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S. oreophila

  • #21
I didn't come here to start a legal debate, I came to talk about my awesome new plant.

The nursery these plants came from is very reputable and well known, so I highly doubt that lying to his customer's faces would be very lucrative. Obviously he wouldn't risk jail time to give away plants, so he must be confident in his legal standing, as I was when I made the order.

It's after the fact because I hadn't really planned on a legal debate about it.... Call me a sheep, but I tend to trust people.
 
  • #22
Oh well I'm getting one from the same place he is and I live in the same state at this nursery so if they make any profit it will be legal;)
 
  • #23
DrWurm said:
It's after the fact because I hadn't really planned on a legal debate about it.... Call me a sheep, but I tend to trust people.
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Several years ago, the government fined an individual $2500 for accepting plants (or seeds) from someone that he 'trusted'. While I do not recall the details, he shared this info on the CP listserver twice over the years and possibly also on this forum.

My takeaway has been to err on the side of caution & knowledge as ignorance of the rules does not change the consequences.

There have been instances of people from other countries selling Neps to people in the states who have stated that everything was legal & not to worry. Similar stories with seed sellers from other countries. Had you trusted these individual's assessment of US laws and gotten caught, your fines would likely have been similarly onerous as the one mentioned above ....

While I do not have the knowledge to judge this particular set of circumstances, there are other opportunities for these plants where the legality of the situation is not remotely debatable. One of these is seed available currently from the ICPS seedbank...
 
  • #24
okay, this is getting on my nerves.
IT IS LEGAL.
Period. End of story. No longer debatable due to facts. It'd be nice if the responses of the nursery owners weren't blatantly overlooked or mistrusted.

This is like walking into a best buy and worrying if a TV is stolen. Of course you expect the sale to be legal, it's best buy, not a pawn shop.
 
  • #25
listen to Ron...he knows what hes talking about....... its not that we dont trust them. they just didnt read the rules correctly. across state lines. NO money can be put into the trasaction at all unless its the givers money(eating the postage). the ICPS has special governmental permission for the 1$ charge for CITES seeds.

Alex
 
  • #26
Well, I just emailed Fish and Wildlife. Although, knowing most websites like this, the person receiving the email will have absolutely no idea, and will have to send it further up the chain to the grandmaster of horticultural law.
 
  • #27
Well, I just emailed Fish and Wildlife.
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I thought you said you were sure it was legal? :-))

It all in the semantics though - $6 shipping, consisting of $3 postage and $3 packing materials, time and the gas to go to the post office would be one way of looking at it.
 
  • #28
DrWurm said:
Well, I just emailed Fish and Wildlife.
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I hope you used a masked IP address and a phony account and spoke in hypotheticals so if it turns out it's not legal you didn't just turn yourself in! lol. :-))

xvart.
 
  • #29
DrWurm said:
okay, this is getting on my nerves. IT IS LEGAL. Period. End of story. No longer debatable due to facts.
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My apologies for annoying you. Was not my intent. Based on what I've seen in the past (w/ fairly current examples), it may not be in your best interest to consistently let a nursery owner provide you with the 'final' judgment.
glider14 said:
listen to Ron...he knows what hes talking about.......
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Actually, in terms of specific knowledge on these rules, I'm probably lower on the information hierarchy than the original CP nursery in the post. :0o: When the downside risks are fairly significant, I like to be extremely cautious .... ??? I can't imagine getting a big fine just for doing something within one of my hobbies .....
 
  • #30
xvart said:
I hope you used a masked IP address and a phony account and spoke in hypotheticals so if it turns out it's not legal you didn't just turn yourself in! lol. :-))

xvart.
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I quadruple encrypted my Navajo message with a Rijndael block cipher. By the time they figure out it was me, I'll have moved to Russia and changed my name to Jason Bourne.
 
  • #31
Well just so you are not be overly disappointed when you get your plant be aware that the pitchers in this species often die off around the middle of summer and phyllodia growth starts around the same time.
 
  • #32
Why would I be disappointed when getting a new CP? I love em all.
 
  • #33
dissapointed by physical appearence :)
 
  • #34
Well my little guy I hope will do great next year......
I think you could ship a small sarr in a bubble mailer.
I am very dissapointed with that nusery getting in contact on the phoen even after many orders from the same person is impossible,I wish I could visit but no onsite visits very dissapointing....
 
  • #35
I don't get disappointed unless the plant I get is clearly not representative of what I ordered, like ordering a 3 inch potted plant that comes with a 3/4 inch leafspan.
 
  • #36
What a heated debate! Man o man emailed fisheries and wildlife....hooo boy. Well....I spose I can add something.....somewhat informative here.

Dr. wurm, I know you've already been teed off by some of the replies here but let me add my .02 cents because I feel like it.

Well, Xvart, according to the owners of the site, what they're doing is legal. They're not trying to bend the law. They made sure that it would be alright with US fish and wildlife before they did it. So that, as they say, is that.
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Are they lawmakers? Uh no. In regarding this then they should have documentation available to send to people they are sending this plant to or have it posted on their website for viewing.

okay, this is getting on my nerves.
IT IS LEGAL.
Period. End of story. No longer debatable due to facts. It'd be nice if the responses of the nursery owners weren't blatantly overlooked or mistrusted.

This is like walking into a best buy and worrying if a TV is stolen. Of course you expect the sale to be legal, it's best buy, not a pawn shop.
Click to expand...

Ok first off too bad if its getting on your nerves, the law is the law! And what they are doing is technically against the law. Period. End of story. And it is still debatable because technically NO MONEY can be exchanged when this plant is being gifted away. And to sell the plant the business has to have a permit from the government to sell within the state ONLY. In regards to bestbuy, well there isn't a federally endangered law on a TV set.....a place that sells living things and a place that sells non living things are fairly different in law abiding factors.

In not trying to argue I'm just trying to tell you what is legally true and sound. Yeah, they probably won't get caught because as we know that never happens, but if you didn't want to start a whole heated debate here about the legality of this offer then you should have simply replied I am getting an S. oreophila and not went into details. The fact that you sent them $6 for a box is still under the illegal title because the plant is coming with that and monetary exchange took place.

Sorry to burst your bubble man, no worries, you're fine but wrong. ;) Just hope the fisheries and wildlife people don't come to your house with cuffs and a bill.
 
  • #37
DrWurm said:
I don't get disappointed unless the plant I get is clearly not representative of what I ordered, like ordering a 3 inch potted plant that comes with a 3/4 inch leafspan.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that perhaps you had high expectations on the plant, wanting to post photos of it as soon as you got it and all that. Sarracenia in dormancy are not very photogenic. Look through this section and out of the hundreds of Sarracenia photos you'll probably find less than a dozen photos of dormant Sarracenia. In the spring you should be treated to some nice pitcher growth.

I hope you mean 3 to 4 inch leaf span. The phyllodia of a S. oreophila in 3 inch pot should easily reach that size. If they are only 3/4 of an inch then it would be a mere seedling unless the leaves have been trimmed. The phyllodia, if still green, should not be trimmed.

At the last LACPS meeting there were a couple of mature flowering size S. oreophila (12 inch pitchers easily) in six in pots for sale for what you paid in postage.

As far as opinions go I would listen to Bugweed who has been growing CPs close to 50 years and is one of the founders of the North American Sarracenia Conservancy. You may not worry if a TV set you bought from Best Buy was stolen or not. If it should turn out to have been stolen, you could be charged with receiving stolen goods.
 
  • #38
Well, let's just wait and see what fish and wildlife has to say, if anything at all.
 
  • #39
Well thats true, they are the experts on legal stuff. Will be interesting if they reply to you.
 
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