Applying orthene/acephate

[seedjar]

So some sort of chewing insect is circulating among my Sarras and other outdoor plants. I got a bottle of Ortho Systemic Insect Killer (active ingredient Orthene, aka acephate) but I'm a little confused. The bottle says to apply it to all surfaces of the affected plants, which won't be easy for some of my plants, such as my S. purpurea colony. I thought that systemic insecticides were absorbed by the plant - can't I just apply it to exposed surfaces, so that whatever nibbles on the plants will get poisoned? Will it not work if I don't get everything?
Also, what kind of handling procedures do you folks use with this stuff? I was figuring on wearing long clothes, gloves and a bandana and then throwing them all in a hot wash when I'm done. Is this adequate? Will washing them in my washing machine create a contamination risk? I've heard nasty things about insecticides and I don't want to take chances.
Thanks guys,
~Joe

 

[glider14]

well i dont think you need to be that through on spraying the surfaces. latex gloves would work fine as my dad is a landscaper/plant grower person and he isnt even allowed to spray plants without LATEX gloves. as long as you dont get it on you, you should be ok with the washing stuff. the gloves you can just dispose of. one thing to make sure says my dad is to only spray them when there is litle to no wind. that way you can prevent it getting on yourself or even you or your neighbors inhaleing it.
glider

 

[seedjar]

Well, I live on the top floor of a three-story apartment building situated on one of the highest hills in town, so there's going to be wind no matter what I do. I'll probably spray inside my greenhouse. I was thinking of just reaching in with the sprayer and not actually going inside myself, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get a good coat on all the plants that way... Hopefully there will be a still, rainy day soon. This is so stressful! Thanks for the tips, though.
~Joe

PS - Also, I'm wondering about handling the plants... Many of my Sarras and VFTs are badly in need of repotting. Will acephate eat away at the new plastic pots? Will handling treated plants be harmful? Bottom line... should I repot before treating my plants, or after?

 

[glider14]

if your worried about that then i would repot them before.i have no clue on the eating plastic thing....after a while they should be ok but the trick my dad uses is that he LIGHTLY smells them...if he smells even the slightest trace its still not ok. but that is with bare hands i think latex gloves would be ok though

 

[Bugweed]

O Seedy One! Orthene will do nothing against chewing insects. Orthene is made for suckers, not chewers. Aphids, whitefly, thrips, scale, and mealybugs will die in droves with orthene. Chewing critters will appreciate the "salad dressing" and keep on chewing. Spray lightly with malathion,or liquid sevin, and the chewers will chew themselves to death.

 

[vft guy in SJ]

For the record, Orthene, aside from smelling exceptionally foul, is fairly benign to anything except the above mentioned "suckers". I wouldnt worry about the pots, I dont wear gloves or even long clothes when I spray it. Just a good wash of the hands after and all is good to go.

 

[seedjar]

Thanks for the tip Bugsy. I'm not sure what exactly is at my plants, just that they have chew marks reminiscent of caterpillars and fine, sticky white filaments near the chews. Last year I got a 'Leah Wilkerson' clone from Brooks that had some Xyra moth damage, but he had treated it and trimmed off all but one pitcher to make sure that no more than one egg would be included. I also received a few plants in trade that had scale (but had been treated with acephate,) and some of my cacti have something that looks like scale but fuzzier, so I wanted to treat them to just as a precaution. I'm pretty confused, though, because none of my Sarras were showing any symptoms until a few weeks ago. Nothing has been introduced into my outdoor collection for a month or two except for some perfectly healthy plants that came from Sarracenia NW, whom I trust deeply. Should I try both acephate and malathion? I have some malathion, but I'm nervous about using it because it has other stuff in it - it's Ortho's Malathion Plus variety and it has petroleum distillate in it (plus 50% "other ingredients," thanks for the warning Ortho,) which I understand is bad for most CPs. Thanks for the help guys - these pest outbreaks almost make me want to get rid of my plants. Every day that I don't treat them I feel more and more guilty.
~Joe

 

[Bugweed]

Guilty? What! You care!?!?!?!? Good! Do it. LIGHTLY spray with this stuff and do it in shade. Sunlight mixed with this stuff could burn the leaves. Spray, VERY FINE mist, leaves only. Some will drip into the soil I'm sure, but it hasn't killed any of my sarrs yet.

 

[seedjar]

Shade, eh? I don't have a lot of shade on my porch but I guess I could keep them under my benches for a few days. Do you think that treating them as I repot (unpot, spray the leaves, rinse the roots and then pot up) would help? Or would that just increase the risk of root poisoning?
~Joe

PS - And what do you think about doing both acephate and malathion? If I want to treat my cacti for scale I'll have to move them outside for a while, so I figure I should treat the rest of the plants they'll be around preemptively to avoid cross-contamination.

 

[Bugweed]

Spray the leaves, wash the rhizome, repot, and stand back and wait for spring.

 

[seedjar]

OK, you've been a big help Bugs, and I'm sorry if I'm being a pest, but what about the acephate? I would just go with the malathion and leave it at that, except I keep finding things that look vaguely like scale on the above mentioned trade plants that formerly had scale. I'm confused, though; the little whitish things on the leaves fall off readily when poked, which I'm told is a sign that they're dead, but keep reappearing, which suggests to me that they're very much alive. This is such a headache! While I'm still asking questions, do you think that being in a greenhouse with 4 mil semi-translucent plastic sheeting will provide enough shade for the malation-treated plants?
Thanks again Bugs, you're a lifesaver.
~Joe

 

[glider14]

Quote[/b] ]For the record, Orthene, aside from smelling exceptionally foul, is fairly benign to anything except the above mentioned "suckers".

whatchu talking bout VFT?

 

[Bugweed]

Deal with the chewers first, Joe. Then the orthene for the wooly aphids.

 

[vft guy in SJ]

Quote[/b] (glider14 @ Jan. 26 2006,6:32)]

Quote[/b] ]For the record, Orthene, aside from smelling exceptionally foul, is fairly benign to anything except the above mentioned "suckers".

whatchu talking bout VFT?

I have used Orthene for a couple years now. Its never killed or injured a single plant, pet, or person that I am aware of. Its never damaged any pots or water trays. Near as I can tell the only thing this stuff hurts is the bad buggies I got it for in the first place.

EDIT: and if you are refering to the "smelling exceptionally foul" comment.. SMELL the stuff.. it could scare the flys off a garbage pit...

 

[Outsiders71]

Seedjar:

Like someone else mentioned in this thread, Ortho systemic insect killer is pretty harmless. The only dangers it possess to you is its nasty smell and will probably make you really sick if you drank it.

I've actually just recently used it on my plants, had some kind of bug infestation inside my grow chamber. I'm guessing there were eggs laid in the pots from my outdoor CP's.

Anyways you just mix the stuff as the directions say to do so. I mixed mine in a gallon of distilled water, then just marked the gallon as insecticide for future usage. Then all I have to do is shake it up and put it in the sprayer.

As for application, I just sprayed the foilage and the surface. Your plants will take in the ortho through the foilage, and will be protected for a few weeks. I spray the surface as well because the stuff kills the bugs on contact and will kill the eggs. I have never had any ill effects to my CP's, only to the dead bugs. Happy sprayin!

 

[seedjar]

Well, you guys can say what you will about Orthene, but my roommate's father was a horticulturalist in the 70s/80s - before there were laws about handling procedures and warning labels for agrochemicals - and he's got all sorts of scary chronic illnesses from exposure to this kind of stuff. I'm sick all the time as it is - I don't need some bug spray giving me seizures, diarrhea and acute respiratory distress (all symptoms of acephate poisoning.) And it's particularly disruptive to the developmental process; puberty has been bad enough for me already. So, yeah, I appreciate your reassurances but I'd rather not take too many chances.
~Joe

 

[Outsiders71]

Quote[/b] (seedjar @ Jan. 27 2006,12:48)]Well, you guys can say what you will about Orthene, but my roommate's father was a horticulturalist in the 70s/80s - before there were laws about handling procedures and warning labels for agrochemicals - and he's got all sorts of scary chronic illnesses from exposure to this kind of stuff. I'm sick all the time as it is - I don't need some bug spray giving me seizures, diarrhea and acute respiratory distress (all symptoms of acephate poisoning.) And it's particularly disruptive to the developmental process; puberty has been bad enough for me already. So, yeah, I appreciate your reassurances but I'd rather not take too many chances.
~Joe

Just remember the amount you are using is not that lethal and watered down. The only way you could really poison yourself would be to either swallow it or directly and purposefully inhale the spray/mist.

 

[seedjar]

Oh, I know, but when you have sorry luck like mine you learn to be a little paranoid.
~Joe

 

[Woodnative]

I never had a problem with Orthene on Sarracenias.  It is a good product and will poison chewers also.  Wear gloves, spray in the early morning or evening (when the sun is not direct).  Aim the spray bottle at the plants from different directions to get good coverage.  Wear gloves and try not to breath too much spray or get it on your skin (but if you do get some on, don't panic, it probably won't do anything bad, just good to take precaution and be safe).  I don't think it matters if you repot now or later, just spray.

 

[Trent]

We never use the liquid form of orthene. Get the granules and dissolve them in water: one tablespoon to 2 gallons will 'take care' of mealy bug, scale, aphids, thrips and whitefly. I use it as a pot drench. It is systemic so the plant will most efficiently absorb thru the roots. We also have noted that if you use too strong of a dose, Sarracenia will produce deformed traps for about a month. I do not recommend mixing insecticides. Use seperate treatments for the chewers and the suckers. As Bugweed said, the chewers will inflict the most damage quickest, so get rid of them with the Sevin. We use Talstar One, 1 ounce of the concentrate to a gallon of water. Talstar is very effective against all the baddies, but its expensive. Also, it's toxicity is low for reptiles, birds and mammals. It will kill fish and frogs however. Talstar will also require repeat treatments because it's so environmentally friendly- it washes away after a little while. We use it because it is recommended to us by the Florida Dept. of Agriculture for the control of ants, particularly fire ants(fire ants are not allowed on our property). Also, Talstar does not stink-it has a slight chemical smell-not like the orthene that smells like a dead rat.
I wear gloves when handling the concentrates, but they are fairly safe once diluted.
Hope this has been helpful.
Good growing!