New to CP, new to forum, and in need of sarr advice

[scottychaos]

hmmm..tricky problem.
im not all familiar with desert environments, (never even been to one!
but IMO all you can do is grow the plants "normally" and see how they do..

get DEEP trays of water..
I have been using "the tray method" for 16 years..never had a problem.
I have never even heard of this "rhizome melt" that Pyro mentioned..not saying it doesnt happen,
(and if it does, I doubt its because of too much water) but I wouldnt worry about it..
sarrs generally cant be over-watered! some people keep the water table nearly at the surface for extended periods..

from what I have seen, the tray method is "tried and true" and works great..
you want LOTS of water, especially in your environment..dont worry about it being too much water!
"too much" is always better than "too little" for Sarrs and VFT's..get trays like this:





Keep the tray filled all the time, to the top, so that maybe only 2" to 5" of the pot (depending on the pot size) is "above water"..

you could try to rig a sunshade to filter the mid-day sun..maybe some slats or shade cloth that shade the plants between 11:00 and 2:00 or so..mid-day when the sun and heat are the most intense, but then allows "full sun" in the morning and later afternoon..

IMO, Zone 6 is too cold to overwinter sarrs and VFTs outdoors in pots..
Zone 6 is "borderline safe" if plants are in the ground, in a bog, with heavy mulching..
but definately not safe for plants in pots..
you need to be Zone 7 or higher to have no worries for outdoor dormancy..
but it sounds like you get cool enough in the fall that the fridge might work fine for you..
I have some thoughts on zones and fridges here:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/CP/page2.html


Scot

[Pyro]

I have never even heard of this "rhizome melt" that Pyro mentioned..not saying it doesnt happen,
(and if it does, I doubt its because of too much water) but I wouldnt worry about it..
sarrs generally cant be over-watered! some people keep the water table nearly at the surface for extended periods..

I never said that rhizome melt was caused by "too much water". I said that using the tray method seems to encourages the growth of the fungus that causes rhizome melt. And I am not the only person who has seen this phenomenon. I know the Meeks in FL have encountered the same thing, as has Ron Lane up there and And Jay L in VA and ABG and Brooks Garcia here. Phil Faulisi has also discussed with me a "syndrome" that occasionally has wiped out some of his plants that sounds to be the same beast. And not long ago Wolfn was talking about losing his S. minor and his description was spot on of the disease. And IIRC you were contributing to that thread and the Meeks actually addressed the melt/rot in there...

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...ighlight=minor

ABG, the Meeks and myself all came to the same solution and that it to top water. It allows the water to flow and keeps it from stagnating and allows for air penetration into the media. Doing this markedly curbs the incidence of this syndrome.

My own conversations with numerous growers has also lead me to believe there is a correlation between this syndrome and heat. Most New England and Mid-Atlantic growers only seem to encounter it rarely where as most of us Southern growers seem to encounter it yearly. And given the OPs location and the heat in said location I would be inclined to think that he would be more susceptible to potential melt/rot. I feel forewarned is forearmed so I am letting the OP know what could happen so that he can deal with it if it should happen.

[thecelloman]

You both make good points, so I think I'm just going to have to wing it and hope for the best, though I'll definitely take into account everything said here. Thanks so much everyone, for all the help. This was a very nice way to be welcomed to the forums

[Capensis]

Hiya, welcome to TF!

Well. Everything has pretty much been mentioned, haha. We do have some desert growers here, so I guess you can consult with them or use the search function to look for a thread about Sarracenias in deserts. Hope this helps. Have fun with this new addiction/hobby!

[joossa]

I'm a desert grower. I'm growing in the Mojave, or at least at the edge of the Mojave. Nevertheless, my area experiences extremes in terms of temperatures similar to you your area. Very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. While I've had some trouble with flytraps, I haven't lost a single Sarracenia to date. Most are acclimated to the heat and tolerate it quite well. In fact they don't have problems even when the daily high goes up to 105F.. sometimes even up to 110F.

Here is what I do when the scorching heat hits:

-I use pots of all sizes... the size depends on the plant's size. I don't use overly large pots, though.
-I always top water no matter what. The tray method doesn't work because most of the water evaporates away. Using cooler water from indoors helps lower the temperature inside the pot.
-I do let the runoff gather in the tray. Sometimes after top watering, after the runoff goes down to the tray, I fill the tray up, but only AFTER top watering with cool water.
-On the hottest days, I water once in the morning and once in the afternoon. If the plants are in full sun and its a 105+ day, I also top water in the middle of the day.
-If it's going to stay above 105 for more than a few hours, I consider moving the plants to a more shaded area.


As you can tell, watering is key. Forget to water on one of those lovely days and that's all it may take...


Oh let me share this with you to. I thought of this set up two years ago and works for the smaller pots. I'll let the picture do the talking:





Desert growing is very possible. Good luck!

[scottychaos]

I guess im confused..
Joosa, you say "The tray method doesn't work because most of the water evaporates away"..
but then you go on to describe how you use the tray method!
you photo IS the tray method!

there is no set "tray size" to "the tray method"..
you are simply using bigger trays!
the tray doesnt have to be small or shallow..

if you have a pot in any container that holds water, its "the tray method"..
to *not* be the tray method, you would have to have no container that holds water..
like a minibog, or a circulating pump, or just "top watering" with no container to catch the water..something like that..

you can still "top water" with the tray method..just water the pot, and the water seeps down into the tray..the tray simply keeps the overall mositure high..it makes no difference (to the tray method) *how* you water..you can "top water" or simply fill the tray..

yes it might make a difference how you water if you are concerned about the "rhizome melt"..so you might want to only top water then..but thats not a factor of "the tray method", thats unrelated to the tray method....you can top water with, or without, a tray..and you can use a tray with or without top watering..the tray method does not specify any specific watering technique..it only holds water.

I think we are getting terms confused here..
to me, everything discussed so far in this thread has simply been variations on "the tray method"..

thoughts?

Scot

[joossa]

I guess your right... Hehe

However, I always thought the "traditional" tray method was to simply fill the tray and let the pot's media absorb the water via the pot's holes. This is what doesn't work for me and what I was referring to in my post.

I guess what I describe and use is a version of the tray method. I was just trying to emphasize the top watering as a priority.

[scottychaos]

ok..that makes sense..
I just never saw "the tray method" as specifically requiring no top watering!
(and I still believe it does not imply any specific watering technique..the tray is seperate from the watering method..)

celloman,
hope we havent confused you too much!

Scot