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Hiya,

Here is a list of what I have in flower at present. I have a few ideas of what I would like to cross but I would also like some other opinions.

This being my first year in trying to create something a little special I would appreciate the input experienced eye.

Also, I am unable to house everything I cross this year so anyone helping me out will get first dibs when it comes to passing around the seed Wink

Thank you for any help,

Joel

The List

Alata 'Copper Lid'
Alata "Heavily Veined In Throat" West Louisiana
Alata - Giant form Angelina County Texas
Alata 'Purple Lid & White Flower'

Flava - Sussex county Sussex county
Flava Ornata Bay County Florida
Flava Rubricopora Don Schnell Appalachicola National Forest
Flava Var Rubricorpora Giant Red Tube
Flava Var Rugelii Milton Florida
Flava Maxima
Flava Very Large Form North Carolina
Flava Var Rugelii
Flava Var Cuprea Coppertop, Tall Form, Veined
Flava Var Rugelii Apalachicola
Flava Var Flava Elegant Form
Flava 'Pocahontas'

Rubra Gulfensis, Stocky form, Yellow River
Rubra Wherryi 'Chathom Giant'

Brooks Hybrid Back-Cross
Hummers Hammerhead
Snow Flake
Alata Red Lid x Flava Var. Maxima
Alata x Minor
Red Bug
Rubra Ssp. Gulfensis x Flava
Alata x Oreophila Green Pitchers
Flava Rugelii x Chelsonii
Juthatip Soper
Ladies In Waiting
x Farnhamii
x Harperi
Leucophylla x Oreophila
Oreophila x Purpurea
x Exornata
x Moorei (H9)
(Flava x Oreophila) x Purpurea sp. Venosa
Areolata x Alata Red Throat
Oreophila x Flava Maxima (NC 242)
Moorie x Purpurea Ssp. Venosa
Flava x Popei

Leucophylla X Flava Pensacola Fields
Leucophylla 'Bunting Original'
Leucophylla 'Gas Station' site'
Leucophylla Pink Tube
Leucophylla Hurricane Creek
Leucophylla Red & White
Leucophylla Red & White Perdido, Alabama

Minor Okee Giant
Minor Var. Okefenokeensis Okefenokee Swamp
Minor Large Form North Florida

Oreophila - Tall Vigorous & Stocky
 
Quite a bit to chose from

My suggestions would be these (or their recipricals):

RTF x leuco "HCW"
RTF x leuco "pink tube"
RTF X (leuco x oreo)
minor "okee giant" x leuco "HCW"
'Juthatip Soper' x leuco "HCW"
'Juthatip Soper' x RTF
'Juthatip Soper' x minor "okee giant"
'Juthatip Soper' x oreo
'Juthatip Soper' x (leuco x oreo)
 
I would definitely cross some of the great flavas you have with eachother. I'd definitely cross flava rubricorpora x leuco Pink Tube, alata Heavy Veined x leuco Pink Tube, alata Copper Lid x flava cuprea, minor Okee Giant x any flava, oreo x any flava/alata. Ahh...so many great possibilities. Good luck!

And what the heck is flava 'Pocahantas'?
 
Ah yes...a very nice clone indeed. Will have to try and get some. Thanks for the pics.
 
Joel,

Yes RTF = Red Tube Flava.

Sorry, short hand between myself and some friends, I forgot it was not universal
 
Is 'Pocahontas' from Stephen Morley, Joel?
 
You are leaving out the oreo. It is supposed to impart outstanding color and vigor. I question the color part as none of my crosses are that colorful but the oreo hybrids I do have are very vigorous. If you are serious about breeding, you will need to get a hold of rubra alabamensis. It is supposed to impart very intersting hoods, like Hummer's Hammer Head.
Purps and psitts create interesting shapes
 
Just a question:

What would S psittacina (purpurea ssp. venosa x minor) look like?
 
  • #11
You are leaving out the oreo. It is supposed to impart outstanding color and vigor. I question the color part as none of my crosses are that colorful but the oreo hybrids I do have are very vigorous. If you are serious about breeding, you will need to get a hold of rubra alabamensis. It is supposed to impart very intersting hoods, like Hummer's Hammer Head.
Purps and psitts create interesting shapes

I have one on the way lol but it isnt flowering. The above list are the ones from my collection that are in flower.

I have a few ideas, I just hope the flowers open at the same time now.

Keep your eyes peeled for some seeds later in the year folks :boogie:

Joel
 
  • #12
Joel,

I am in the same boat as you as far as wanting things open in tandem. If it looks like you are going to miss blooms that you would like to cross then store the pollen from the early one to use on the late one. I am doing this myself right now. Two methods I have had recommended are to collect pollen on foil and store in frige or cut the bloom and store the whole thing in frige with the stem stuck in water.
 
  • #13
Our best suggestion, Joel, is to use the most select clones. Have an idea as to what a goal may be for any particular cross, and consider vigor and disease resistance as positive attributes to breed for in a hybrid.
 
  • #14
Thank you for the tips ..

I dont plan to cross any weak or dull plants. Im infact in the process of getting rid of them to make room for better specimens.
 
  • #17
Thank you bug catcher ... makes the decisions even harder lol.
 
  • #18
If you're looking for new, cool-looking plants, I would avoid the simple crosses, such as flava x leucophylla. While they look nice, there's already a bunch out there and it would be easier to just trade for them rather than raising them from seed. The complex the plants you cross, the more variety you'll get in the offspring. You know what you're gonna get with a leuco x flava cross. If you crossed, for example, hummers hammerhead with ladies in waiting, you could get quite the x-section of plants. Some will probably look a lot like psittacina, some will look rubra-esque, with all points in between. Those in between plants are generally the most interesting, in my opinion. But, since it's your first go at it, do what you want to do, since you never really know what you'll get for sure. Here's a pic of 3 siblings from my first ever crosses. it was a leuco x oreo crossed with an unknown leuco hybrid, probably leuco x alata:
3sibs.jpg


This is another of my first crosses, a nice bizarre looking one. psitt x (purp x minor) crossed with the same unknown leuco hybrid in the previous pic:
psitxpurpxminorxareolata.jpg


i'm hoping they all survived the winter, since i've lost several plants to some kind of rot.
 
  • #19
I will be doing one or two complex mixes however I would rather be able to control, to some extent, the outcome.

I was thinking of starting me own line up of simple hybrids and then breed from them. This would make my hybrids in the future totally unique as no one will have my exllens, moorei etc etc

I think this would be a better route for the future however one or two complex crosses a year cant hurt :D

Joel
 
  • #20
I was thinking of starting me own line up of simple hybrids and then breed from them. This would make my hybrids in the future totally unique as no one will have my exllens, moorei etc etc
Joel
Joel, you are right on the money. Although there are multitudes of the same primary crosses out there, creating your own will produce offspring that may be superior to what we all see on a day to day basis. If you are serious about investing your time, effort, and financial resources in a Sarracenia breeding program it would be to your best advantage to use only the finest clonal examples of the species you wish to work with. Believe me...I know. I've been doing this for many, many years. But I started from scratch. My best species clones are the result of multiple selfing and sibling crosses over more than a decade. You may not want to invest this much time into your project but it certainly does reap results, the best results.

For instance..for breeding purposes I was not overly pleased with the RTF clones I grew in the collection. So I began making selfing and sibling crosses between them. Out of all the seedlings produced I picked one to keep as a stud breeder. It is a giant among RTF with deep soild red tubes and dark red hoods nearly 7 inches wide.

I then crossed this with S. leucophylla 'Titan' making another S. moorei. The results, as expected, made people stop in their tracks; even other Sarr breeders. When the best of this seed batch flowered I began using IT, (yes only 1), for futher breeding. I crossed it with S.'Judith Hindle', S. oreophila, etc and well...Sarracenia hybrid heaven! The likes of which very few have ever seen. I've also made these exact same crosses using the S. moorei "Big Red" (which originated from me and will be registered soon under the name S.'Royal Ruby') and from these sprouted S. 'Reptilian Rose'; a cross with S. oreophila Sand Mt form. The pitchers are gigantic with the pattern of a lizard's skin in shades of deep rose and pink and smell like old English roses...the real rose fragrance. This cultivar will also be registered this year as well.

So please don't ever dismiss the great potential of simple primary crosses. The only way to get what you're looking for is to keep breeding with only the very best stock, as Trent mentioned. This applies to making crosses with hybrids as well. Remember that old computer cliche...garbage in..garbage out. It helps to have an artistic eye and have a game plan for what you want the outcome to be. There are sooooo many hybrids out there, registered and unregistered, that look like the breeder didn't put any thought into the results.

Currently I am growing out approx. 600 S. moorei seedlings that were made using 4 of my best S. leucophylla, (including a near pure white veinless form) and the 5 best S. flava in the collection. At one year old many of them are close to 12 inches tall and the colors and patterns are breath taking...even at this early stage.

You may not have the space to grow out so many plants but neither do I. Most all of them are grown in large community pots or trays. When the plants begin their 3rd growing season I make my selections and send the rest of them to my other shared nursery. I can usually tell at this stage which are my favorites. I try to keep no more than 3 or 4 plants from each cross...although I did end up keeping a dozen pure red S. moorei from a previous cross. My bad! :)

This year is the season for S. oreophila crosses. It is a staple in hybridization projects if you want superior growth, color and patterns. BTW...don't forget about using S.'Dana's Delight' as a breeder too. When crossed with really nice forms of S. flava you will get S. moorei type seedlings in glowing shades of reds, purples and fuschia. It is also excellent crossed with S. oreophila. Trust me!

Phil
 
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