Vanila

[Starman]

Thats because N.hamata was new and people didnt realise it didnt grow at that extreme of an environment, but we do know that now. Vanilla has been around for a lot longer and to this day not one person has managed to achive what youre hoping to achieve.


Trust me, people have let it climb, they have tried to get it big, they have tried this, they have tried that, theyve tried loads of thigns but it just doesnt work. Heck, theres someone on the orchid forum who let theirs climb on the wall, but they arnt ever expecting flowers, they just say its fun to see it climb.

But the point is, no one has yet managed ot buy a Vanilla, put the pot on a windowsill and manage to get it huge and flower.

Its totally not true that few people havnt tried it, many have in the USA and Europe but no one has managed to accomplish it.

All I can say to you is good luck, but I am 100% adamant you wont be able to flower it. But good luck anyway.

 

[herenorthere]

I just gotta chime in on this but don't know what side to join.  So I'll join both.

When a friend of my wife returned from a trip to Florida with a little potted Vanilla and asked what to do with it, I told her to enjoy it as a foliage plant and said I'd give her another orchid if she wanted something that would bloom.

On the other hand, most if not all of my orchids have to deal with seriously deficient growing conditions in one way or another.  Some are extremely sensitive - draculas and many masdies come to mind - but others deal with it.  So many don't grow as big as quickly as they should and maybe flower spikes are smaller or appear less frequently.  Or never.  I like them anyway.

But when people are looking to get a first orchid, I'll always try to steer them to those that are good prospects for their conditions.  And never, ever have I recommended it be a Vanilla.

 

[rattler]

true Bruce, i wouldnt call it a "beginners orchid" as in a plant your looking to bloom but ive seen nothing so far that shows that its a difficult plant to grow if you just wish to have one. for a true beginers orchid i like the Oncidium hybrids, ive got one that is literally the most abused plant in my house and it still blooms several times a year. actually go shop Home Depot and Lowes if yah want a beginers orchid to bloom. most of what they sell are hybrids and are remarkably easy to grow and bloom.

 

[superimposedhope]

Theres a place out in Colorado that has a Vanilla orchid blooming. I don't know what species it is but it's a Vanilla orchid and it blooms all the time. I have looked at it several times and smelled the blooms and it is sickening after a while with one good sized one and a small area. It's in a kinda greenhouse/large sunroom area. I bet Jeremiah has seen it, I know he frequents the place often.
I don't really know much about orchids but I think in general almost any plant can be adapted to live in a house given some degree of special care. I have an Arachnis orchid I think it's called, I don't really do anything for it; it just grows in a huge pot of Epiphyllum. It gets full sun. Anyway I'd be inclined to say whether the "experts" say it can be done is irrelevant, alot is done that the "experts" say NO! I bet it can be done if given the determination and time.
Starman, I'm sure he knows that sometimes you fail when growing exotic plants. Let him try it without being told he can't. If it don't happen he'll figure it out and without any negative comments.

Joe

 

[Starman]

Quote[/b] (superimposedhope @ Sep. 17 2005,12:33)]Theres a place out in Colorado that has a Vanilla orchid blooming. I don't know what species it is but it's a Vanilla orchid and it blooms all the time. I have looked at it several times and smelled the blooms and it is sickening after a while with one good sized one and a small area. It's in a kinda greenhouse/large sunroom area. I bet Jeremiah has seen it, I know he frequents the place often.
I don't really know much about orchids but I think in general almost any plant can be adapted to live in a house given some degree of special care. I have an Arachnis orchid I think it's called, I don't really do anything for it; it just grows in a huge pot of Epiphyllum. It gets full sun. Anyway I'd be inclined to say whether the "experts" say it can be done is irrelevant, alot is done that the "experts" say NO! I bet it can be done if given the determination and time.
Starman, I'm sure he knows that sometimes you fail when growing exotic plants. Let him try it without being told he can't. If it don't happen he'll figure it out and without any negative comments.

Joe

exactly, its not on a proper windowsill is it?

You obviously dont understand when people(and not just experts, newbies and higher level growers too) have tried to do what youre trying to do and it failed. If it does flower for any of you, it would be the very first case in the world.
You also dont seemt o understand some people have tried again and again and have tried all sorts of different scenarios to make them flower and nothing worked. I doubt you could try anything that hasnt been tried before to make them flower.

Well I used to think the same as you, but not anymore. Why?
1) I bought a Heliamphora and for over a year it faield ot adapt to indoors, its now been moved to the greenhouse
2)When I thought the same as you I posted it and straight away the likes of Tony Paroubek and nepenthes gracillis instanly jumped on me and said that Im wrong etc.
3) I bought another few sensitive plants to try to prove them wrong.......they died

So I dont believe in that theory anymore and I wont believe in it ever again.

You seem to enjoy attacking the experts, but Im telling you now: You CANT know more then someone whose been growing for over 30 years.
So I find it pretty laughable that you think you can prove people wrong which have that much experience.

 

[endparenthesis]

Dudes... it's a flower...

Learning from a doomed experiment isn't failure. That's how experts became experts... through long histories of "failure".

 

[rattler]

Dino, just cause you cant grow sensitive plants on a window sill desnt mean no one can. ive grown a Heli in open topped 10 gal tank which should give it approximatly the same relitive humidity as you have. my problem with them is getting them enough light. heck lots of ppl on this site cant grow Helis or nepenthes on windowsills but that doesnt mean none of us can.

BTW does this count? it is from a grower in Illinois, which anyone from here in the states can tell you isnt ideal for growing tropical orchids, they can and do see several feet of snow every winter. if they can do it outside i should be able to do it inside

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, I have about 8 or so different species of Vanilla Orchids so far. I don't know why but they have always facinated me. I think I just like them because they are vining plants. But as far as finally having one flower for me.....It was one of my Pompona's...I have it outside on my patio sitting in the shade. It is able to get rained on where I have it. I bought it as a cutting about a year ago and it was only about 12 inches in length. Right now it is probably 18 inches in length, so it is really sort of a slow grower. I use potting soil (any kind) and then I add different things to it to make it a bit looser. Sometimes all I add is a little extra perlite. Sometimes I add some orchid mix to it. And sometimes, I have grown them with nothing but regular soil mix that you buy anywhere. I try to keep the soil mix damp but not soggy otherwise you will rot the part down in the soil. They are easy to grow. I grow mine in the house under flourescent lights. I have some that climb the walls in the basement also..
I was really excited to see a flower finally. I took a horrible blurry picture but the flower was basically gone by then. Only lasted a day.

granted she got heres to flower at 18 inches but i have a theory on that. in all the comercial Vanilla cultivation websites i have visited they all say the same thing, the thickness of the vine is how they can tell when a Vanilla is going to bloom not length, so if she got ahold of a tip cutting from a very mature plant with thick enough vines i think it explains the blooming on a short vine.

 

[herenorthere]

Never forget that experts almost always have ideal growing conditions for whatever it is they're experts about.  They either live in the environment their plants prefer or provide a greenhouse or some other controlled environment for them.  So, unless you do too, don't blindly trust people who tell you what you can and cannot grow or how to grow something.

The person who knows the most about growing things in the conditions I provide is me.  That said, I've learned a lot of what I know from experts in forums and, less frequently, in books.  But I have to run that advice through the filter of my own experience.

 

[Starman]

Quote[/b] (herenorthere @ Sep. 17 2005,2:07)]Never forget that experts almost always have ideal growing conditions for whatever it is they're experts about.  They either live in the environment their plants prefer or provide a greenhouse or some other controlled environment for them.  So, unless you do too, don't blindly trust people who tell you what you can and cannot grow or how to grow something.

The person who knows the most about growing things in the conditions I provide is me.  That said, I've learned a lot of what I know from experts in forums and, less frequently, in books.  But I have to run that advice through the filter of my own experience.

That is so not true. There are plenty of experts all around the world, not just in 'ideal' climates.

Well hang on a second........Tamlin Dawnstar is an expert isnt he? Would you call him wrong and stupid and tell him you dont listen to experts and stuff?
And what about Tony Parubek? Hes an expert too isnt he?

 

[rattler]

i dont think Tony would refer to himself as an expert, serious grower sure but i doubt he refers to himself as an expert. i know Tamlin quite well and i know he wouldnt consider himself an expert either. i can say with 100% certanty that he doesnt refer to himself as such. both Tony and William are(was in Williams case) serious growers. both will tell you how they grow(grew) their plants and their observations but neither has ever told me that something wont work within reason. William was a big one on experimenting and fully understands the rule "not everything works for everyone". you should probably know the ppl better before dragging their names into the conversation.

 

[Starman]

Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ Sep. 17 2005,5:04)]i dont think Tony would refer to himself as an expert, serious grower sure but i doubt he refers to himself as an expert. i know Tamlin quite well and i know he wouldnt consider himself an expert either. i can say with 100% certanty that he doesnt refer to himself as such. both Tony and William are(was in Williams case) serious growers. both will tell you how they grow(grew) their plants and their observations but neither has ever told me that something wont work within reason. William was a big one on experimenting and fully understands the rule "not everything works for everyone". you should probably know the ppl better before dragging their names into the conversation.

Well for your information a lot of people consider them both experts, so do I in fact.

And there is a HUGE reason why Vanilla fail indoors in temperate regions, they MUST have warm nights ALL year round and they MUST have room to spread. Without this Vanillas sulk and do poorly.And that HAS been proven.

 

[rattler]

the point is that they do not consider themselves experts.

as to Vanillas "must have" warm nights. i can say now this is a bunch of bull. mine was growing like a weed with 85 degree days and 55 degree nights. infact the only reason its sulking now is i moved it from 90% humidity to 35% humidity abruptly but both are sending out new growth as we speak. i have the plants in my posesion and have had planifolia for over a year, half of which in very rough conditions. can you say the same? you keep speaking of what experts have told you but where is your own personal experince? ive been growing plants for longer than you have been on this earth. does that make me an expert? NO do i consider myself an expert? NO but what i do have is years of personal experiance growing plants in the conditions i have. i am tired of arguing about this with you when not once have you added anything but what some experts have told you. if someone else wants to discuss their personal experiances with this Genus im game but im done responding to you Dino

 

[Starman]

Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ Sep. 17 2005,5:29)]the point is that they do not consider themselves experts.

as to Vanillas "must have" warm nights. i can say now this is a bunch of bull. mine was growing like a weed with 85 degree days and 55 degree nights. infact the only reason its sulking now is i moved it from 90% humidity to 35% humidity abruptly but both are sending out new growth as we speak. i have the plants in my posesion and have had planifolia for over a year, half of which in very rough conditions. can you say the same? you keep speaking of what experts have told you but where is your own personal experince? ive been growing plants for longer than you have been on this earth. does that make me an expert? NO do i consider myself an expert? NO but what i do have is years of personal experiance growing plants in the conditions i have. i am tired of arguing about this with you when not once have you added anything but what some experts have told you. if someone else wants to discuss their personal experiances with this Genus im game but im done responding to you Dino

yes, I can say the same because if they are not satisfied they wont flower. And they dont sound satisfied in your conditions, you even admitted they sulk.

And its not just 'what some experts' have told me, like Ive stated before: Newbies AND serious growers AND experts agree said the same.

You really have no idea how outnumbered you are in this argument.

 

[endparenthesis]

A real expert would probably be more interested in what he or she doesn't know about a plant than what he or she does know. That's why they never feel like experts... the things they don't know are always far more numerous.

You can also see how they got to the place they are now... by having undying curiosity about what results another person might be able to culture no matter how unlikely. People who think they already have all the answers aren't very curious, which isn't a great place to be.

 

[Starman]

Quote[/b] (endparenthesis @ Sep. 17 2005,5:55)]A real expert would probably be more interested in what he or she doesn't know about a plant than what he or she does know. That's why they never feel like experts... the things they don't know are always far more numerous.

You can also see how they got to the place they are now... by having undying curiosity about what results another person might be able to culture no matter how unlikely. People who think they already have all the answers aren't very curious, which isn't a great place to be.

Who said I think I have all the anwsers? Who said experts think they have all the anwsers? Well let me tell you this: ALL genuine experts who I meet always tell me that no one can really know it all and have all the anwsers.
I believe that too, and Il never stop being curious.

However, so much research and growth attemps have been tried to get it to grow AND bloom in the house its unbelivable.
You wouldnt believe how frequently that topic comes up
And yet, theres a few people here who think that can go against hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have tried to grow AND flower Vanilla indoors and failed.

And dotn respond and say: But my Vanilla grows indoors!!
But does it flower happily EVERY day like mad like a good greenhouse grown plant does? I dont think so
A truly happy Vanilla would make a few blooms every morning

 

[Juan-Carlos]

I find vanila extreamly easy to grow.. just my personal experience.  I also grew my varaigated vanilla indoors for a couple months and it did great even gew some new leaves.  I'm sure they would flower indoors... theres really not much to it.  But you must let it grow, vanilla ussually flowers once the vine has gotten long enough(8-12') that it loops back down... the plant flowers in the part that loops down.  I've noticed this to be true with wild vanila that I have personally seen in fakahatchee strand in Florida.


You guys are getting all fired up for no reason, realax guys this is a fourm disscussion not a flame war.  there is no right answer... it might not be the easyest plant to bloom indoors, but then again there are tons of other rchids that are much harder to bloom and grow.

so c'mon guys relax and lets be civil, or at least cool about it!

Thanks,

-Jc

 

[superimposedhope]

Quote[/b] (Starman @ Sep. 17 2005,6:03)]Well I used to think the same as you, but not anymore. Why?
1) I bought a Heliamphora and for over a year it faield ot adapt to  indoors, its now been moved to the greenhouse
2)When I thought the same as you I posted it and straight away the likes of Tony Paroubek and nepenthes gracillis instanly jumped on me and said that Im wrong etc.
3) I bought another few sensitive plants to try to prove them wrong.......they died

So I dont believe in that theory anymore and I wont believe in it ever again.

I may be wrong here but, wasn't it you that wasn't allowed to buy terrariums? If thats the case then you can't really say you know about growing indoors because a terrarium/chamber of some sort is essential to growing alot of exotics in a house.

I only have a few orchids BUT I do know that I can make things live on a chunk of wood hanging in the air with desert dryness in the winter and averaging 40-80% humidity in the Summer. Fluctuations in temp between 5-15deg.F. in a few minutes. The point is that YOU don't really know, you know what you've been told BY OTHERS. You've expressed someone elses opinion and Rattler is telling you HIS opinion. If the concensus among the Orchid community is that it is unlikely then fine but until you actually try it you don't have much ground to stand on; and even if you do try it and fail then fine again. You live in another country which is deffinately a factor in growing anything.
Are you trying discourage someone from "testing the water"? It is these testers which pave the way for new "facts" which were previously thought to be incorrect. I don't think anyone said you're wrong, I think what has been said is that you don't actually know if you're right. You know what you've been told and you've done an excellent job of repeating it. (I am sure the "experts" will be happy with you)
Perhaps some of these experts can state their own opinions but it will still just be an opinion.

If anyone tries and fails then they will be part of a long line of people who tried and failed, and what will you gain if they don't try and what will you have lost if they do try?

Joe

 

[Juan-Carlos]

Quote[/b] ]But does it flower happily EVERY day like mad like a good greenhouse grown plant does? I dont think so
A truly happy Vanilla would make a few blooms every morning

I live in Florida, sorry but vanila does not flower like mad all year around.. its actually quite rare to see blooms inthe wild... I am not far from a presrve where vanila grows everywhere, to the point where its boreing and kind of annoying I must admit lol! I frequent the preserve regularly to find amongst ther things other orchid species, and a native bromeliad (guzmania) we have in Florida (wich is gorgeouse growing in the wild a real site!)

I have seen vanila in bloom once. you do see some seedpods here and there but finding them is rare, you always find the seed pods on the vines that loop down. Ha ha and yes I have been tempted to snag a cutting since it is EVERYWHERE, but I have not, it is protected and it is a preserve.

Not picking sides here or anything just stateing my personal experience with this plant.

soo...

 

[rattler]

JC, do you have any pics of guzmania or Vanilla in the wild? i would love to see them if you do.

 

[herenorthere]

Starman, realize no one's saying a Vanilla will grow as well on a Montana windowsill as it will in its home territory or even in a Montana greenhouse.  In fact, these people seem to accept that their Vanilla plants might never be anything but a viney foliage plant.  I'm quite confident every single orchid and CP I own would do better somewhere else.  Such as in a greenhouse.  But I don't have one and am not getting one and they'll have to deal with it.  And they do.

But I do stand by my statement that "experts [and serious growers] almost always have have ideal growing conditions for whatever it is they're experts [or serious] about.  They either live in the environment their plants prefer or provide a greenhouse or some other controlled environment for them."