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Utricularia id plz...
- Thread starter amphirion
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- quelchii utricularia
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
the plot thickens---perhaps the plant in question is U. quelchii all along 
Here's a email sent to me from skiier regarding his sources and U. qulechii:
"Over the past couple of years I have received quelchiis from Tony Gridley
and Lois O. The first one I got from Tony, then a while later I got one from
Lois. The three photos not named "U. quelchii from Lois" are the plants that
I got from Tony. I will also say that the ones from Lois have not always
produced small leaves, it has only been producing small leaves in the last
6-8 months. I would guess that this reduction in leaf size is due to the
unfavorable conditions it has been experiencing in my greenhouse or perhaps
it is because the plant is in a state of pseudo-dormancy. The photo of the
plant from Lois was taken earlier today; I could not find any photos of the
plant when I first received it. The other quelchii (the one from Tony) has
also been reduced in size to some extent since I got it. If you look at the
photos (you will need to zoom in on the quelchii) titled "U. dichotoma
flowers" and "img_0627" the U. quelchii plant is in the pot furthest from the
camera. Also if you look at the labels you can see that there are no U.
tricolors in the group. These photos were taken a few days after I received
the plants from Tony. At this time the leaves were looking much more like
quelchii leaves than tricolor leaves because of their upright teardrop
shape. Since there is no U. tricolor anywhere in my greenhouse, it seems
likely that the U. quelchii leaves currently look like U. tricolor leaves due to a
combination of environmental conditions and natural variation in the
species. I have recently changed the potting media for all my 'epiphytic'
Utrics to 100% live sphagnum moss and they seem to do much better in this
media than any other media. I have also noticed that many 'epiphytic' Utrics
will only produce tubers when they dry out (not too much) between watering.
If they are kept wet 100% of the time, it stands to reason they don't need
tubers to store their own water. I say this because it is what I found to be
the case when I conducted an experiment on the matter. Here is what I did: I
put a cutting of U. quelchii x praetermissa (both are tuberous species) in
the drain in my greenhouse which dries out when the reverse osmosis is not
running. After two months, the cutting produced few, large leaves as well as
a tuber. On the other hand, I took a U. alpina x endresii (both are
tuberous) cutting from the parent plant which has many tubers and put it in
a basket with live sphagnum which was kept wet nearly all the time. It still
has not produced any tubers.
I realize that the leaves these plants currently produce
look very much like U. tricolor leaves. But when you look at the leaves this
plant had when I first received it, added to the fact that the plant
produces tubers when allowed to dry out between watering it seems very
likely that this plant is indeed U. quelchii. I hope this sheds new light on
the probable identity of these plants. If you still have questions or
doubts, please feel free to continue the conversation."
im inclined to believe him. he also sent pictures of his U. quelchii, and they have leaves that resemble very much to Ron's plants which makes me believe that something possibly about my conditions causes it to grow U. tricolor like leaves--i've also noted in his photos that he has them waterlogged. i'll post the pictures as soon as i get permission from him.
Here's a email sent to me from skiier regarding his sources and U. qulechii:
"Over the past couple of years I have received quelchiis from Tony Gridley
and Lois O. The first one I got from Tony, then a while later I got one from
Lois. The three photos not named "U. quelchii from Lois" are the plants that
I got from Tony. I will also say that the ones from Lois have not always
produced small leaves, it has only been producing small leaves in the last
6-8 months. I would guess that this reduction in leaf size is due to the
unfavorable conditions it has been experiencing in my greenhouse or perhaps
it is because the plant is in a state of pseudo-dormancy. The photo of the
plant from Lois was taken earlier today; I could not find any photos of the
plant when I first received it. The other quelchii (the one from Tony) has
also been reduced in size to some extent since I got it. If you look at the
photos (you will need to zoom in on the quelchii) titled "U. dichotoma
flowers" and "img_0627" the U. quelchii plant is in the pot furthest from the
camera. Also if you look at the labels you can see that there are no U.
tricolors in the group. These photos were taken a few days after I received
the plants from Tony. At this time the leaves were looking much more like
quelchii leaves than tricolor leaves because of their upright teardrop
shape. Since there is no U. tricolor anywhere in my greenhouse, it seems
likely that the U. quelchii leaves currently look like U. tricolor leaves due to a
combination of environmental conditions and natural variation in the
species. I have recently changed the potting media for all my 'epiphytic'
Utrics to 100% live sphagnum moss and they seem to do much better in this
media than any other media. I have also noticed that many 'epiphytic' Utrics
will only produce tubers when they dry out (not too much) between watering.
If they are kept wet 100% of the time, it stands to reason they don't need
tubers to store their own water. I say this because it is what I found to be
the case when I conducted an experiment on the matter. Here is what I did: I
put a cutting of U. quelchii x praetermissa (both are tuberous species) in
the drain in my greenhouse which dries out when the reverse osmosis is not
running. After two months, the cutting produced few, large leaves as well as
a tuber. On the other hand, I took a U. alpina x endresii (both are
tuberous) cutting from the parent plant which has many tubers and put it in
a basket with live sphagnum which was kept wet nearly all the time. It still
has not produced any tubers.
I realize that the leaves these plants currently produce
look very much like U. tricolor leaves. But when you look at the leaves this
plant had when I first received it, added to the fact that the plant
produces tubers when allowed to dry out between watering it seems very
likely that this plant is indeed U. quelchii. I hope this sheds new light on
the probable identity of these plants. If you still have questions or
doubts, please feel free to continue the conversation."
im inclined to believe him. he also sent pictures of his U. quelchii, and they have leaves that resemble very much to Ron's plants which makes me believe that something possibly about my conditions causes it to grow U. tricolor like leaves--i've also noted in his photos that he has them waterlogged. i'll post the pictures as soon as i get permission from him.
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I picked up some of what I think is this plant from the auction. The possible U. quelchii. I'm having a bit different growth than some of you so I thought I'd offer my input.
Parts of the Utric I have look just like the photo on the first page, parts do not. I have variation of leaf shapes over 4-6 pots of that Utric. I also have some vining, which I have never experienced with tricolor. There is a bad photo of this below, that vine is approx 10" or so and growing. I'm now just starting to get some more Orchidioides type baby leaves growing out of the bottom of one of the pots, its only about 1/2" tall and 1/4" round (yes round) right now but there is hope.
I have not examined the bladders yet because I don't want to disrupt them.
I have a U. humboltii with an adult leaf with two U. tricolor shaped leaf right next to it, the leaves are taller and have some texture but the shape is perfect.
Anyway here are two photo's of the oddish growth, given similair conditions my U. tricolor do not grow anything like that.
Note the long vining growth with no leaves/bladders it is from the Utric. Sorry for the bad photo's, not alot of time tonight.
Here is a good view of the multi-shaped leaves. Growing out of the same plant.
Parts of the Utric I have look just like the photo on the first page, parts do not. I have variation of leaf shapes over 4-6 pots of that Utric. I also have some vining, which I have never experienced with tricolor. There is a bad photo of this below, that vine is approx 10" or so and growing. I'm now just starting to get some more Orchidioides type baby leaves growing out of the bottom of one of the pots, its only about 1/2" tall and 1/4" round (yes round) right now but there is hope.
I have not examined the bladders yet because I don't want to disrupt them.
I have a U. humboltii with an adult leaf with two U. tricolor shaped leaf right next to it, the leaves are taller and have some texture but the shape is perfect.
Anyway here are two photo's of the oddish growth, given similair conditions my U. tricolor do not grow anything like that.
Note the long vining growth with no leaves/bladders it is from the Utric. Sorry for the bad photo's, not alot of time tonight.
Here is a good view of the multi-shaped leaves. Growing out of the same plant.
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The vine I'm guessing is looking for another "bromeliad", its about to hit a moist piece of driftwood so that may trigger some leaves/bladders.
The multi-shaped leaves have never been odd for me and Orchidioides.
Weird!
Last night I moved my "U. quelchii" to a 3" net pot instead of the cube, I'm thinking that perhaps the drier conditions will change its growth a bit and hopefully get it spreading through the media in search of more moisture to give me more material to play around with. After 2 months I still only have 5 leaves and 1 - 1 1 /2" of roots while the U. tricolor has filled its container of the same size in that time.
While I was moving it I had a look at the roots and traps, they are definitely larger in diameter than the roots and traps which are visible against the side of my tricolor terrarium.
Last night I moved my "U. quelchii" to a 3" net pot instead of the cube, I'm thinking that perhaps the drier conditions will change its growth a bit and hopefully get it spreading through the media in search of more moisture to give me more material to play around with. After 2 months I still only have 5 leaves and 1 - 1 1 /2" of roots while the U. tricolor has filled its container of the same size in that time.
While I was moving it I had a look at the roots and traps, they are definitely larger in diameter than the roots and traps which are visible against the side of my tricolor terrarium.
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I'm trying ...
I grow my 'highlanders' in my basement. The sensitive ones suffer in the summer (like N. jamban & D. schizandra) but tend to thrive the rest of the year. I've also found that some 'sensitive' plants really aren't very sensitive at all (ie: I kept N. hamata year round in my office tank & it thrived). I haven't seen any 'sensitivity' with U. humboldtii, U. nelumbifolia & U. reniformis (in fact I'll probably start a new thread to share some surprising info on U. reniformis).Otoh I got off on the wrong foot with my 1st U. quelchii and haven't yet recovered. Once it 'crashed' last year a few months after I received it, I've been trying to nurse small living fragments back to life - mostly unsuccessfully (although my 'outsourcing' program is going well) ...
Man that looks like an aerial stolon from a U. humboldtii or U. nelumbifolia - I've got them all over (but not on U. quelchii / U. tricolor). According to Wiki, U. quelchii grows '...and sometimes in the water-filled leaf axils of the bromeliad Brocchinia species." If that's true, maybe they have a quasi-latent ability to use the wandering aerial stolons to relocate ... very interesting! The plot continues to thicken ...
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The description mentions the surface areas being covered with conical glands...
"All vegetative parts (except the leaf petiole and distal ) and growth of base more or less covered with a mixture of spherical and sedentary shortly conical glands "
(google translation)
Would these meet that criteria?
please excuse the residue, applied trich a couple days ago
Av
"All vegetative parts (except the leaf petiole and distal ) and growth of base more or less covered with a mixture of spherical and sedentary shortly conical glands "
(google translation)
Would these meet that criteria?
please excuse the residue, applied trich a couple days ago
Av
@ av: dunno---i think so. but then again, im defaulting yours as a reference point. i am sure you and a few others have the real deal; especially if yours came from a primary vendor overseas. mine, i got from within the states so my situation is a little more iffy. skiier's explanation and photographs did help ease my mind a little, which is why i havent just went ahead and done an overseas order already.
