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Utricularia id plz...

  • #21
thanks for the clarification rattler. so i should be looking out for tubers.
 
  • #22
for the most part but at certain times my various orchidioides didnt have tubers which always worried the heck out of me cause should they crash while there are no tubers your likely screwed......not sure exactly what triggers tuber development and what makes them stay around and occasionally disappear....has to be some sort of seasonal type clue cause i could never nail it down to the amount moisture.....if yah find tubers its a pretty sure sign but lack of them doesnt mean its not for sure......

flower and trap morphology are about the only set in stone ways to tell for sure.......which sucks at times i know but it is what it is.....
 
  • #23
Oh yeah DD is legit? That makes me happy!

I've never had U. longifolia bloom yet even though it grows easily enough, so I dunno what my chances are with this one!
 
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  • #24
@swords: oh yeah, the guy's a pretty prominent in the ICPS community, and has connections with people like Allen Lowrie. he specializes in Stylidium (dern) but im sure he wouldnt stake his reputation by giving out the wrong plants.
 
  • #25
I believe Utricularia nephrophylla is the most likely assessment.
 
  • #26
@tamlin: thanks for your input---unfortunately, i do not think the plant i have in question is U. nephrophylla, the reason being that ii have a culture of U. nephrophylla as well in my collection. the leaves of U. nephrophylla are much MUCH smaller than the plant i have in question.

@swords: found out that DD's U. quelchii may have originated from the person that i originally purchased from--however, DD also sells tubers of the plant, from which i understand, only orchidioides Utrics produce, so my original plant may very well be U. quelchii. however right now it's behaving in a manner that screams U. tricolor to me.
 
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  • #28
i seriously am beginning to suspect that most U. quelchii in the US is not the real deal ...
Even if some of the U. quelchii currently being shared is actually U. tricolor, there are still other growers with the real deal.

i've been asking around from site to site and have gotten no replies. i have a few questions:
1) does anybody know if U. quelchii has a differing juvenile and adult leaves?
2) how long does it take for U. quelchii to produce adult leaves
3) does anybody have photos of growth in progress for U. quelchii ?
Question #1, the following pics are from a clump of absolute, definite, verified U. quelchii (I received the clump from a reputable European supplier & it had 2 ~6" leaves exactly shaped as seen in pics of adult plants. The plant went downhill & I now only have small remnants from the original).
UquelchiitinyRS.jpg
Uquelchiitiny1RS.jpg

The leaves on the left are thicker & darker green (similar to those in pics shared by Av). The ones on the right are much lighter in color & more variable in shape. The ones on the right also have a more extensive underground stolon network than the ones on the left.

Question #2 - I don't know (having not raised an immature plant to adulthood) but I've got to believe that it would highly depend on the conditions. Some idea could probably be inferred from Rattler's recent U. alpina 'Pittier moon' flower experience.

Question #3 - I believe that you can see various growth stages in pics from Bob Z's photofinder.

@Taliesin-DS - I believe that Nicole is a 'she'. :blush:

In adding some U. quelchii clones to my collection - it seems that I've also added two U. tricolor -looking plants from independent sources .... It'll be interesting to see how they develop.
 
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  • #29
I'm sure there are many variations but FWIW

Please excuse the poor google Czech to English translation...

Botanical description

Utricularia quelchii

Underground shoots in small numbers , relatively thick , branched , to 20 cm long , 0.5 - 1 mm thick , sometimes ztlustlé at the base and the nodes, which produce spherical tubers up to 1 cm long .

Assimilation shoots number of thin ( 1 - more ) maturing on base or in some nodes of underground shoots . Are long petiolate , the blade is obovate with the wedge base and rounded top, up to 2 cm wide , about 1 mm thick , mnohonervá , kožovitá , total length 10 cm.

Traps (vesicles) numerous relatively long vlásečnicových branched ends of underground shoots , round , 0.6 - 1 mm long , shortly pedunculated , the mouth of the basal two backward curved short šídlovitými growths .

All vegetative parts (except the leaf petiole and distal ) and growth of base more or less covered with a mixture of spherical and sedentary shortly conical glands .


Utricularia quelchii
Inflorescence erect , 7-20 cm long , peduncle conical rod , altissima , in upper arcade , a strong 0.5 to 1.2 mm .

Listen to adherent base , ovoid or narrowly ovoid with a blurred peak , 3-4 mm long .

Listénce narrowly ovate, as long or slightly longer than the bracts , based nesrostlé with prophyll .

Flowers 1 or 2 , kvění stems upright , oval in transverse section , 0.8 to 2.5 cm long .

Chalice mouth same , broadly ovate , 1 - 1.8 cm long , with a purple tinge of maturity .

Crown 3-4 cm long , much pink-red with yellow spot at base of lower lip . Upper lip broadly obovate with a rounded top , much shorter than calyx. Edge of lower lip transversely oval in outline , up to 4 inches wide with a rounded top. Edge of the floor a little backwater . Spurl šídlovitá from narrowly conical base with a blunt peak , more than the lower lip, the middle more or less strongly curved, the top ( peak ) Arcade 1.5 - 2 mm thick and in the direction of lower lip . curved rods , about 2.5 mm long , prašníková bush expressive . Ovary oval , shorter boom , the bottom tip of stigma shorter severed , the upper tip ( lobe ) less trojúhlý .

Capsule very broadly ovoid, nearly spherical, with indirect shuttle belly , approximately 6 mm long , the same firm texture and bursting blanitá single longitudinal slit .

Seeds numerous , closely spindle cone , about 0.8 mm long , the entire pollen always tetrádách

Sources used
Taylor , Peter , The Genus Utricularia - and taxonomic Monograph , 1989
http://www.darwiniana.cz/vamr/?page=rostlina&id=15
 
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  • #30
@RL: totally agree with you---you and av8tor are two examples of that :) i meant more along the lines of U. quelchii being circulated within the US and not from outside sources...
something that i observed about your U. quelchii : although the colors of the leaves may have changed, the leaves still exhibit that obovate shape whereas mine resembles along the lines of a obicular/reniform shape.
@av8tor: thanks a lot for that descriptor. --would have been a pain to buy that textbook...
 
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  • #31
Mine is starting to show many of the described characteristics
IMG_2040sm.jpg


Av
 
  • #32
@av: i might pester you when you have some U. quelchii to spare ;) your leaves appear to be very thick where as mine are thin. dont know of any environmental factors that would cause this. i'll take an updated photo of mine currently for a comparison.

does anybody have any orchidioides which exhibit juvenile and adult leaves? i've never heard of any Utric exhibiting juvenile and adult leaves until i purchased a U. quelchii. for the longest time, i thought Utrics made out the same relatively consistent leaf shape from seed (the first primitive leaves being the exception). i know rattler said his U. alpina looked like U. livida for a time. care to share pics?
 
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  • #33
just an update, got an email back from nicole:
"The pictures is not so good, but for me that doesn’t look like U. quelchii. The young leaves of U. quelchii are more narrow… That looks like U. tricolor (90%) or something else… You’ve got two options: wait for the flower or microscope the traps! ;-)"

she also mentioned that she had at least 5 variants of U. quelchii in her possession at one time or another so im betting she knows her stuff. im going to try to contact both people whom i've purchased from---hope to get this mess sorted out. i might need some help (bay area folks in particular--since im betting we all got ours from the same source) if i get no response---well, i think that raises a bright sanguine flag in the air.
 
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  • #34
None of the ebayers selling "U. quelchii" have seen it flower, the seller who always uses the same pic of the U. quelchii on the picnic table claims his makes tubers and "leaves look way different than U. tricolor" however, none of us think so. I'm betting what he's done is grow the two close together and tricolor invaded his quelchii pot (If indeed he even has it). And if the guy who never uses photos got his from that guy, well then there we are... :(

But the no-picture guy has posted "U. quelchii" tubers for sale, of course, who knows what they are really tubers of... If you haven't contacted these guys yet tell em about this topic, see if they'll come here with pics and prove us wrong. I forgot to mention it when I contacted the picnic table picture guy last week.
 
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  • #35
potatoes?

What would we be looking for on the traps under a scope? Also what level of magnification? Might be able to help out. I have U. tricolor and can see what it has as I have some for certain U. tricolor. Seems all the for certain U. quelchii seem to have more up right leaves and U. tricolor bends at a 90 degree angle at soil level
 
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  • #36
progression of my U. alpina from seedlings to blooming....cant tell yah the span of time between other than i received the seed roughly 4 years ago

thats my finger to the left
Untitled-1-7.jpg


IMG_0906.jpg


IMG_1064.jpg


IMG_0883-1.jpg


IMG_0988n.jpg


DSCF2386.jpg
 
  • #37
@kulamaui: i've asked Nicole the same question. hope to hear from her as well. i'll be looking at my U. qulechii sample under the scope as well. (pays to work at a biotech lab that is currently working on a project involving PCR micro-reactors)

@swords: did that.

@rattler: thanks for your pics. from what i can pool from nicole and you, is that most if not all orchidioides Utrics create narrow strapped shaped leaves when young, then become more spathulate/cuneate as they mature.

oh and another thing, is everybody's "U. quelchii" staying low to the ground instead of trying to extend upwards?
 
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  • #38
What would we be looking for on the traps under a scope? Also what level of magnification?
Nicole started an ambitious project a while back to illustrate the leaves, flowers & traps of all utric species. On the actual web page, she does have pics of both U. quelchii & U. tricolor traps. If you ask, she may be able to share others....

..... is that most if not all orchidioides utrics create narrow strapped shaped leaves when young, then become more spathulate/cuneate as they mature.
Although it's probably obvious, U. reniformis, U. nelumbifolia & U. nephrophylla differ. In addition U. humboldtii often forms fern-like leaves prior to their more 'normal' Orchidioides-style.

oh and another thing, is everybody's "U. quelchii" staying low to the ground instead of trying to extend upwards?
So far - both of my U. tricolor imitators are ...
 
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  • #39
Fantastic link RL - Thanks!
 
  • #40
so here it goes:
first i will show you nicole's photos with highlighted characteristics:
U. quelchii:
definingquelchiicharacteristics.png

U. tricolor:
definingtricolorcharacteristics.png


and here are mine:
from AH (skiier)
quelchi-skiier.png

quelchi-skiier-2.png


and from DD
quelchi-darnowski-2.png


while DD does have a slight extension on the bladder, it does not have spherical sized extensions (at least at the size that we expect to see according to nicole's pictures. plus the extension may appear to be so because of the angle at which the image was taken.

i've come to the conclusion that both are U. tricolor. what are your opinions?
 
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