BOGUS S. leucophylla HCW

[Pyro]

Okay, so some of you may recall the HCW I gave away a few weeks ago. Well I was talking with Barry Rice and John Brittnacher about my plant yesterday and here is what Barry had to say:

If it were my plant, I'd give it away. Whatever it is, it ain't the advertised article.

Rather disappointed to hear this as you might imagine.

How did Barry know it was not the real deal? The bloom was all he needed to make the assertion.

HCW, while it is a high white plant, has perfectly normal leucophylla blooms.

So, here are the blooms from two different, perfectly normal leucophylla:

Note the dark red petals and the maroon sepals

Here is the bloom off the plant sent to me as HCW:

A rather drastic difference.

So, why am I bringing this up (aside from the obvious gripe)?

This is a very important lesson that I think everyone need to take home. Plants that are "rare" get high value attached to them. And occasionally this leads to someone somewhere deciding to pull a fast one. And then the thing gets perpetuated onto others out of ignorance. If you get your hands on a plant that is supposed to be "rare" then take the time to confirm it and if you discover it is not the real deal then do not keep sending it out with the wrong label!!

I know who I got my plant from and I know he sent it to me fully believing it was the real deal. I also know who sent him the plant and I am fairly certain they sent it to my source believing it was the real thing as well. I am not going to out anyone because I am not looking to start a galactic finger pointing fiasco.

Now I do not know who the progenitor of this plant was so I can not follow the progression of possession but if anyone else has a plant labeled as HCW and the blooms look like those of mine then CHANGE THE LABEL NOW!!

 

[Fryster]

You bring up some really good points Pyro.

I had been looking for the HCW just for its white/green pitchers. Heck, I'd settle for a "fake" HCW just as long there wasn't and red pigmentation in its pitchers.

Nice photos BTW.

 

[Woodnative]

I didn't know that there was a difference in the flowers. Since my plants are SLOW in NJ, I will have to check that out come bloom time.

HCL is a population, and there is some variability from plant to plant. Those plants that DO not look like HCW must not be labeled such and culled from the HCW gene pool. I grew a bunch of HCW from the ICPS seedbank. Of the nine or ten or so seedlings, I gave three away to cp beginners just as S. leucos. They were very nice leucos, but had red veining and on one the veining was very coarse. The other six or seven were decent and true to form. I think I traded away three, gave one to a friend, and kept a couple.

HCW is a beautiful and vigorous plant which should be in everyone's Sarracenia collection! -Chris

 

[xvart]

Good information, Pyro. It's very important to double check all your cultivars, especially on species that it can be more difficult to tell (i.e. Sarracenia, Pinguicula vs. Nepenthes. A good starting place for descriptions, while not comprehensive, is the ICPS Cultivar Registration. I wouldn't even begin to trade my collection away for a rare cultivar unless it was someone I completely trusted; and even then, as Pyro describes, it still may not be correct.

xvart.

 

[Alexis]

Your plant doesn't look like 'pure' leucophylla either. With the pink tinge in the petals, there's a chance there is some alata in there, although the pitchers may look like typical leucophylla.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Now I am not sure how cultivars work for CPs, but for orchids when a cultivar is named. The ONLY other plants that can have that cultivar name are ones divided off that plant or clones made from that plant. Seed grown plants ARE NOT that same cultivar even if they look like it. For the simple reason of genetic variation. Just because a plant looks like another does not mean you can slap the cultivar name on it. Since cultivar names are meant to distinguish that one plant for its genetic makeup. Seed grown seeds do not have that genetic makeup even if the mother plant was selfed. I have seen several different cultivars come out of one seed batch since all the siblings look different just like all kids of humand look different from the parents. The same goes for plants. That is why you cannot slap the same cultivar of the mother to seed grown plants that came from that cultivar.

Woodnative you cannot put the cultivar of HCW on seeds grown from a HCW plant. They are not IMO HCW. Not even to the ones that look like HCW.

I guess my search for HCW starts again.

 

[Pyro]

Your plant doesn't look like 'pure' leucophylla either. With the pink tinge in the petals, there's a chance there is some alata in there, although the pitchers may look like typical leucophylla.

Yes I suspect that it is probably an alata x leuco back crossed to leuco

 

[wmgorum]

Travis,

Have you got a shot of the pitchers? Just curious what they look like...

Will

 

[Not a Number]

Woodnative you cannot put the cultivar of HCW on seeds grown from a HCW plant. They are not IMO HCW. Not even to the ones that look like HCW.

I guess my search for HCW starts again.

From the cultivar registration description of 'Hurricane Creek White':

...produces an abundance of seed even when selfed. (Seed production is a good way to raise a large number of Sarracenia that have the characteristics of this cultivar. In order to maintain this cultivar’s unique hardiness, color, and size characters, do not attach the cultivar name to any seedlings that do not show the large white pitchers of this Sarracenia leucophylla cultivar.)

According to John Brittnacher of the ICPS seedbank approximately 20-25% of the seedlings will display red veining and should not be labeled 'Hurricane Creek White'

 

[xvart]

Now I am not sure how cultivars work for CPs, but for orchids when a cultivar is named. The ONLY other plants that can have that cultivar name are ones divided off that plant or clones made from that plant. Seed grown plants ARE NOT that same cultivar even if they look like it. For the simple reason of genetic variation.

Josh - there are few "colonial" cultivars, whereas the entire population is considered to be of that cultivar. The genetic variation does vary among the plants, but for appearance sake, they are close enough to warrant the "colonial" cultivar status, which of course, only adds to the confusion.

xvart.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Yes you are correct it adds to the confusion. Whoever came up with that type of identification is not very bright. A cultivar should be used to name one specific plant. Not a group. that would lead to a lot less confusion. Then goof ups like this would not happen either where Pyro and I's plants turn out not to be HCW possibly due to someone attaching the name to seed grown HCW that may have cross pollinated with another plant leading to its false ID.

 

[Pyro]

@ William,

No pitchers up yet but once they do go up I'll try to get some shots.

 

[Not a Number]

Yes you are correct it adds to the confusion. Whoever came up with that type of identification is not very bright. A cultivar should be used to name one specific plant. Not a group. that would lead to a lot less confusion. Then goof ups like this would not happen either where Pyro and I's plants turn out not to be HCW possibly due to someone attaching the name to seed grown HCW that may have cross pollinated with another plant leading to its false ID.

If you have issues with the Cultivar registration process for Carnivorous Plants I suggest you take the up with the ICPS, the International Cultivar Registration Authority (ICRA) for CPs:

http://www.ishs.org/sci/icralist/34.htm

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cultivars/cultivarsmain.html

If you have additional questions regarding the ICRA registration process, you can direct them to the ICPS Registrar, Jan Schlauer.

They are well aware of your criticisms. However no rules or laws are ever going to eliminate outright fraud or honest mistakes.

 

[wmgorum]

Thanks, Pyro... no worries about pictures on my end... just thought you might have pictures of pitchers from previous years, it'd be nice to see 'em... don't take 'em and post 'em just for me! ;-)

 

[xvart]

don't take 'em and post 'em just for me! ;-)

Yes, do it just for me!

xvart.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Not a number. When I have the time i just might do that. A cultivar is a certain single plant and its exact clones in my book. If you have seed grown HCW and you place a the cultivar name on them of HCW that could account for the variation of the flowers. Which leads to the confusion when the plant gets mature.

 

[xvart]

Which is why you can't cross a 'Leah Wilkerson' with another 'Lean Wilkerson' resulting in a baby 'Leah Wilkerson.'

xvart.

 

[Pyro]

@ William (& X for that matter)

I tend to be a shutter bug anyways so I would be taking pics regardless