A Cephalotus Collection fit for a King! [warning: picture heavy]

[Baylorguy]

Interseting,

So although it is still possible List has an Edens Black, it is HIGHLY unlikely.

Nice work Sir Kristoff.


[QUOTE=SirKristoff;1001554]Got my direct answer from the man himself this morning, i guess this proves it right here.
Listserv, hate to bust your pair, but you got scammed man

Hi Kris
I have not sent any overseas to date. Only about 20 people have received the plant direct from me, if you know who the person is he claims to have received it from (with phytosanitary?) I can confirm whether or not they got a plant from me, I have a database. If they won't confirm the source then we can't confirm whether it is likely or not.

I have been sending out plants for a few years now so we are getting to the stage where there may be some small plants available from other growers. Of course, with such a rare plant, to be sure of the parentage you would have to know the lineage, ie who got it from who...

A grower in Cornwall, England (Julie Jones) claims to have sent a plant to a grower in Malaysia (illegally) from an eBay sale earlier this year. Julie has been banned from both CPUK forums for illegal trading, so we are not sure if she is to be trusted as several growers have reported suspicions of trading fraud regarding swaps with her...

Have you got a link to the thread?
best wishes
Stephen

[jht-union]

That's a nice mix you got there, they look awesome sharing the same pot, i think they should be separated depending on the species, but i guess that's your little cephalotus mini bog!!!, the pics look great, good luck with them, they look great!

[Tony Paroubek]

My two bits.. cuz well doesn't everyone have their own two bits?

I could care less what he does with his money and what he buys for his collection.

I do however care greatly about mislabelled/ID'd plants etc.. There are way too many of these plants floating around in all genera.

I am puzzled though as to why the label says black maroon Cephalotus but yet it is claimed to be 'Eden Black'. The label doesn't say that so that makes me wonder if this is a case where the grower had a nice dark clone and was sold as a dark clone but the buyer then thinks they can call it by something else because it looks similar. The whole notion that you can call a plant by a clone name simply because it fits the description has irked me from the beginning. I hate hate hate that concept and in my opinion adds to the bogus junk out there.

Anyway.. good luck with your plants, but please be careful about named clones and distributing material as such unless you can verify personally they are correctly identified. It is not good enough to say so and so knows so and so and they said blah. In the case of 'Eden Black' it would be very easy to find out the details of this plant and your selling source by emailing the originator directly.

Tony

[Listserv.org]

As a grower, I'm sure that Stephen Morley has had his contributions to the hobby and such, but honestly, I couldn't give a sundew's dew-speck about his personal stamp of approval. My source has been friends with Morley for the past 15 years and obtained his stock plants from him, and that's all that matters to me. I'm now in possession of one of said stock plants. I see a thinly-veiled attempt by some posters on this site to use this attack to try to get me to divulge the name of my source, but I see through everything-- and I'm not going to talk.

Just to give people a little bit of background about Eden Black: it's been around for years, if not decades. Morley's plants have been in circulation longer than I've been alive (that doesn't say much), and that's never been any news, nor anything worthy of note in and of itself. The reason it's piqued people's interests in the last couple of years (about 5 years ago) is that Morley himself recently OFFICIALLY registered the plants as "Eden Black" to the ICPS cultivar list (which I suspect was some kind of plan for his own financial benefit). The plants themselves are out there if you know who to get them from-- and that, I do.

I will be taking more photos of an infinitely rarer cultivar of Cephalotus Follicularis later today. This new, and previously unknown strain of Cephalotus will be known as "Golden Clumper" in accordance to my source. To the morons that are putting words into my mouth, I never claimed for it to be a separate species. However, it is, in fact, a previously unknown cultivar known to anyone in the world.

If you carefully inspect the pattern of the branching of the pitchers, you will see that they actually shoot out in little tripods, not single strands of pitchers. This gives it an extremely vigorous clumping pattern. The Golden color of the plant is actually quite different from normal typicals as well. You will see that the color tone is MUCH lighter than normal Cephalotus clones to the point of being a yellow color.

[Not a Number]

Stephen's communication just shows that the plant in question did not come directly from Stephen.

It's still possible, though unlikely, that divisions have made it overseas by second or third generations growers. If one of these growers has managed to propagate via tissue culture then no phytosanitary certificates are needed for most countries if the plant is still in the flask when imported.

Without the provenance of the plants origin however claims to the authenticity will always be suspect.

The cultivar registration description took pains to list the exact color shade match to the Royal Horticultural Society's colour chart. Of course since color is dependent on growing and lighting conditions then this would be a more reliable method to confirm that it is indeed the cultivar rather than exclude.

[Listserv.org]

I am puzzled though as to why the label says black maroon Cephalotus but yet it is claimed to be 'Eden Black'.

Every grower will have their own conventions of labeling plants in their personal collection, as I'm sure everyone here is aware. Those are actually my own personal labels, and not those of the previous owner. You can't see them from this angle, but I have stickers on the pots themselves with models of Italian cars-- to give my collection a more personal touch and to be more easily recognizable by myself. These are, after all, my specimens of the highest grade.

[RL7836]

Funny how this reminds me of a "Timmy" situation!
It is hard to even take this sort of thing seriously.

In view of recent, related events, this doesn't merit a legitimate response;
and apparently nor does providing advice as requested on previous posts. There seems to be no point in it any longer.

This situation is only one of many examples of how things have really deteriorated here lately.

I disagree. Since before I came here, there is a natural ebb & flow on the forum as people arrive, others depart & some just fade away as their 'real life' issues surface & demand attention. While this particular situation may be unique, one person or one situation doesn't make or break a forum. The forum is a collection of contributors. With only a few exceptions, the forums are self-policing with the mods periodically stepping in to shove someone (or some situation) back in line.

It is sad really, as this was once a very nice place to share and associate with other experienced and knowledgeable growers. At least that used to be part of the cross-section of active members here. The type of members who I think added a lot to this place.

It still is a nice place "with other experienced and knowledgeable growers".

Maybe it is just me, but lately this feels more like the kids table at Thanksgiving , than it does a forum of both new, and experienced, dedicated growers.

That is all part of the ebb & flow of an internet forum - a new kid buys a VFT, kills it, comes on asking for help (rarely having read any book, Barry's faq, or searched past posts). Two to three weeks later, the same kid is now an 'expert' handing out advice in new threads. Personally, it didn't take me long after arriving to realize that all responses are not created equal ...

It is things like this that have happened lately, that make me think my opinions, advice and knowledge are no longer needed here (if they ever were). I certainly appreciated that of others, and valued their input in time past. But what I see going on here, well, I just don't understand it. Nor is it what I came here for.

From what I've seen, your advice is still valued nor should the value of this advice be assessed based on one member's acceptance of it ...

Listserv.org has rejected more good advice (both public & private) than either of us probably realize (but that is his right & his prerogative). He obviously places a much higher value on information from the seller of these plants than he does from those on the forum (who have no vested, self-interest). Over time, this may change (or it may not).

[Tony Paroubek]

So you bought an 'Eden Black' removed the label which supposedly identified it as such and labelled it as something else? Now I am really confused..

Just to give people a little bit of background about Eden Black: it's been around for years, if not decades. Morley's plants have been in circulation longer than I've been alive (that doesn't say much), and that's never been any news, nor anything worthy of note in and of itself. The reason it's piqued people's interests of the last couple of years (about 5 years ago) is that Morley himself recently OFFICIALLY registered the plants as "Eden Black" to the ICPS cultivar list (which I suspect was some kind of plan for his own financial benefit). The plants themselves are out there if you know who to get them from-- and that, I do.

Hmm hate to disagree.. oh wait no I don't, because if you are going to come in here claiming you know all the facts, then you better be sure you have the facts correct!

By Stephens words himself, 'Eden Black' was grown from seed. And as of January 2008 it had only been distributed to 3 other European growers.
http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index...&hl=eden&st=20
March 2007 Post #26 by Stephen "I grew it from seed"

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index...=25165&hl=eden
Jan. 2008 Post #1 by Stephen "I have been concerned recently over a potential fake 'Eden Black' incident.
A European grower has told me that he was sold a small 'Eden Black' plant by a UK grower. As the originator of this clone, and with the knowledge that it is only been distributed to 3 UK growers, none of whom have sold on their plants or any parts of their plants it seems to me that something fishy is afoot!"

I am glad you like CP's and Cephs. Enjoy them! but please.. cut the crap.