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My First Dormancy Attempt

Well, I do believe I fouled up my first attempt at giving my plants a winter dormancy. I put two VFT's into the fridge in baggies, and my small sarracenia and another VFT into a cupboard in my cold garage. I figured that would emulate being a fridge, because the garage is cold, and it would be as dark as a fridge in there. One of the fridge VFTs and the other cupboard VFT succumbed to mold I guess, and the rhizome was mush.

Part of where I screwed up was the fact that I cut off all growth on the sarrs before stuffing them in the cupboard, because I thought it was all pretty much dead, and I wanted to avoid mold. When I got them out and potted them up last night, there was no green on any of them, but the rhizomes seemed hard and woody, so I guess they could still be alive. The roots were also woody-textured.

I put them in pots, and right now I'm hoping for the best. Is there a possibility that they could grow back from the rhizome?

 
doesn't look very promising to me but tou never know, always worth a try, this dormancy I put mine under lights and they did just fine, theyre even coming out of dormancy with no problems whatsoever, If you have the oppurtunity you shoudl try it next year, seems to be very effective
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Kirkscoastalcarnivores @ Feb. 22 2006,7:00)]this dormancy I put mine under lights and they did just fine, theyre even coming out of dormancy with no problems whatsoever, If you have the oppurtunity you shoudl try it next year, seems to be very effective
So you leave them outside until they go into dormancy due to the weather, and then you bring them inside and just keep them under lights? Do you have to reduce the temperature in the room that you keep them in?

I was thinking for my next attempt, I'm just going to take the plant out of the pot and stick it in the fridge in a bag with peat.

I'm not that bummed out though, because I got them last year at Home Depot for $1.50 or so each.
 
They could come back from the rhizome, as far as I know. New growth points should be able to develope. Let 'em sit, give them light, and as long as things don't go mushy, there's hope! Good luck!
 
actually what i did is just take them in around thanksgiving or maybe a little before regardelss of how they were growing and put them under lights, no special temperature modifications needed to be added although i should add my window has no insulation of any kind so it gets pretty cold in my room, around 45 degrees coldest
 
Oh dear..those pics dont look too promising.
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my Sarr rhizomes always have some green still on them when they come out of the fridge..

how wet did you keep them?
the only thing I can think of that could go wrong is that they were kept too wet..
I always overwinter my sarrs in their pots..cut away all the pitchers, let the pots dry out somewhat, then bag them up and put them in the fridge..
I had no deaths this year..out of around 30 sarrs.

since all 4 are possibly dead, it must be due to some condition they all had in common..im betting too wet.

but! dont give up yet!
maybe there is some life in those rhizomes yet..keep them going for a few months, see what happens!

Scot
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (scottychaos @ Feb. 22 2006,8:03)]maybe there is some life in those rhizomes yet..keep them going for a few months, see what happens!
Months?
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I think I'd just rather dump them and order some new ones to replace them. I think it'd be a better use of the pots. I mean, I only had them for one sub-par Home Depot growing season, so I'm not attatched to them or anything.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Kirkscoastalcarnivores @ Feb. 22 2006,8:02)]although i should add my window has no insulation of any kind so it gets pretty cold in my room, around 45 degrees coldest
Do you like, wear a coat in your room? That's cold!
smile_k_ani_32.gif
 
Just because you are not attached to them, Mannex, doesn't mean you do not give it a chance. Seems a little cold to me. I think, personally, they are toast, but Scotty has a point, they might fool us all. Months is short compared to forever.
I grow mine outdoors, and they are kept submerged 24/7. They love it. Even in the winter, they are under ice cold water. They come back year after year, bigger and healthier all the time. So, fridge dormancy, too wet, is an absolute no-no. You might try talking to Joe (JBL). He is in Pennsylvania, and maybe could give you tips on winter keeping of your plants.
 
  • #10
I doubt the problem was that 45 degrees is too cold.
45 degrees should be fine.
I keep mine in a regular fridge all winter..35-40 degrees.
they do fine.

I keep hearing about the submerged idea!
I might try that for winter dormancy.
I know Tamlin has had success with that method too.
hmmmm..

the only drawback to that method is you have to repot every spring.
can be a big job if you have a lot of plants.
By keeping my plants in pots all winter, I only repot every 3 years or so..

Scot
 
  • #11
Not me, Scotty. Some of these have been in the same base for 5 years. 2 more, and I will repot, and make divisions. I grow in Rubbermaid plastic dishpans, and have kept them under water for as long as I can remember. Many folks dry theirs down for winter, and let dormancy do its thing. Many also suffer losses during this time. I think fungus' like the damp conditions, and have a merry time destroying the rhizomes during the sleeping season.
I use tannic acid in the spring, and white vinegar to increase soil acid, and simply keep them submerged. They respond VERY well to this treatment. I have a whole lot of buds coming up right now, and they are going to be subjected to the tannic acid/vinegar treatment on March 1st. Tannic treatment also helps red form s. flava's get the red color, and retain it. Tannins in the water also inhibit algae growth.
 
  • #12
I wonder if your problem could have been that the plants were actively growing when you plunged them into dormancy. Most of the Home Depot plants are tissue cultured and pretty small when you buy them. The plants need to "see" the shortening days (lengthening dark period), perhaps with cooler weather, to go dormant. There are a lot of physiological changes associated with dormancy, plunging an actively growing plant into a cool dark area is not the same as putting a dormant plant into a cool dark area. It is possible that your storage method was fine, your plants just were not ready.
I am in NJ. I grow my Sarrs in large, plastic pots. They stay outside until November and experience natural conditions and a few light frosts. Before we get a long, hard freeze they go into my attached garage, where it stays cool all winter, and then back outside in May. Good lucke!
 
  • #13
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Just because you are not attached to them, Mannex, doesn't mean you do not give it a chance.

Mannex, I agree with this. If you have the space--and it won't be used for something else in the meantime--why not? And plastic pots are very very cheap so you can always buy more.

In any case, keeping them for a few months will give you an idea of just how "good" or "bad" your dormancy conditions were. Sometimes looks can be deceiving: especially when it comes to CPs. Your "dead" looking plants may not be dead at all. I can't recall how many times one of my "dead" CPs resurrected after several months. So if they come back after a few months, you didn't do as bad as you thought....and if they don't, then it may be time to make radical changes to your dormancy conditions.

Hope you decide to keep them...and hope you're surprised by new growth in the near future!
smile.gif
 
  • #14
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Feb. 23 2006,3:18)]Not me, Scotty. Some of these have been in the same base for 5 years. 2 more, and I will repot, and make divisions. I grow in Rubbermaid plastic dishpans, and have kept them under water for as long as I can remember. Many folks dry theirs down for winter, and let dormancy do its thing. Many also suffer losses during this time. I think fungus' like the damp conditions, and have a merry time destroying the rhizomes during the sleeping season.
      I use tannic acid in the spring, and white vinegar to increase soil acid, and simply keep them submerged. They respond VERY well to this treatment. I have a whole lot of buds coming up right now, and they are going to be subjected to the tannic acid/vinegar treatment on March 1st. Tannic treatment also helps red form s. flava's get the red color, and retain it. Tannins in the water also inhibit algae growth.
Steve,
do you mean you submerge the entire bog?
media and all??
I was thinking you were removing the rhizomes and floating them in water..

any pics?
smile.gif


Scot
 
  • #15
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Woodnative @ Feb. 23 2006,9:55)]I wonder if your problem could have been that the plants were actively growing when you plunged them into dormancy...
Yeah, that thought occured to me too. I was scared about letting them get too cold, and probably stuffed them in early. And I'm positive they were TC'd, because there was a lot of small crowded growth on them.

Today I took a small knife and put a small notch in each rhizome to see what was going on in there, and the insides of most were some dark reddish-tan-brownish color, and I read that healthy rhizomes were white. Although, in the S. minor rhizome, beneath the hard brown "bark" coating, there was actually some white in there so that's staying, but I bet the rest have gone to that big garden in the sky.
 
  • #16
Hey Ryan, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I'm not sure where you live in PA, but I live near Philly. I overwinter my plants in an unheated sunporch. It can get into the low 20s for brief periods of time, and all plants are fine. The key I think is good circulation, keeping the plants JUST DAMP and I think even the light helps to keep fungus down. I'll be dividing some plants soon, so PM me about your specific losses.
 
  • #17
Bug, I am puzzled. If you put them in the fridge, and they're wet, it's a no-no. But if you keep them submerged(which is, after all, very wet)and cold outside it works out better? Keeping them really, really wet prevents fungus? I'm not challenging you AT ALL...I'm just confused! I also understood these plants need light during dormancy...they can't be getting too much light in the fridge....
smile_h_32.gif
 
  • #18
April, some of the healthiest, largest, and happy plants I have seen in the wild Somwhere in South Carolina, were s. flavas growing in and around a small pond. S. flavas were growing everywhere, even into the fringes of the pond out as far as 2 feet from the edge, 4" under. THEY WERE IMMENSE and happy. Their condition stayed that way all year long, including winter. I am sure the water moving along helped a lot. Kept the soil well oxygenated, which helps ward off fungus. That is how I grow mine. And they love it.
 
  • #19
This is confusing.  So many people provide dormancy in so many diverse ways.  I think the only options I have currently are my dark garage (and I read that they still need light during dormancy, so I don't know), and my fridge.

It's said that poor circulation encourages mold, but a lot of people put their plants in plastic bags if they give them fridge dormancies.  When I got my plants out of the garage and fridge, none of them had mold or anything on them.  They just looked dead, which leads me to believe I either put them in too early, or they just didn't have enough energy stored to survive the winter.

I bet my garage would be a good temperature and would protect them from freezing wind, but I'm not sure if they'd get enough light (if they need it, which I'm also not sure about, because contrary to the myth, the light does turn off when you close your refrigerator door.
smile_m_32.gif
)

Bare-rooting them and bagging them in the fridge also seems like a good idea, because I don't think they'd require light, and I'd be able to check up on the rhizome and roots to see if they're doing alright, but due to space constraints, I'd have to clip off most or all of the leaves, which I'm also not sure about.

Cobraplant.com advises you to keep living leaves if doing a garage dormancy, but instead advises that you cut off all "carnivorous leaves" if you're doing a fridge dormancy.  I gather that means you keep the phyllodia (which only occur on S. Oreophila?).  The only exception is S. purpurea, with which you only rinse out the pitchers, and keep them attached.

If I did a fridge dormancy, and cut off all of the leaves, how would the plant sense an increased photoperiod while coming out of dormancy?  Does the increased temperature kind of start the leaves growing, which then detect the increased photoperiod?

Also, which one of the two dormancy options I outlined do you think would work the best?

P.S. JBL, that's amazingly generous of you.  I'll send you a PM.
 
  • #20
one of the ways i use tot ell if theyre dead is i see if the leaves come off easilly if i pull a little bit ususally if theyre wet at teh abse and come right off I let them in for about 3 weeks before i throw them out
 
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