floppy sar pitchers, phyllodia, what's going on with my plants this summer?

[petmantis]

That is really strange that your sarrs are doing this. I wish I had some advice, but I don't. If it's any consolation, all my outside cps (sarrs and vfts) look like crap this year. I'm not getting the floppy growth or excess phyllodia, but in general they are lacking color, robustness, and vigor. Just very weak and pathetic overall.

Except for a few token plants, I perfectly agree with Nightsky on this. Absolutely colorless S. oreophila "sand mountain" (which is supposed to be heavily veined, lol). Very weak color on plants that are supposed to be quite colorful - like S. flava ornata and atropurpurea.

Not sure if it was a bad dormancy, but the some most vigorous and fast-growing plants I have (S. leucophylla 'Tarnok', S. 'Dana's Delight') have produced nothing but the ugliest phyllodia and lanky pitchers that crumple over themselves when it rains.

 

[back2eight]

mine are of poor coloration as well.

I don't think I can blame it on water quality becuase they get better water than my neps do and my neps are looking fine, no problems at all. Strange!

 

[mannyherrera]

Well, Neps are way more tolerant of poor water quality than any of the other CPs. I use city water on some of mine and they grow no differently. Our city water is very CP unfriendly.

 

[SirKristoff]

definitely Manny....especially considering neps usually have a more open, airy mix which if you water through the top on a regular basis, usually helps with any mineral build up...now for the people using a basic peat/perlite mix with their neps or any other thick, easily compacted media, it would probably be a different story...

 

[mannyherrera]

Indeed Kristoff. I grow my Sarrs in peat and a lot of perlite. I've toyed with the idea of using a more airy mix, but the amount of watering I'd have to do would be unfeasible.

 

[back2eight]

I've got mine in straight peat. Been doing it that way for about 11 years now. The only thing I did differently this year was put them in pools so I wouldn't have to water them at all, the rain water would collect in the pools and they would have plenty of water without me having to run a sprinkler. And it's those that look bad, not the others that I have top watered with a sprinkler every day. So I have removed them from the pools and will top water with tap water like I've been doing my for sale plants. I thought I was doing my personal collection a favor by putting them in those pools but I guess they didn't like it at all!

 

[scottychaos]

hmmm..
I too am having floppy sarr issues this summer!
it seems to be an epidemic..

for the last few years, I have been suspecting my mini-bog setup could be better..
my plants do fine..they seems healthy, and they grow like weeds..
but they do tend to be very floppy..
right now about half my sarr pitchers are horizontal..

(photo from last summer, this year I have a lot more floppy pitchers)

I think my main problem is that im keeping the water table too high..
my drain holes are only about 2" below the "surface"..which keeps a very waterlogged bog.
Im considering drilling new drain holes much lower..maybe half way up the sides..
which will give the roots a lot more room to grow down into wet, but *not* waterlogged peat..
overall that would make the bogs much "drier"..but probably still "wet enough"..

everything needs to be repotted next spring anyway..so I might try that next year..
OR!! I have always wanted to try a "Bugweed's Recirculating Bog" setup:

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106887

that seems ideal..
I might try that next year, instead of just lowering the water table..
for now, im not really worried about my plants..they are fine, except for the floppyness..
(which is probably a symptom of potential problems (which could get worse if not corrected), but not really a major health concern by itself)

Scot

 

[jimscott]

I'm in the same "neck of the woods" as Scot and so far I can see a couple (old) pitchers of Dana's Delight that are flopping over. That may have to do with age and denseness of foliage, though.

 

[scottychaos]

*some* sarr floppage is just natural..
happens in the wild..usually to old pitchers..they just naturally fall down and cant get up..
but im seeing unusual floppage..much more than seems "natural"..
I agree it seems likely that media/water issues must be the culprit..
exactly *what* conditions causes it is uncertain though
in my case I suspect it too high of a water table, perhaps combined with excess/unusual heat,
and old peat..(this is the 3rd season without repotting)
I should probably do every 2nd year for repotting..(I dont think "every year" is necessary)

Scot

---------- Post added at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 AM ----------

Jim,
how is Leah doing?

Scot

 

[RL7836]

.... but in general they are lacking color, robustness, and vigor. Just very weak and pathetic overall.

So far, this year has been outstanding for my Sarrs. Good size, color, growth, etc. (as he knocks on wood). It has been the hottest early summer here that I can recall. The streak of 100*F temps a few weeks ago made headlines but it hasn't cooled off all that much since then - & I suspect that sitting on my blacktop driveway is not helping their temperatures. The main thing I noticed was my Sand Mtn S. oreophila flopped most of it's main pitchers during the heat & put out lots of phyllodia. This is earlier than usual for this activity. The outside cephs appear to be stressed but are still holding their own. A U. reniformis has also surprisingly continued to grow in the heat by the Sarrs (although I'm ready to yank it back in at any time).

This morning when I was watering my Sarracenia I had to put a sweater on.

Not here! We've been lucky to keep it much below 75-80*F at night (although the last front gave us temps in the mid-60's last night - finally).

Several years ago, I had a long discussion with a Florida nursery owner who told me of his troubles with fungal issues when it got very hot. Hot temps + high moisture definitely provides good conditions for fungus. Several years ago, Forbes had some of his sick Sarrs tested & they isolated a fungus - Fusarium wilt - iirc. Sadly, it seems the active ingredients in most retail anti-fungal treatments are no longer very effective against many pathogenic fungal diseases due to over use.

 

[back2eight]

rl7836, how are yours growing? In waterlogged conditions, or receiving top water only?

I'm reading these posts and beginning to believe that it was the waterlogged conditions I had mine in that was causing the problems, especially considering that the ones I never put into the pools look fine and normal. So, with that in mind, I will no longer be recommending to newbies that you can't give these too much water! It seems to be causing problems. I will update this in a few weeks after my plants have had a chance to recuperate from their waterlogged conditions and see if any new pitchers that form stay upright like they are supposed to.

 

[RL7836]

rl7836, how are yours growing? In waterlogged conditions, or receiving top water only?

I'll start by noting that I have a strong bias for top-watering.

However, my bias & preferences for top watering have taken a back seat to the reality of summer heat & my available time. With the heat we've had, I've had to water twice per day & some pots are still drying out more than I would like. Bottom line - many of my plants are now sitting in water for multiple days.

As an aside, I regularly treat all of my plants with the Av8tor1 manna - trichoderma....

Also - as Scot notes - some floppage is normal as the season progresses (although your's doesn't appear normal).

 

[Alexis]

I'd be buying a new batch of peat and perlite and starting from scratch. Something isn't right.

 

[back2eight]

since I've moved those out of the water, already they are looking better. New pitchers that are opening are standing up straight and tall. Like I said, all others that were not in the water were looking fine and normal, so sitting in water was the culprit.

 

[pictureaday]

since I've moved those out of the water, already they are looking better. New pitchers that are opening are standing up straight and tall. Like I said, all others that were not in the water were looking fine and normal, so sitting in water was the culprit.

Try to find some photos of meadowview! All of their pots are sitting in water, and mine have always been sitting in water (very high water too). Perhaps its the type of plastic being used, or some trace chemicals on the plastic? Or perhaps your rain water has recently been bad, but nothing that would be noticed unless your plants are sitting in it (where as normally anything bad might be washed away)... Can you run any tests on the water or did you dump the water already?

 

[Alexis]

Weird. Virtually everyone has them sitting in water!

 

[back2eight]

I know, thats why I tried it, but it appears to have been the problem with mine.

I have already dumped the water so can't test it. Wouldn't know how to anyway. If there was something testable, I wonder if it would still be in the soil in the pots? As far as the pots go, typical nursery growers pots, the cheap plastic kind, and I have all my plants in them not just the ones that were floppy.

It was actually Madowview's bogs that inspired me to grow mine like that. I was originally going to dig a bog and make mine just like theirs but ended up going the lazier route of using kiddie pools like Sarracenia Northwest does.

---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 AM ----------

Oh, and the fact that they are already looking better once I moved them out of waterlogged conditions definitely says that it was something to do with how I was growing them that was the culprit, but I wish I could figure out what since like you said, other people grow them waterlogged with great results. But if it was an issue like poor lighting or an infestation of some sort, moving them out of the water wouldn't have fixed that problem and I wouldn't see improvement in the plants.

 

[Aslam]

Were you keeping yours permanently waterlogged? I let my outdoor water trays dry out between fillings, then put water in until it's within 1-2" of the top of the media. I also empty the trays after unusually heavy rain, so the water level doesn't get too close to the top of the media. Maybe the tray system would work better if the water level was allowed to fluctuate a lot?

 

[back2eight]

yeah they were constantly waterlogged. I put holes halfway up the sides of the pools but they never drained permanently. My thoughts were that I could add water when it evaporated, but it never got a chance to because we get so much rain. So they were sitting in constant water, almost growing aquatically.

 

[tommyr]

I have some (not a lot) floppies as well and mine sit in about 1-2" of water all the time. It's been very hot here this summer, LOTS of mid to upper 90's and not too cool nights. My baby cobras seem to be doing o.k. so far. My pitchers were slow to start this spring also. They all look good now and everyone has bugs in them! They ate great this year so far!