Rhizome rot or normal aging?

[joossa]

Hey guys,

I started repotting and dividing my Sarrs today, which ended up being more work than it originally seemed.... Anyway, when I finally came to my leuco, I found that the "old" portion of the rhizome was soft and brown.

Here is a diagram I made:

I ended up cutting away the old portion and scraping off the soft brown tissue that slightly stretched into the opposite side which was branched in two. This forced me to divide the two ends. These two branches contain two very healthy growth points at the ends and one other growth point in between. The rhizome's tissue in this area was white, firm, and healthy.

Now to my questions: It is normal for the "old" portion of the rhizome to became soft and brown after some time? Do you guys think this was truly rhizome rot or normal aging?

Usually, the old end of my other Sarrs becomes darker, but does not become soft.


Thanks!

 

[GrowinOld]

Normal rot!

In my experience, this is normal aging, perhaps a bit faster than it should occur, however it does happen. Usually rhizomes get much bigger and branch out more before the older portions die off and either dry out or "rot away", however as I said, I have had it happen as you have experienced also.
You might watch your moisture during dormancy, as it may have contributed to the older area dieing off before the younger shoots had a chance to form better. That, or possibly a short growing season. Both of these have been the cause for mine doing this (usually happening only with young or recently acquired plants), however I am sure others will have other experiences and ideas of which to share.

You did well to clean off the rotten areas. I usually dust with a fungicide and keep the plant a bit drier (or warmer) to help it get a good start. And again, do watch how moist you are keeping things in the future. (Just a thought.)

Good luck.

 

[cpman]

Sounds like rhizome rot. The old part shouldn't be rotting like that. I have a 20 year old Leuco that has numerous growth points. it also has a meandering rhizome that stretches for a good 12 inches long of old dead tissue that has become hard as it died back. You did well to cut out the old tissue from the new . You might also want to dust it off with a fungicide before replanting it. Also try controlling your watering during dormancy the next time as well.

 

[Rob]

i have the same problem except the flesh is brown and hard and the rhizome jus keeps getting bigger but not the plant itself. should I try "budding" the rhizome?

 

[Baylorguy]

I think concerns about rot during dormancy because the media is too wet are unfounded... as long as your plant is outdoors and is open to the air and sunlight. Much of the rot during dormancy is due to poor airflow (plants are covered, kept too wet in a basement, etc), which obviously should not be an issue if your plants are outside. There are Sarracenia that spend much of the winter submerged in the wild. I've also had entire mini bogs flood in winter and have not lost a single plant.

Part of my rhizomes will at times turn brown and dry out, but this is part of the natural growth process.

Phil

 

[Exo]

BTW.....that kinda looks like a rhizome that has caught on fire.

 

[GrowinOld]

Sarracenia grown in the wild will indeed survive conditions that could easily kill off plants that are potted or planted in an artificial bog. Nature has a wonderful system going that is unique and delicate, and when we try to recreate an environment, I think the best we can hope for is to come close.
From what I have seen, what a plant may endure in nature may not be what it can endure in an artificial environment.

Without knowing what conditions your plants are under (other than "potted"), it is hard to say for sure what the cause may be. And "unfounded or not", I can only tell others what I have experienced and what I have found to be the causes in my case with my plants.
Perhaps environmental situations in California, Texas and Illinois are different enough to have more than only one possible cause for the situation of a rhizome rotting. In my past experience, my plants rhizomes either get old and "solidify" (or simply deteriorate) when the old portions die off from age, or they succumb to the older portions rotting into mush.

In my experience of them rotting, poor drainage and too much moisture were at fault...(almost always during cool/cold weather), especially on the few occurrences when I have had the older portions of a Sarracenia rhizome rotting or dieing off prematurely. To me, the plant you drew is indicating that conditions are not ideal, as the young portions of the rhizome should not be rotting off also.

I will agree that it is possible that the plants are not getting enough sun or airflow (especially since I don't know all the conditions under which the plant is growing), however knowing it is growing in a pot leads me to believe that the growing medium is likely too moist (plastic pots hold a LOT of moisture in the growing medium), especially if temps are cold.

From what I have read over the years, it is usually recommended to keep potted CP's "slightly moist" and NOT at all wet during dormancy, because too much moisture leads to rot. (I don't know how being concerned about too much moisture would be unfounded, but apparently Phil is more of an expert at growing plants than I am, and since he brought it up the way he did, you may want to take the opinion and information I have offered here with a grain of salt.)

Well, again good luck.
From what I have learned through years of growing plants, there is seldom only one possible cause for things, as environments are made up of many variables that create a balance (or imbalance).
As a grower, I believe it is up to each one of us to determine what the cause of things is, because no one knows the environment and conditions our plants are under better than us!

[I think it would be best for me to "vacation" a bit longer than I have! Me thinks I have returned too soon!]

 

[Baylorguy]

Growin Old brings up a good point. What conditions are your plants growing in? Are they outside?

I also agree that what works for me may not work for others... I have my Sarracenia in very large minibogs, so there is a lot of surface area for evaporation. As mentioned, I've never had a problem with rot, and I have come home some days during winter where it was raining all day and there is a waterfall dumping water from the side of my pots because they were overflowing.

Phil

 

[Joseph Clemens]

For almost eight years, when I lived in the Pacific Northwest (Oak Harbor, Washington), I grew all my adult Sarracenia in gallon size nursery "cans" or larger, and I kept them floating in plastic childeren's wading pools. I almost never lost a plant to rhizome rot, especially after I began using shredded redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) bark as the main media ingredient.

 

[joossa]

Thanks for the replies guys!

The S. leucophylla are potted in a plastic pot. They are growing in 50:50 peat and perlite with a top dressing of sphagnum. For the most part, they have been kept inside my unheated garage since December. However, when the temperature hangs around 32 or higher for more than one night, I take them outside as long as weather permits. If it gets under 30, I bring them in.

I asked here because to me, it did not seem like the typical descriptions of rhizome rot. Usually, I have read that the rhizome turns all brown and gooey. I have never had rhizome rot in any of my Sarracenia, so I am not 100% sure what it truly looks/feels like.
Mine was similar to moist newspaper.... sort of on the dry side, definitely not gooey at all, and broke off with with similar properties as moist newspaper.

I've taken some of your suggestions.... I have applied some neem oil fungicide. Additionally, all of my plants have been taken outside due to better weather conditions.

Hopefully all will be okay.

Thanks!

 

[Joseph Clemens]

Do you mean to say you took your plants into a dark, stuffy, garage? And they've basically been in the dark, and with limited ventilation? Yeeikes!

 

[joossa]

Do you mean to say you took your plants into a dark, stuffy, garage? And they've basically been in the dark, and with limited ventilation? Yeeikes!

...been doing it for the past four years and never had any problems.

 

[Joseph Clemens]

But, in Palmdale, you'll likely never have temperatures colder than Southern Sarracenia species native habitat, though they are more vulnerable in pots than in their native wetlands.

 

[richs]

I would not worry about bringing in your plants in the winter. I believe what you recieved was a warning from your plants - I had grown VFT's in a terrarium under lights, without a dormacy period for 2 years when I first started growing - they looked GREAT..after talking to a more seasoned grower who informed me that if I kept doing that, more than likely I would kill the plants with kindness, and unless I gave them a rest I would lose them. Sure enough, they began to dwindle, so I put them outside that winter - terrarium and all - under a protected area and re potted them that spring, and I've still got em! I know your situation is not the same, however, when a plant is subjected to movement from one place to another or not paying attention to dormacy needs can REALLY screw their growth, flowering and overall health up. I say with all plants, including carnivores..find a place where they are happy and leave em alone. They can take our cold temps here on the West coast much easier than back east, our winters are never that harsh - I've had plants freeze solid in their pots here and have had no losses - give them as much sun as possible, winter is just as important as spring, and just because the plants are dormant ( in the nursery business, it's funny how some people are led to believe that sunlight is not as important when herbaceous perennials and deciduous plants go dormant. Plants that are in the ground have adapted to the light changes, and I could go on forever about that, but won't. Any sun lovers I have in pots are moved to sunnier locations in winter and left there ) they still need a good 5 hours, just think of them as ( not trying to sound funny ) coma patients - they still have their needs. Palmdale can get cold in the winter - high deserts do, but when temps rebound during the day - brief freezes won't ( or should'nt ) hurt them.