What was the final total from the '05 auction?

[Capslock]

From an outsider's perspective, it seems that there are some ambitions that are beyond the scope of the entity. First, running a real, official non-profit takes FULL-TIME committment from people who have the knowledge and experience to do so. It also takes upfront money - lawyers, paperwork, etc. It involves ongoing expenses. These things are non-trivial, and not something that people can casually do in their off-time.

Perhaps the best thing to do is re-evaluate the realisitc goals of the NASC. Perhaps it's best kept at a casual "club" level for a while. Whatever goals the NASC has should be realistic and attainable given the people involved and the time and expertise they can provide. Even merely having the occasional fund-raising auction and donating the money to worthy causes is a viable and worthwhile undertaking. But if that's going to be the practical extent of it, that needs to be understood and discussed.

Just looking at this thread, it's pretty clear the ambitions and dreams outstripped the capacity to fulfill them. It's not the end of the world, or even a bad thing. But everyone should be honest about what's happened and likely to happen in the future.

Capslock

PS: Go after Casper. He stole money from a lot of us - everyone who took part in the auction, bottom line. I donated a N. hamata, and didn't do it for Casper's gain.

 

[philcula]

Quote[/b] (Capslock @ Oct. 14 2005,4:29)]PS: Go after Casper. He stole money from a lot of us - everyone who took part in the auction, bottom line. I donated a N. hamata, and didn't do it for Casper's gain.

I second the motion. I believe this should be the subject of priority right now. As I understand it the NASC has not achieved Non Profit status yet and I keep reading that the board members, whoever they are, are waiting to discuss what actions they are going to take. If Non Profit status has not been achieved yet then isn't the NASC still considered a hobbiest circle? It would appear that the intention is not to do anything at all and just let it slip by.

I have decided, just for my own personal piece of mind, to consult my attorney and get the details on what can be done as a hobbiest member...even though I did not partake in last year's auction. Maybe it doesn't take a vote from the board if the NASC is not a legally registered entity.

I'm certainly not trying to create animosity here but I have many good friends who contributed both plant material and monies towards the NASC cause and are frustrated as hell that nobody is taking even the slightest stance to pursue Casper. So as an outsider I'm going to look into it. I work with one of the best attornies in the Bay Area and he'll consult with me for free. Perhaps there is nothing I nor any of us 'non board members' can do but I would like to know all the details for myslef. I'm sure there are loopholes that we are not aware of. And if there aren't and I am going off on a tangent then my mind will rest at ease. At least I will have felt that I personally made a contribution to preserve the name of the NASC at the very least.

 

[LauraZ5]

Quote[/b] ]Posted by PlantAKiss on June 22 2005,10:04
I'm not going to argue with you.  You have your opinions and I have mine.  If you wish to continue to publicly bash me and NASC, feel free.  Go for it! I really don't care.  I tendered my resignation to the Board last week.  It is up to them to vote for acceptance or not.

Interesting.  I read PAKs comments directed to April as did many others. Most people resign and call it a day yet she did conscientiously choose to add that little accept or reject blurb. I've been on several Boards before and I'm still active on one right now. I've seen this card pulled a few times. It has been my experience that when "we" (past and present not for profit Boards I was elected to serve on) received a resignation such as hers that appeared to be a ploy by the individual to be begged to stay, “we” called an emergency session to formally accept the resignation to avoid having to address future comments such as the ones just posted by PAK in which she basically stated she resigned back then but really didn't.  Not that a vote or a formal acceptance of any resignation is necessary though.  When an individual tenders their resignation then broadcasts their resignation as she did, a swift and expeditious formal acceptance just better enables the outgoing Executive Board Member to better stick to their word. FYI, tendered resignations only go to a vote on the Big Screen. They get accepted unconditionally in real life with very few exceptions. She had no contractual obligation to the NASC. None of us did.  

Quote[/b] ]Posted by 0zzy on June 20 2005,9:31
April, I replied to what you said... You said the NASC don't exist. You're almost right. We are not up and running yet, and we don't have the ablity to save many plants, YET. There was some people that wanted to put the horse before the cart and start going out and save plants, get our name out before we really even existed. The first thing we need to do is to get non-profit status. Then we can move forward. If you don't want to be part of this there is nobody forcing you to. We don't need somebody hanging around telling us what we're doing wrong when she don't have a clue to what's going on behind the scene. The board members were elected. I don't know who choose Casper, that was before I was a real part of the NASC. Again this is another thing where you're running your mouth but don't know any facts. Casper had or has a teminal disease. We don't know if he's even alive. He was an honest man, that had no need to steal any money. You have no right to drag his name through the mud, when you don't have a clue who he is or his physical condition.

All of this is moot as it appears many have not been provided with a “behind the scenes look” at what is really going on. The former President and Vice President included. I believe the NASC is beyond crippled and has lost all credibility and in some circles, it is being referred to as a "comedy of egos" with one person even commenting that an instructional video on how to destroy a great idea should be marketed and sold using the acts of all the members from the NASC who did not act as a team. Come now, I seriously doubt the caliber of volunteer “we” were looking to attract to the NASC would be interested in exposing themselves to liability associated with what is deemed a "runaway board" in the industry with no general liability or E&O insurance that isn’t even incorporated currently saddled with a chunk of money out there that will need to be accounted for sooner or later. I’m thinking that perhaps it is in all of our best interests to seriously pursue transferring those auction funds over to The Nature Conservancy or to Botanique in this calendar year so they can be put to good use within an established organization that has leadership in place. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but in order to file tax returns on that money, I suspect those federal ID’s are going to have to be applied for and the NASC would have to be incorporated. I doubt seriously if there would be time to apply for not for profit status in this calendar year so the NASC would be taxed as a for profit corporation. I suspect that by the time all the professional fees were paid, there would be a balance due with absolutely nothing left to pay tax liabilities or to carry over into the next year when professional services would again be needed. Who will claim responsibility for any balances due on professional services?  Do “we” hold another auction and another and another?  Losing Copper’s time and talent as well as all of her contacts to pro bono professional services may be the final blow to the NASC.

I for one wanted my auction contributions to go to conservation efforts as opposed to administration and set up costs. It doesn’t appear that will ever happen with Copper and her contacts gone and that places the NASC in an extremely vulnerable position as professional services are most assuredly still needed and it is doubtful they will be free or even available at a reduced rate with her gone. I can guarantee I will not offer to contribute funds to cover professional services to the NASC at this juncture because I certainly do not feel comfortable with what is going on and I might as well drive down Interstate 64 tossing ten dollar bills out my car window as the effect would be about the same.

Getting rid of the auction money like a hot potato would lend some closure to this mess and free up those interested so they could pursue a brand new conservancy (NACPC.org? North American Carnivorous Plant Conservancy?) There was merit to some of 0zzy’s past comments in which he stated he didn’t understand why the conservancy was exclusively for Sarracenia anyway.  Anyone not left with a bad taste in their mouth still interested in participating in a not for profit conservancy could feel free to start a new one up from scratch using their resources and contacts, OR volunteer and/or donate their time and talent to actual not for profits where they would be able to receive a tax deductible donation slip for their contributions, OR they could just incorporate a for profit conservancy on their own and at their own expense and then they could pick and choose whomever they want to be members of their conservancy and nobody would have to answer to any silly old elected Board. They’d be able to do what they wanted, when they wanted, and at whomever’s expense without a care in the world. No need to be team players at all in this last scenario!

Quote[/b] ] Posted by PlantAKiss on June 21 2005,3:24
I'm not happy about the situation but I still care more about Casper's well-being than the money.  It's not like a million dollars disappeared.  Yes, it was a nice chunk of change and no, no one is very thrilled about its status in limbo, but I don't see it as an issue to get bogged down over… I will consider Casper a friend until facts prove otherwise. I'm sorry...that's just how I am.   Right now, no one knows what happened and who am I to sit in judgement of the situation without all the facts.  I'm not a judgemental person and I don't "call into question the character" of someone until I know all the facts regarding a particular situation.  And how do you know "nothing has been done about it"??....

Quote[/b] ]Posted by PlantAKiss on June 21 2005,8:46
To me, he was a friend whom I talked to on the phone, online, via PM and email.

For the record, I happen to know legal action wasn’t pursued although it would appear PAK would have others believe differently. To even suggest that he be pursued was deemed taboo at times. I’m really sorry for PAK but it would appear her ability to act in the best interests of the Board may have been impaired. It’s that old conflict of interest I mentioned earlier.

This sums it up for me-

Quote[/b] ] Posted by aprilh on June 21 2005,9:27
Secrets are for 5 year olds.

 
This being said, I sincerely hope a Board meeting for the NASC is called so these issues can be addressed by whoever is left and minutes can be taken and posted for all to see. I’m confident there is enough body count for a quorum.

 

[LauraZ5]

Sorry, I was typing when those posts came in.

Capslock, great point-

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps it's best kept at a casual "club" level for a while.

Philcula, to the best of my knowledge, whatever is going on is outside of the protective auspices of the Board-

Quote[/b] ]whoever they are, are waiting to discuss what actions they are going to take.

Quote[/b] ]If Non Profit status has not been achieved yet then isn't the NASC still considered a hobbiest circle?

 Not necessarily. Representations were made to the contrary and people relied upon those representations when participating in the auctions.

One final thought.. what about asking the people who contributed plants and other goods for this year's auction what they think.

A Board meeting should be called though.

 

[Capslock]

In light of the unknowns with the Casper situation, I'd like to amend my statement a little bit. I don't KNOW that he stole money, as I don't know all the facts.

But he has it all. And he's disappeared, so the assumption is that SOMETHING has gone horribly wrong, and there's still a responsibility to find out what. Casper could have become ill, who knows? But the circumstances are highly suspicious. My guess is he spent the money, and now doesn't know how to get out of the situation, so he disappeared, but that's just a guess. For all the people who contributed to the auction, the responsible thing is to pursue it and find out.

What I'd like to know is who is proposing we do nothing (after all, that's what's happening), and why? Is there something we're missing here? It's been over a year - it's not going to resolve itself. Is it really not worth pursuing? Maybe it isn't, but I'd like, at least, to hear someone make that case.

Capslock

PS: Even at the hobbyist "club" level, the NASC is a worthwile pursuit. We shouldn't let it die because nobody has the time/money/expertise to take it to the next level.

 

[Ozzy]

You know I really can't believe what I'm reading. The NASC has and always have had one purpose. To make rare plants common to relieve poaching pressures. I had some other conservation goals that I think we could achieve, but that was the purpose.
We started off with the auction two years ago. Casper was a regular and trusted member here. So somebody (I think Bugweed) chose to have him collect the money. Was that a mistake? HELL YES IT WAS A MISTAKE!! But what the hell do you people what us to do about it?? Do you want me to pack up my guns and go hunt him down like a ahyuking animal? The fact is very clear. We messed up. We had a person to collect the money for us and he disappeared. How many ahyuking times can we say that? How many time can we have the same people bring up and complain about the same situation? Life is full of mistakes and road blocks, deal with it. We made a mistake, we were knocked on our asses. We could do like what you want us to do and just sit here and cry about it until all the plants are gone. Or we can get back up, dust our selves off and move on. I can tell you this, we don't have time to make going after Casper our number one priority. With the current building rates, by the time we go through court and all that bullpoop the plants are going to be GONE. Let me say that again, the plants are going to be GONE. Is the purpose getting revenge on Casper or is it to save what little plants we can?
I want to get our money back as much as anybody, I donated to that auction too. He has my money too. I think we are on a right track with Wolfstryker. I think he'll get something done for us. We tried to get Rose to help us with this before but she didn't feel comfortable doing it.
We are going to try, but my number one priority hasn't changed, I still want to conserve some plants. I see rapid development every darn day, I see former cp sites that are now restaurants, golf courses, vacation homes for the rich, resorts, apartments, new homes, highways I can go on and on and on and on. We are losing our sites and plants because rich people want to come here and live in the winter. Then they want to come back for a week during the summer so they can swim. They are coming here and ruining our land just like they ahyuked theirs up in the north. And here we are crying and whining about $1000. When cp's are being bull dozed every day.
This is directed to the people that keep complaining about Casper. If you want to do something then do it. If you want to go after him, then do it. But get the ahyuk out of our way and let us get our act straight so we can save some plants. If you're not going to help us GET THE ahyuk OUT OF OUR WAY!!

Laura said that somebody said that we should be a video of how to destroy an organization. And she's right, the best way to bring down a nonprofit organization is to invite a bunch of know it all whiners to come in and cry about everything that don't go their way. We are proof that works real fast.

Capslock said "it seems that there are some ambitions that are beyond the scope of the entity"

I almost totally agree with you. But to me it seems that there are some people that have ambitions that are the beyond the scope of our entity. Not the board members, but some people that seem to have an unrealistic time lines. ME, Bugweed and PAK are all that is really involved right now. Rose did a great job, but she disappeared too. We can't just sit back and wait for her. We need to get moving and if she ever wants back in, she is welcome.
What we need to do is to get a little organization before we go public again. We need to figure out where we are going with this and to create and achieve some realistic goals. When that is done, then we will start asking for more volunteers. The problem was we had to many volunteers but wasn't ready for them to do anything, so they lost interest. This time I want to be able to put people to work.

One last thing, If you don't have the same priority that we have, which is saving plants, then please step out of our way and let us do it ourselves.

 

[Capslock]

Ozzy,
I'm sure this is frustrating for you, but many of us have NO IDEA what happened or what's been done or what's planned. When I ask questions about it, it may sound like I'm challenging you, but really I just wanted to know what's going on. I heard after the fact that Casper had absconded, and then nothing. Others may have had the benefit of repeated discussions about it, but most of us are just in the dark.

I agree with you about the mission and importance of the NASC. Time's a wastin! But I think the ouside impression is that it shouldn't take much time to at least do the minimum steps in trying to track Casper down. On the possibility, for example, that he had some personal issue and ended up spending some of the money, panicking and disappearing so he didn't have to confront it, maybe a single communication to him can clear it up and let him "re-appear." For example, we could work a deal with him to pay it back in installments. It would be a weight off his back, and anything we got back would be worthwhile. Maybe you're right and nothing more can be done that is worth the time and effort. Maybe the best thing to do is dust ourselves off and move on.

But the other thing is that the Casper incident, much as everyone would like to move on, has cast a pall over the NASC. It reduced people's confidence in participating. You're probably right in that it's not all that much money, and certainly anything involving lawyers or lawsuits is going to be way more cost than it's worth. But there are almost-free things that can be done (which sound like they're happening). And doing SOMETHING, even if it doesn't amount to anything and it's just casual brainstorming about it, would reduce the anxiety about the situation.

In the meantime, you're right, and I'm the last one that would want to get in the way of the important stuff: saving plants. I participated in both auctions, and will continue to in the future. I just wish I could devote more time than that, but business realities intrude. I can help grow, buy, and donate plants, but not much more. But if all goes well, I'd like someday to be able to buy up some land in order to save it from development. Or at least be able to lend some legwork or other assistance. You have my support in whatever way I can lend it. It seems that there's a logjam at the moment. Whatever I can do to help get the things unclogged and working functionally again I'll do, even if it's just shutting up for a while.

Capslock

 

[The Griffin]

I will be interested to hear what Phil finds out from his attorney. Obviously, if any legal action can be taken, the settlement would have to cover the legal fees.
If I remember correctly, both auctions were semi-spontaneous. If it becomes a annual event at the same time every year, people can plan accordingly(propagate, save money to buy) and these auctions will surpass $3000 everytime(especially if Phil continues to donate such excellent plants-the Peter is doing great!).
I was not a member, but even if the funds went to only rescue missions of doomed sites(covering gas and whatever expeditures that are necessary) , than I am happy the money is going to a worthy cause. As has been said, "save the plants."

Cheers,

Joe

 

[wolf9striker]

Quote[/b] (0zzy @ Oct. 14 2005,7:36)]I think we are on a right track with Wolfstryker. I think he'll get something done for us. We tried to get Rose to help us with this before but she didn't feel comfortable doing it.

I guess I was not clear in my previous post. 0zzy, I did not respond to your pm because I felt I was clear in my post. All I am in a position to share with you is that Casper is alive. You want him, you need to put forth the effort of contacting the proper authorities and reporting the money gone. Real simple, get his his full name and last known address, take his birthdate from this website, have PAK give you his phone number, get his email address from the board members and turn it over to the proper authorities along with how much money he had which was around 2k I think I heard. How hard is it. Report the money gone. After you find him pay a lawyer to serve him. I gave all information that I legally can concerning Casper, in that he is alive. All other information about him I cannot legal give out at this juncture. F.O.I.A does not come into effect until a case has been closed. Thus I am in the same position that Rose was in. I apoligize if my first post made it appear as if I would be able to give out more informtion.

Concerning what can be done about Casper a simple call to your State Police by the acting President of the NASC at the time of the '04 auction will get the ball rolling and then it will be in there hands little other effert will be required by any individual.

I for one am going to second Laura & Phils comments that they would like this years money to be donated to The Nature Conservancy or to Botanique. When I participated in the auction (both donating material & bidding) I did so under the pretext that the money was going to be used to SAVE PLANTS. Not for lawyers fees, and certainly not to sit somewhere in absolute limbo.

I belive there is frustration on the part of most people involved and the fact that they people that participated in the auction have been in the dark on what is happening with there money only seems to make it worse.

Wolf

 

[Bugweed]

Ozzy, take a chill pill and get a grip. Nobody is really attacking anyone, but I see real concern for the NASC as a working body. Whatever happens at this point, is up to the members. Myself, I would rather grow than be El Presidente, and I think some things are missing. Mostly (yes, Ozzy, here I go again) information. Keeping people informed has been sadly lacking, even word that nothing is happening at the moment is better than no word at all. Well, I have had enough, NO word at all, thank you. INFORMATION PLEASE!!! Where are we, where are we going, and how do we plan to get there? Start asking questions, and culling through various ideas, and work behind the scenes, as an interested group. We sure aren't doing anything at the moment, so I don't know about you, but I am putting down some location seed, and in a couple of years, they will be ready. I will post what has been planted, and how many, and when they will be ready for homes. Anything else, will be freely given as rhizome cuts come ready. (Get set, Laura!) I am working by myself at the moment (I think), but if anyone else is doing anything, how about sharing it with the rest of us. Might as well DO something until the rest of the legalities are taken care of. Do the website, that would be a great help, and be a place for us all to gather and share seedling info and location plants. NO FIGHTING, OR POINTING FINGERS! Lets roll up the sleeves, and go to work. Forget the President stuff, and let's organize ourselves to do this thing until we are comfortable with dealing with each other and working together. Try to be patient, Laura. We will work at this slowly. Barry told me the ICPS took all this time to become really known and a real operating body. They started in 1975, and they just came into their own over a long period of time, and obtained credibility. So, lets go, if you want to, and we will give it a real shot. Anyone else??

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

And so the dagger hath been sheathed.......

 

[LauraZ5]

Thanks NepenthesGracilis, your comments just got me about 10 more PMs and e-mails that I won't be responding to. Life isn’t exactly a bowl of cherries just yet and people are out there upset about the auctions and feel the people in control now won't go after Casper and will use the money inconsistently with why it was raised. Not much I can or am willing to do about that any longer and people need to speak for themselves and express their concerns.  

Bugs, patience is not one of my virtues. Never has been and never will be and definitely isn't when I see a freight train coming straight at me. Sorry Bugweed but I will not expose myself to liability as a result of the inability or unwillingness of others to act professionally, responsibly, and in accordance with the few established rules that existed. I wanted it to be perfectly clear where I stood through out this three ring circus just in case anyone points a finger at me and says Laura shouldacoulda. Really sorry Bugs, I've lost the faith. My prior experiences with Boards have all been extremely positive. The NASC was the exception. I've never seen so many people going in so many different directions in my entire life. So now, I think I will follow your lead and work by myself. I'll just grow (and kill) by my lonely with my 4 CP buddies and continue to pass extras on to newcomers and schools.

0zzy, I feel real bad about what I'm going to type but I don't think you wanted to get the money back if it meant that your friend Casper might get arrested or else you would have piped up at one of those Board meetings and stated you were interested in my offer to fund a skip search as well as accepting my money to consult with an attorney in Nebraska which is where the NASC was going to be incorporated. I can appreciate that. I have friends who I wouldn't want to see under a microscope.

Unlike 0zzy who faithfully attended meetings, Bugweed couldn't show to any for personal reasons BUT he was up front about why he couldn’t show. PAK showed up for a portion of maybe two Board meetings and even then she wasn't on time or left early. Although she wasn't present either time I offered to shell out my own money to help the NASC move forward by putting this behind them, she sure did make it well known that Casper was her friend when any opportunity presented itself and she is a moderator so people backed off.  I can’t count how many times people commented that they felt intimidated by her.

I have difficulty believing Bugweed is currently involved in much of anything other than growing his plants and plugging along like he always did. If voicing his opinion that Casper should be pursued and turning over his presidency to 0zzy is considered being active, well then I guess my definition of active differs from that of 0zzy’s. Speaking of which, 0zzy should have been officially nominated and the Board should have been called to meet so they could have officially voted him into office, That would have been the proper way to handle this. Everyone likes 0zzy and he would have been a shoe in.

ME, Bugweed and PAK are all that is really involved right now.[/QUOTE}  FACT-That is by choice. Last I read, Noah was asking why nobody showed up at the Board meeting in July that had been scheduled. Before that you and I showed up at quite a few and hung out for quite a while waiting and everyone else was a no show other than Noah. It looks to me as if you and PAK went off on your own. That's perfectly fine too but please don't try to call what ever is going on now a sanctioned NASC activity.  None of the other Board members had any idea you two were meeting and they certainly were not called upon to join you or your assistant. It was crystal clear there was a Board that elected Executive Board members and we know who they are. The instant PAK resigned, the Board should have been called to meet to select a new Secretary. The instant Bugweed resigned, the Board should have been called to meet to elect a new President. The moment you all realized that Copper was gone, the Board should have been called to meet to select a new Vice President. Once those positions were filled, then and only then, should the Executive Board have been meeting and minutes needed to be recorded and shared with the regular Board and then posted in open forum. You two want to go it on your own then please do so but please don't pretend to want to be a not for profit if new rules are being created as you so desire by excluding the handful of people who were interested in contributing. Right now all it looks like is that a handful of people want to have auctions so that they can do their thing and save plants. It doesn't work that way. Read what Rose wrote. Read what Tamlin wrote. Read what Hortman wrote. Read what April wrote. How many people have repeatedly tried to tell everyone to function as a unit and to fully disclose. People all but banged their heads into walls to get you people to work as a team. You can't go out doing your own thing expecting people to fund your dreams. If it is down to you and PAK by choice because you two don't want to include anyone else in any decision making process, this is perfectly fine but let's call a spade a spade, eh?

There are two choices as I see it. Report Casper to the proper authorities.  Close out this year’s auction by listing every person who didn’t pay or send plants. Let go of the money and move forward at a casual club level (find a new name for your club) as suggested by Capslock. This is actually what has been happening anyway and I’d be in favor of this action.

OR

Report Casper to the proper authorities. Close out this year’s auction by listing every person who didn’t pay or send plants. Hire an attorney and incorporate out the gate right now, schedule regular Board meetings followed by an Executive Session (expect people to attend), and buy insurance. Let it be known that nothing happens unless it is approved by the Board. Volunteers, regardless of their capacity, should not be allowed to go off into little groups making decisions that affect others or they should be shown the door. It has to be a team.  If slots for Executive positions can’t be filled, close up shop with dignity and revert to a casual club with a different name.

I still have no desire to be an Executive Board member. I personally have no desire to be anything with the NASC any longer. The NASC doesn't really exist and I am numb. I have never seen so many people thrown in front of a bus before and all the lies and secrets have given me a headache. So many lies and so many secrets.  It isn’t wholesome and I don’t feel good about being associated with the NASC any longer. I, like others, need to feel a team is cohesive and assembled “for a greater good” or there is no point to the exercise.

For me, I will be around.  I still do my thing with kids and I still do my thing with native flora and native fauna and I will continue to volunteer my time with professional organizations. CPs are my pleasure, my escape.  I'll still share my location plants with not for profit organizations that will use them for education or reintroduce them to the wild. Other than that, I'll stick to the 4 CP buddies I have while continuing to buy my plants and I will share any extras with newcomers or schools. It's really more "me" to stick to education anyway as that's where my interests lie. Mind you, education is not my expertise but I do get a kick out of creating programming for kids and working with them.

If there are any more auctions, perhaps people who donate plants could be provided a choice of where they wish the proceeds from their high bidder to go. That will solve a lot of problems as people will have only themselves to blame if the organization they choose has issues.

And I do think the proceeds from this year’s auction need to go to TNC and/or Botanique. This has gone on long enough to be an embarrassment. If I don't hear anything by the end of the month, I'll just total up what the plants I donated sold for and ask Terra to cut checks less the fees for any people who remitted payment via PayPal and ask them to send half to TNC and half to Botanique. I certainly never wanted my money funding a casual club and I certainly never wanted my money funding whatever you want to call the NASC now. It certainly isn't a viable entity in my opinion and hasn’t been for a while and never will be.

Take Care all

 

[philcula]

Quote[/b] (0zzy @ Oct. 14 2005,6:36)] If you're not going to help us GET THE ahyuk OUT OF OUR WAY!!

If you don't have the same priority that we have, which is saving plants, then please step out of our way and let us do it ourselves.

Now that's how we want our President? to act. Once you realikze that you CAN'T save every plant you'll rest much easier. Besides...conducting a resuce involves more than just showing up at every construction site with shovel in hand telling the bulldozer operator to "get the AHYUK out of the way. These plants need to be saved"! No they don't. They don't ALL need to be saved.

Laura: I'm with you on this one. I, as well, feel we should pool our resources/donations towards The Nature Conservancy/Botanique from here on out. The NC has the know how to handle these conservation efforts and Botanique ALREADY has something of a national collection. How many national collections do we need? Are we p'd off because the UK did it publicly before WE did? I'm not. Bully for them.

I spoke with my attorney and did find out some very interesting facts. I won't mention anything public here except that Laura is on the right track. She is a bit more...nay a LOT more educated in this area than anyone else I have heard anything from. You guys should listen to her, or shall we say...should have listened to her.

 

[Jeremiah Harris]

Well after reading this and thinking it over I really don’t know what to say. We need an emergence meeting ASAP.

Here is the list I had of the “Board Members” who out of this is list no longer involved? Do we really need a president at this time?

William Dawnstar
Tony Paroubek
Tamlin
Suzanna Hedderly
Schloat
David
Noah Elhardt
Mark Todd
Laura
Jim Scott Straus
Jeremiah
Jeff Kuncle
J Zak
Dustin Truesdell
Dean Cook
Bugweed
Brooks Garcia
Arthur Yin
Rose Witt

The last meeting was 5/20/2005 right?

I really think relining so heavily I just one or two people is a major mistake unless that person has loads of free time and expertise.

It seems to me we have plenty of people who wanted to help but few to lead.

I think we were on the right track but we did not realize how much Rose was doing for us.

I for one would hate to see the NASC go under after all the work some people have put into it. I’m busy with the CCPS, school, work and various other endeavors but I will do what I can.

So who is still willing to go on with the NASC?

Thanks
-Jeremiah-

 

[Ozzy]

First I want to apologize for the way I worded to post I made last night. I'm not sorry for what I said because I meant every word and it's how I feel. I will apologized for the way I said it though.

Capslock, nothing in my post was directed at you. I have no problem answering questions. The problem I have is the same people keep asking the same question, and to me it seems like the only purpose is to start another negative debate, that makes the NASC look like we are trying to pull something over on everybody. Which is not the case.

Laura, First off, me and Casper were not friends, I barley even knew him. I have never spoken with him in a pm or chat. The only time we have ever spoken were in heated debates on the forum, and we always seemed to be on opposite sides. Only thing I did was state some facts that were told to me. He has our money, and we had reason to believe that he he was dead or in a nursing home.You and April are the ones that came out saying he was a thief, which in my opinion could have been a liability on your part and could have opened up yourself to a lawsuit. I just wanted all the facts before I considered him a thief. I wanted some questions answered before I publicly said negative things about him. What is wrong with that? I never lied, or hid anything. I just wanted to make sure that he really stole our money before I accused him of it.
As far as I know, nobody that was on the board lied or withheld any info. The problem was that you and April publicly kept asking questions that we couldn't answer. I have called Paul (Casper) many times to try and find answers. But he never returned my calls. I did searches on the Internet and came up with nothing. Until about two weeks ago, it wasn't my place to go after him. It was Bugweeds, and coppers. And I had full faith that they were doing what they could. At the time you offered money to find him, it wasn't my place to accept, again I left that up to you, bug and Rose. I know my place in the NASC, and when I was over conservation and fiance, I knew that my place wasn't to be hunting down Casper. Unlike you, I had faith in Bug and Rose and I knew to stay out of something that didn't concern me.

You said we should have called a board meeting. How many have we called and nobody showed up? After months of NOTHING, Bug sent me a PM saying that we should just donate the money to something and give up on the NASC. I sent him a reply saying that I refused to give up and if it was the only way to save it I would take over as president. By the time I took over, there was no need to call a board meeting because 1) nobody attended anyway and 2) There wasn't really a board anymore anyway. So I had a decision to make, let the NASC die, or take over and give it one more shot. I decided to at least give it a shot.

"He who forgets the past is destined to relive it"

First thing I did was to take some time and decide what we did wrong the first time. I came to the conclusion that our biggest mistake was just as Jeremiah

Quote[/b] ]It seems to me we have plenty of people who wanted to help but few to lead.

We had so many people that wanted to do something, but we didn't have our act together yet and so we had nothing for them to do. So they lost interest and stopped coming to the meetings.

To fix that, I decided to get all of our paperwork in order, and have some type of organization before I sent out the word that there were going to be some major changes. I had planned to send an email to everybody that was involved last time and let them know what was happening, but I haven't got to it yet.

There are no behind the scenes secrets, no people going off on their own, and nobody is protecting Casper. Just people who want to do this the right way this time.What got me PO'ed was the same people making false accusations against us over and over. Laura you made statements many times that there were things going on behind the scenes, when there never were. I see the cause of all this stems from your false accusations.
Last time we learned to run but never learned to walk.

Wolfsrtker, I know you can't give me info or advice on what we should do. But can you please send me a pm with the steps we need to take if we wanted to prosecute?

There now all the "secrets" are all out in the open. There is nothing more that I think we can say. I'll be happy to answer any question, if I can. Although I refuse to make statements to anymore false accusations, or about Casper. I have told everything I know, and I don't have time to keep going over the same thing.

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

Quote[/b] (LauraZ5 @ Oct. 15 2005,12:30)]Thanks NepenthesGracilis, your comments just got me about 10 more PMs and e-mails that I won't be responding to.

Glad to have helped! Call me anytime.

Seriously, some people need to get a grip on this. IT ISN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL. Big deal, some guy stole the money and ran....we should have entrusted someone like Tony, or Phil who are business OWNERS to handle the money if they would have had the time/willingness to do it. Or better yet, because you know it all, we should have entrusted you.

And on another side note, why do you even care about the Sarracenia "conservancy"? You hardly grow any pitcherplants from what you've todl me in the past...big deal a few bucks were stolen from you from some ransack runof the mill people. That can happen in real life. This argument is pointless and will not get any better, so thats my little tidbit. I have a life to live and I'm not bickering over $20 or so "stolen" from me.

 

[JBL]

"we should have entrusted someone like Tony, or Phil who are business OWNERS to handle the money if they would have had the time/willingness to do it."

Good point NepG.  It seems that was done this year with the funds going to Phil where I believe they will be safe--safe that is except for the specter of the Tax Man that was raised in these posts.

"...big deal a few bucks were stolen from you from some ransack runof the mill people. That can happen in real life. This argument is pointless and will not get any better, so thats my little tidbit. I have a life to live and I'm not bickering over $20 or so "stolen" from me."

Once again, NepG, I agree, and I DID particiapte in the 2004 auction.  It seems that the ones raising the biggest stink did not particiapte in, and were not affected by the auction.  I wonder why that is?  Maybe they're coming to my rescue!

 

[Bugweed]

Well, Ozzy, if yer gonna, SEEK AND DESTROY the Casper. I had Casper as lead on the word of a friend who thought Casper solid as a rock. Looks like he was wrong. That aside, I am still going to grow and pass around location plants. Anyone else who wishes to continue to grouse about things you cannot change, continue on.
Get Casper
Organize--SLOWLY--- the NASC.
Growers check in with Bugweed for seed information.
Start a grassroots growing program.
Pass plants freely between ourselves.
Species and Natural hybrids only.
Do the best you can.
THERE! Guidelines. Ozzy, relax. You have to be professional to do this, and you do not respond in the manner you did. With anyone. Otherwise, the organization will crumble beneath your feet. You need to find a more diplomatic way of dealing with situations. Above all, be fair, open, and honest. We all slip sometime, but don't slip all the time. Be nice.
Laura, too bad you have no patience. You won't be too successful with CP if you're not! If you are not staying on, then Good bye, but think about it first. Try not to come across like the Adjutant General, and take things one or two at a time while the organization that isn't there, takes some shape. Otherwise, your counsel is out of place if you ain't stayin'! We need those who know, but don't mow us down trying to do too much faster than it can be handled. No put down here, Laura. I am trying to get you to help us, one step at a time, slowly evlove. We are new at this, and all of us have lives to live, and sometimes, it really gets in the way. The lives, that is. I agree with Phil in the Botanique/ Nature Conservacy thing. Barry asked me to ask Rob to help out and be a part of, but I have not heard back from Rob at all. Rob's collection is staggering! Anyway, I am growing. Anyone want to help?? Laura?? Ozzy?? Capslock?? PAK?? William?? Noah?? Forbes?? Colieo?? NepG?? JBL? Ron Lane??

 

[JBL]

You know I'll continue to help Bugs!  Let's grow on (in plants, in spirit and in cooperation).  Rock on!  I still have some S. purpurea seed WITH location data left up for grabs in the trading forum.  Let's do as Bug suggests and be doers, not just sayers and/or slayers.  Actions speak louder than words, and I know that we can spread more good by doing a little SHARING and CARING right now.

P.S. I'll soon have a fair amount of 'Hurricane White' seed, so look for that post. I believe Laura informed me that these will not all be true white, some (maybe 25% ?) will revert to typical S. leucophylla color.

 

[Jeremiah Harris]

I’m just throwing out some ideas out to get it moving. I take no offence to anyone who thinks differently I’m just trying to get the ball rolling. Please post your ideas as well.

I think a web site should be a main priority right now. I know a few people said they would build the site if we had the web space we now have the space www.NASarracenia.org right so let’s see who would be willing to build it. If they need any Sarr’s photo I know I have a few they could use. We have about 3k, and for the money a web site would be very effective use of it even if we have to pay someone a small fee to set it up. Once we have the basic site up and running I know a few people who would be very interest at the Denver Botanical Gardens and I will talk with them.

How about a new email list? I could set that up if I can get every ones email.

I’m looking in to getting A 501 (c ) (3). A local orchid club is helping me out since I will be doing it for the CCPS I will let you know what it involves when I figure it out.

I for one would hate to see the ’05 action money just go to someone else.

Thanks
-Jeremiah-