she’d feel really bad for having dragged her heels on getting the approval to dig so I told her they were on hold and would be delivered next spring so not to worry. This is what happens when one lies… one gets in trouble. She has no idea I ordered well in excess of $200. Anyway, the day after I planted them, I saw a cat taking a poop in the middle of the little bog. I ran out waving my arms and it took off. What I noticed was that in addition to stray cats pooping there, squirrels are rooting in and around the plants and are repeatedly uprooting the plants. I thought they were under control in my area. I was wrong. I even found little plants on the ground a few feet away. I tried my best to get them all replanted back in the bog but several had been uprooted for hours while I was at work before I found them and they never made it. I sprinkled red pepper and that worked for a day or so until I found the entire bog uprooted again and plants were strewn everywhere and it looked like something out of a bad Chevy Chase movie about gophers and golf courses. I then sprayed Deer Off and sprinkled red chili powder. This has gone on for a month now. I have tried everything. I bought decoy owls. My husband has pointed out to me that the squirrels are rooting around under the watchful eye of the horned hoot owl decoy. I let the dogs out a few times to chase off the squirrels but I ended up driving around my neighborhood chasing down my dogs that were then on the loose. The idiots ran right past the squirrels and took off for greener pastures. I did call animal control and they have picked up 2 feral cats in the past week and I am fully aware these cats were humanely destroyed but then who wants a feral cat as a pet. There are 7 more out there that haven’t fallen for the trap. I find their poops in the sphagnum daily. The squirrels I don’t know what to do about. I didn’t realize I had so many of them here. They appear to be frantically burying acorns in the nice loose soil of the bog at an unparalleled rate. My husband would like to shoot them at this point in time. I do not want him doing this as there are a handful of red squirrels left (I’m afraid he might get the wrong squirrel) and also because there are organizations out there dealing with the gray squirrel population explosion. We put out sunflower seeds to get an idea of how many gray squirrels we are dealing with and we counted over 20. That means there is double that number out there. I hadn’t seen more than a handful at any given point in time so I really believed there weren’t enough of them to be a problem. I was wrong. Then comes the post here about the birds. Oh Boy, another problem for next spring. I will get netting as I see no other choice. I should have made the connection that birds that eat insects would be a problem. I didn’t until it was mentioned so now I suppose what little is left will get obliterated by the birds if I don’t net the little bog securely. I am slightly overwhelmed and now I really will only be able to spend another $200 on replacement plants for the school to plant next spring so this is why I am trying to compile lists of hardy and appropriate plants while trying to address the critter issues here. I am absolutely miserable and extremely overwhelmed and the deer haven't even found my little bog as of yet however that is only a matter of time until they do. I suppose CPs are a deer delicacy?
Three quality people from another CP forum privately offered me free plants and I am afraid to take anything lest they be destroyed. There are some rather heated discussions over there so I signed up here to stay out of the line of fire. Regardless of whether the Simpson .gif was directed at me or not doesn't matter as I apologized for my ignorance so let's please leave it at that.
I also am still learning about how best to care for CPs so I don’t kill anything with kindness either. A fine mess I have gotten myself into and all I wanted to do was try to get something going for the kids at the school and a little something going for me here at home. I really do love CPs.
Three quality people from another CP forum privately offered me free plants and I am afraid to take anything lest they be destroyed. There are some rather heated discussions over there so I signed up here to stay out of the line of fire. Regardless of whether the Simpson .gif was directed at me or not doesn't matter as I apologized for my ignorance so let's please leave it at that.
I also am still learning about how best to care for CPs so I don’t kill anything with kindness either. A fine mess I have gotten myself into and all I wanted to do was try to get something going for the kids at the school and a little something going for me here at home. I really do love CPs.
PlantAKiss
Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, Engl
Awwwwwwww...so sorry to hear about all that. You do sound overwhelmed!
I can tell you for a fact...there is nothing a squirrel loves more than freshly turned or loose earth. Squirrels are absolutely the worst problem I have with my outdoor garden. They root around looking for nuts or to bury nuts and tear the plants up just like you've described. You will find many posts on the forums about squirrels. I wish I could offer a solution but I haven't found one yet myself. You can buy and try...uh...fox pee. Yes, its bottled. You put a few drops around and it makes the squirrels think a fox has marked the territory. I've heard garlic buried in the soil can work. There are all sorts of methods but I had someone tell me nothing will work except a totally enclosed cage with no loose wires. My microbogs are semi-enclosed and its helped so far...
Hang in there. You will get past this rough patch and have a great bog for your school and kids. And you!
May some people here with extra plants can help replace the ones you lost so you don't have to buy any more.
BTW...welcome to the forums and to the CP hobby.
Suzanne/PAK
I can tell you for a fact...there is nothing a squirrel loves more than freshly turned or loose earth. Squirrels are absolutely the worst problem I have with my outdoor garden. They root around looking for nuts or to bury nuts and tear the plants up just like you've described. You will find many posts on the forums about squirrels. I wish I could offer a solution but I haven't found one yet myself. You can buy and try...uh...fox pee. Yes, its bottled. You put a few drops around and it makes the squirrels think a fox has marked the territory. I've heard garlic buried in the soil can work. There are all sorts of methods but I had someone tell me nothing will work except a totally enclosed cage with no loose wires. My microbogs are semi-enclosed and its helped so far...
Hang in there. You will get past this rough patch and have a great bog for your school and kids. And you!
May some people here with extra plants can help replace the ones you lost so you don't have to buy any more.
BTW...welcome to the forums and to the CP hobby.
Suzanne/PAK
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Hello grim, I have a nice new roll of chicken wire as of today. Won't my husband be happy to know that I have something else to add to his list of things to do. I was not so successful locating fruit tree netting. Seems it is a seasonal item but these plants are going to sleep right about now so I suppose the netting can wait for a bit. I am going to have to have netting in place by spring though. Next on my list is pine needles. I have already removed the layer of leaf mulch. Maybe the prickly pine needles will slow down the critters- maybe not.
Hello jimscott, nice looking yawning cat. Whenever mine open their mouths like that it is normally to gag up a nice juicy hairball or undigested food special for me to clean up! I think I prefer yawns.
Hello PlantAkiss, when one is dumb one pays. I underestimated the damage hungry critters can do. This too shall pass. I've got a few months to learn now and maybe I can start a few CPs inside over the winter. Everything will be ok. I have tried the mail order fox pee. Didn't work. I then read somewhere that human urine would do it so my boys were peeing with wild abandon over here spraying everything. They got such a charge out of getting to pee outside they wouldn't even go inside in favor of running outside to pee and they got all of their friends into the act too. Oh joy. Human pee doesn't work either yet they are still having a free for all out here. I am opting for a chicken wire enclosed cage with netting over the top. We need to get the stakes in the ground fast before the ground starts freezing. That's priority #1 for this weekend. This time of year with all the acorns has got to be the worst.
Hello jimscott, nice looking yawning cat. Whenever mine open their mouths like that it is normally to gag up a nice juicy hairball or undigested food special for me to clean up! I think I prefer yawns.
Hello PlantAkiss, when one is dumb one pays. I underestimated the damage hungry critters can do. This too shall pass. I've got a few months to learn now and maybe I can start a few CPs inside over the winter. Everything will be ok. I have tried the mail order fox pee. Didn't work. I then read somewhere that human urine would do it so my boys were peeing with wild abandon over here spraying everything. They got such a charge out of getting to pee outside they wouldn't even go inside in favor of running outside to pee and they got all of their friends into the act too. Oh joy. Human pee doesn't work either yet they are still having a free for all out here. I am opting for a chicken wire enclosed cage with netting over the top. We need to get the stakes in the ground fast before the ground starts freezing. That's priority #1 for this weekend. This time of year with all the acorns has got to be the worst.
wow... sounds hectic!!!
i was thinking of doing a similar project for my school, for my eagle project. I am a Boyscout, but only star class (only 2 more till i have eagle, and i have all the merit badge requirements, i just need time, and community service!!!)
It sounds like a lot of work though, but i think in the end it would be worth it!!!
Wish you the best of luck,
Hellz
i was thinking of doing a similar project for my school, for my eagle project. I am a Boyscout, but only star class (only 2 more till i have eagle, and i have all the merit badge requirements, i just need time, and community service!!!)
It sounds like a lot of work though, but i think in the end it would be worth it!!!
Wish you the best of luck,
Hellz
Well Hello Hellz!
Extremely impressive that you have only 2 Merit badges remaining out of the requisite 21. Great Job! You may not be aware of this however it is my understanding you are allowed to work with any registered Merit Badge Counselor from any Council, you merely need your blue card signed by the individual prior to working on the Merit Badge. Within about a few weeks, I will be re-registered for Law, Fish & Wildlife, Insect Study, Reptiles & Amphibians, Soil & Water Conservation, Forestry, Nature, Gardening, and Environmental Science. I am no expert by any means but I would be more than happy to help you work toward your goals if any of these are remaining. I'm also thinking that I could sure use some planning help with my dive bombing "Little Shop Of Horrors" and I'm thinking that if you are interested, you could speak with your Troop Master and ask him for approval to help out a "CP challenged" Scout Mom... and I would then be in a position to help you knock down some of those community service hours via the Internet. As you can most assuredly see, I have failed miserably to date. I wasn't exactly prepared now was I?
About your Eagle Scout project.. you will do fine regardless of what you ultimately choose. You have to get messy, take risks, and make a lot of mistakes or you aren't going to learn anything. I am so glad to learn you may be sharing your love of CPs with children. You made this statement, "It sounds like a lot of work though, but i think in the end it would be worth it!!!" I agree. Please understand my project became hectic because I dropped the ball and should have sought help months ago. Should you choose to go forward with a project similar to mine, please count me in for a donation toward the purchase of CPs for the students you will be serving. I am so excited to have run into you here! What a wonderful person you most assuredly are.
Extremely impressive that you have only 2 Merit badges remaining out of the requisite 21. Great Job! You may not be aware of this however it is my understanding you are allowed to work with any registered Merit Badge Counselor from any Council, you merely need your blue card signed by the individual prior to working on the Merit Badge. Within about a few weeks, I will be re-registered for Law, Fish & Wildlife, Insect Study, Reptiles & Amphibians, Soil & Water Conservation, Forestry, Nature, Gardening, and Environmental Science. I am no expert by any means but I would be more than happy to help you work toward your goals if any of these are remaining. I'm also thinking that I could sure use some planning help with my dive bombing "Little Shop Of Horrors" and I'm thinking that if you are interested, you could speak with your Troop Master and ask him for approval to help out a "CP challenged" Scout Mom... and I would then be in a position to help you knock down some of those community service hours via the Internet. As you can most assuredly see, I have failed miserably to date. I wasn't exactly prepared now was I?
About your Eagle Scout project.. you will do fine regardless of what you ultimately choose. You have to get messy, take risks, and make a lot of mistakes or you aren't going to learn anything. I am so glad to learn you may be sharing your love of CPs with children. You made this statement, "It sounds like a lot of work though, but i think in the end it would be worth it!!!" I agree. Please understand my project became hectic because I dropped the ball and should have sought help months ago. Should you choose to go forward with a project similar to mine, please count me in for a donation toward the purchase of CPs for the students you will be serving. I am so excited to have run into you here! What a wonderful person you most assuredly are.
I`m so sorry to hear that Laura
I say shoot the dang squirels and cats!!!!!
(Oh great hopefully Clint,sniper0doom,andKyle won`t hack me now eek.) I hope you get this all worked out. Have you considered keeping them inside in there own individual pots or in a greenhouse? Maybe you (your DH) could build a complete enclosure useing wire and netting? Or perhaps put them under one of those "mosquito tent type thingys".?
Well I hope this works all out for you,
Noah.
Btw. quoteing Wes in Tex (I think) "theres no such thing as a stupid question,so don`t be afraid to ask!" Probably not the exact words but you get the idea.
I say shoot the dang squirels and cats!!!!!
Well I hope this works all out for you,
Noah.
Btw. quoteing Wes in Tex (I think) "theres no such thing as a stupid question,so don`t be afraid to ask!" Probably not the exact words but you get the idea.
Hello pond boy, I do feel like shooting the gray squirrels however I actually need them around for many reasons and quite frankly, I am one of the oddballs who actually enjoys them (10 months out of the year) and my chipmunks. Granted there are too many squirrels here due to circumstances out of my control. The cats are a different story. I currently have 8 indoor only cats that were all former strays. I can't absorb any more or I will end up in divorce court. Most of the cats that are outside are feral and generally they are 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation feral. A byproduct of people who didn't spay and neuter. You may or may not be aware of this but cats are not wildlife here. They are not native to North America. Cats eat NA wildlife and wreak havoc in the environment. I call animal control to pick up the ferals I trap which are humanely destroyed and I personally take the former house pets to a shelter to be adopted out. I pay the fee to get them in where they will be vetted. There are those who believe I should "shoot" them all but I can't bring myself to do it. At least I am getting them "off the streets" so to speak so they are not poisoned or ripped apart by stray dogs or reduced to postage size thicknesses on the road. It is the best I can do as I feel sorry for them. Most communities have a means by which to address feral/stray cat populations and I would encourage anyone struggling with their existence to please consider contacting public health or animal control, they should have loaner traps and they will normally either pick up or allow you to bring what you trap in to their facilities and they can weed out what is feral from what is a stray. Just my humble opinion.
As far as my bog, I just hammered in some stakes myself and I am going to enclose it with chicken wire and cover it with bird netting. The critters won and I lost. I don't have a greenhouse... sure wish I did though.
Noah, thanks for your concern. I really appreciate it.
As far as my bog, I just hammered in some stakes myself and I am going to enclose it with chicken wire and cover it with bird netting. The critters won and I lost. I don't have a greenhouse... sure wish I did though.
Noah, thanks for your concern. I really appreciate it.
Wesley
God must have an interesting sense of humor
I'd like to make a suggestion about the squirrels. If don't want to kill them(though they are really good fried), a good way to keep them out is to distract them with something else, a STEEL(plastci or wood will NOT work as they chew it to pieces) box with corn like the kind you bait a deer with works exceptionally well. As for the deer, hmm... I have nothing at the moment... oh yea, I don't know where to get one but I have a friend who has this little machine that is motion activated and when something moves into it's range it emits this high pitched sound that is not harmful(and hardly hearable) to humans. It would also solve problems with cats, and dogs
He he he... We tried the nice little high frequency machine! One problem, we have three dogs in addition to our cats. Oops, guess I was so desperate I missed the obvious.
I tried the motion detector scare crow. That worked for a while until the raccoons realized it was a great way to wet their food before they ate it and the herons became so desensitized I swear they triggered it intentionally to take a nice bath so they could preen themselves better. It did keep the cats away but only for as long as it took them to figure out how to avoid the stream of water. Cats are crafty.
Wesley, sometimes you just gotta give in and surrender. If I admitted to all the devices and natural pest deterrents I purchased to try to deter them, you would be on the floor holding your ribs while begging me to stop before you seized up from laughter. My husband just fenced in the area with metal stakes and chicken wire and I ordered netting on line which I should receive within the next few days and I am enclosing the area entirely. I give up, the critters win.
Please don't think I'm nuts for liking the squirrels. I'm all for gray squirrel stew, hasenpfeffer, and venison stakes as I do realize that even native species of animals can get out of control given the right conditions. I know the squirrels are out of control here (rabbits and deer too) but I have a Short Eared Owl, a Barred Owl, a Red Shouldered Hawk, and a few Red Tailed Hawks that hang out from time to time and scope the area. If I eliminate the squirrels, I eliminate the Raptors that depend upon them for a food source. I used to have several Screech Owls and one pair of Wood Ducks. A few years ago the English House Sparrows got to them and annihilated their nestlings and eggs to take over their nest cavities. The adult Screech Owls were killed but I think the Wood Ducks may have survived. I also have Turkey Vultures in the late spring through early fall. I supplement their diet by giving them dispatched English House Sparrows and European Starlings. Other than that, they live off of whatever they can scrounge up. I know this sounds horrible to dispatch those two species of birds but the Raptors are magnificent native birds and additionally, when I remove a pair of breeding English House Sparrows from the environment, I remove their ability to disperse non native seed into wetlands. English House Sparrows and European Starlings are capable of eating Rhamnus cathartica & R. frangula berries, Euonymous alata berries, all Calleryana Pear fruits, as well as many others that the native species of critters do not eat.
I want you to know I really liked your idea about distracting the squirrels so I put out a pile of nice fresh soil today. Gosh darnit! They're over in that pile right now having a free for all. Next year I will pick up an el cheapo kiddie swimming pool and fill it up when the acorns start falling and see if that helps with other plantings. Great idea! Wish I would have thought of distraction a while ago as I am not going to be in a position to fence in every planting over here or the busy body board members of the home owner's association will be knocking on my door with a pink slip to take down the fencing. We are not allowed to have any permanent fencing other than that which is necessary for horses or swimming pools and even then it is one particular type of white fencing, yes white.
I tried the motion detector scare crow. That worked for a while until the raccoons realized it was a great way to wet their food before they ate it and the herons became so desensitized I swear they triggered it intentionally to take a nice bath so they could preen themselves better. It did keep the cats away but only for as long as it took them to figure out how to avoid the stream of water. Cats are crafty.
Wesley, sometimes you just gotta give in and surrender. If I admitted to all the devices and natural pest deterrents I purchased to try to deter them, you would be on the floor holding your ribs while begging me to stop before you seized up from laughter. My husband just fenced in the area with metal stakes and chicken wire and I ordered netting on line which I should receive within the next few days and I am enclosing the area entirely. I give up, the critters win.
Please don't think I'm nuts for liking the squirrels. I'm all for gray squirrel stew, hasenpfeffer, and venison stakes as I do realize that even native species of animals can get out of control given the right conditions. I know the squirrels are out of control here (rabbits and deer too) but I have a Short Eared Owl, a Barred Owl, a Red Shouldered Hawk, and a few Red Tailed Hawks that hang out from time to time and scope the area. If I eliminate the squirrels, I eliminate the Raptors that depend upon them for a food source. I used to have several Screech Owls and one pair of Wood Ducks. A few years ago the English House Sparrows got to them and annihilated their nestlings and eggs to take over their nest cavities. The adult Screech Owls were killed but I think the Wood Ducks may have survived. I also have Turkey Vultures in the late spring through early fall. I supplement their diet by giving them dispatched English House Sparrows and European Starlings. Other than that, they live off of whatever they can scrounge up. I know this sounds horrible to dispatch those two species of birds but the Raptors are magnificent native birds and additionally, when I remove a pair of breeding English House Sparrows from the environment, I remove their ability to disperse non native seed into wetlands. English House Sparrows and European Starlings are capable of eating Rhamnus cathartica & R. frangula berries, Euonymous alata berries, all Calleryana Pear fruits, as well as many others that the native species of critters do not eat.
I want you to know I really liked your idea about distracting the squirrels so I put out a pile of nice fresh soil today. Gosh darnit! They're over in that pile right now having a free for all. Next year I will pick up an el cheapo kiddie swimming pool and fill it up when the acorns start falling and see if that helps with other plantings. Great idea! Wish I would have thought of distraction a while ago as I am not going to be in a position to fence in every planting over here or the busy body board members of the home owner's association will be knocking on my door with a pink slip to take down the fencing. We are not allowed to have any permanent fencing other than that which is necessary for horses or swimming pools and even then it is one particular type of white fencing, yes white.
Wesley
God must have an interesting sense of humor
sorry, I couldn't help much with the deer, and racoons... the only way I know how to get rid of a coon is to trap it and move it "far far away", or shoot it(which in season is fun, same for crows...). Anyway, best of luck, and I hope they allow you to keep your fencing. White... wow, that is really sad, it gets dirty so easily.
Wesley
God must have an interesting sense of humor
Hi Wesley, I have Blue Bird nesting boxes and I have bird feeders too. We refer to the bird feeders as kitty cat McDonald's Happy Meals. This is why I am trying to be conscientious about keeping the HavAHarts set and baited. The issue with the English House Sparrows is that they need the insects to feed their nestlings. They are omnivorous. You are right though, they'd much prefer to not have to work for their food and it is probably easy pickins to fly back and forth to nice patches of CPs. The old stimulus response. Birds may be lazy but they are not stupid. Why fly through the woods in search of food if the nice human has the insect smorgasbord all concentrated to one area. Bummer. I did a little checking around and because we are inundated with English House Sparrows, the only two people I located around here who have CPs said they were netting them and they told me I really needed to follow suit. I already have after the issues with the squirrels.
Hello pond boy, To a certain degree I am a blah blah blah animal rights person, however, the rights in my opinion go to human critters (public health) first then to native species of fauna and never to exotic invasive species such as Cane Toads, Cats, Nutria, Dogs, English House Sparrows and so forth and so on. I am of the opinion exotic invasive species should be either responsibly maintained as household pets or eradicated which means in my book... humanely destroyed so as to reduce further damage to our fragile ecosystems. Exotics species don't hold the exclusive rights to havoc being wreaked in the environment. Even native species can become problematic. Raccoons, like deer, can pose issues of their own and there are times when the best interests of the human "critter" are served if the animal is humanely destroyed.
Hello pond boy, To a certain degree I am a blah blah blah animal rights person, however, the rights in my opinion go to human critters (public health) first then to native species of fauna and never to exotic invasive species such as Cane Toads, Cats, Nutria, Dogs, English House Sparrows and so forth and so on. I am of the opinion exotic invasive species should be either responsibly maintained as household pets or eradicated which means in my book... humanely destroyed so as to reduce further damage to our fragile ecosystems. Exotics species don't hold the exclusive rights to havoc being wreaked in the environment. Even native species can become problematic. Raccoons, like deer, can pose issues of their own and there are times when the best interests of the human "critter" are served if the animal is humanely destroyed.
Is there any type of an affordable portable mini greenhouse that could be placed behind the school on the asphalt by bike racks? The exposure would be western but the area is blocked from wind in that it is in a U shaped courtyard. Nothing fancy but more so utilitarian? Appears the school is very much interested in the CPs. The actual science room is at capacity (almost 25 assorted CPs) for plants right about now as they needed to set aside space for a few more plants coming in as well as any CPs they get to germinate from seed. No great rush on this but more so something I might want to purchase for them for next September.
