Sarr purpurea ssp. venosa dormancy questions.

[Keith]

Hey everybody, this is sort of an opinion question but a pitcher plant's life may be on the line here.....so I greatly appreciate the feedback!
I currently have two S. purp ssp. venosa plants that are wondering what my plans are for dealing with an Iowa winter. They are potted in 10+ gal. "bog" pots which have summered outdoors with various other "hardier" bog plants. Due to the severe winters here in Iowa, I am devising a cold storage area in our unfinished basement for the bogs.
I am sure that, for at liest the purpurea, this will be an ok resting place for the winter. However I am known to "fix" things that aren't broken on a frequent basis. Now back to the pitcher plants: How much liberty can be taken with the dormancy requirements of the ssp. venosa?
I would like to attempt to keep the smaller of these plants in a greenhouse with my Drosera that will NOT be getting any special dormancy treatment. I don't know that my intent is to skip dormancy, but more a greedy experiment to enable me to enjoy the plant up-close and personal on a daily basis.
Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with keeping ssp. venosa in a terrarium or like environment through what should be it's dormancy?

Here is a photo of the larger plant

 

[Wire Man]

Purps are tough plants. It should be able to survive outside with minimal protection.

 

[Keith]

I though the ssp. venosa was a little more "warm blooded" than the ssp. purpurea? We almost always sustain temps in the 10's and teens every winter.

 

[MICKEY]

unheated basement with some light should work fine , as long as it goes down in the 40f's

 

[scottychaos]

Is the greenhouse heated?
if so, I wouldn't keep a purp in it for the winter..much too warm..
your basement idea sounds best..
how cool will it be in the basement over the winter?
ideally you want 35 to 45 degrees all winter..
If its not much cooler than the heated parts of your house..say 65 degrees in the basement,
that is too warm..

so, more info needed!
winter temps in the greenhouse? winter temps in the basement?

Scot

 

[Keith]

@scotty: Yes the greenhouse is to be a tropical paradise year-round. It is basically a rack shelf in a "bag". This is where everything w/out a dormancy requirement will be for winter. Averages 85 degrees during the day with a drop into the low 70's and 60's at night. Humidity is fairly stable at 90%.

The basement measured out to 40-45 degrees last winter and that was with no design to keep the "cool" in. This year I am going to work out some sort of enclosure to keep the cool in.

I know the sarr's including the purps need dormancy, but recently I have read a few things that suggested ssp. venosa for terrarium use. They seemed to suggest that it might be possible for the plant to still achieve some sort of a dormancy/rest while in less than ideal conditions for it.

 

[Wire Man]

Honestly the subspecies can handle the cold equally as well, which is one reason I don't believe the subspecies designation is invalid. "ssp. venosa" ranges up to New Jersey, which can get pretty cold.

 

[scottychaos]

Basement good.
Greenhouse bad.

I know the sarr's including the purps need dormancy, but recently I have read a few things that suggested ssp. venosa for terrarium use. They seemed to suggest that it might be possible for the plant to still achieve some sort of a dormancy/rest while in less than ideal conditions for it.

Ideal = 35 to 45 all winter.
less than ideal = 45 to 55 all winter.
So far from ideal it's not even on the same planet as ideal = inside a tropical greenhouse all winter.

Scot

 

[kulamauiman]

dunno. I see differences with cold requirements for purpurea purpurea vs purpurea venosa. purpurea venosa and inter population hybrids seem to do well for me in my are with really limited cold or anything that can compare to a long cool winter. OTOH purpurea purpurea looks like I might need to pop into the refrigerator to keep happy. does well for a year or two at the most then declines. I cant say that one tolerates more cold than the other, but sure looking like one might need more chilling hours than the other to survive and bloom.

 

[Keith]

@Kula: I was curious what your local conditions do for "winter" over there? Is there any noticible temp or light changes? Would you say your purps from either sub-species slow down or stop growth for your "winter"?
I am very interested in your situation there in the tropics!

 

[kulamauiman]

Good question. Sub tropical location. But high elevation and micro climate that included morning and evening sun blocked by two mountain ranges. Helps me to get short days. And cool climate. But not constant 40s in the winter. Between zone 10-9. Overnight will drop down to mid 30's at the coldest but days back up to 60-70 range.

Right now they are going dormant pitchers drying up. Phyllodia forming. Everything slowing down. Purps slow down and don't lose pitchers

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AA2wAecOMLM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[SEELE1]

Sorry to interrupt; Question about this species!

I have one, but the leaves no longer take the funnel shape... They remain flat and grass-like, always green... Not even noticeable venation...

Lack of light? Some sort of winter dormancy that abandons production of traps?

 

[Keith]

@ Kula: Thanks so much for the vid response! What a collection!
How long generally before the newly located plants are not "confused" as to the season?

@ SEELE: Sounds like a question for the pro's. I would guess a lighting/ dormancy problem for sure.

 

[kulamauiman]

@ Kula: Thanks so much for the vid response! What a collection!
How long generally before the newly located plants are not "confused" as to the season?

Might take a year in my conditions to re sync with the "real seasons". I try to move them out in the summer. hoping for long days, warm conditions to be about the same as grow room. But dunno. some times it works some times it doesn't. Plants have their own ideas sometimes

@ SEELE: same species as in S. purpurea venosa? very odd. the only ones I know that my phylloidia or phyllodiform leaves are flava, oreophilla, leucophylla and rubra complex respectively, I think most people would need to see a pic or have a better description of your growing area to have a better chance of making any sort of diagnosis.

 

[scottychaos]

Sorry to interrupt; Question about this species!

I have one, but the leaves no longer take the funnel shape... They remain flat and grass-like, always green... Not even noticeable venation...

Lack of light? Some sort of winter dormancy that abandons production of traps?

How long have you had it?
where is it growing?
light levels?
has it received any kind of dormancy since you have had it?

Scot

 

[SEELE1]

Ok, pic for an accurate diagnosis...
As you see, leaves are flat but rather abundant...
I has been receiving less sunlight than it used too since "the thing" ate all my other plants...
I have moved it to a sunnier location now...
No dormancy so far (bought it in May, if I recall right), live in Boca del Rio, Mexico, temperatures this time of the year are about 25 to 30 Celsius...

 

[scottychaos]

Ok, pic for an accurate diagnosis...
As you see, leaves are flat but rather abundant...
I has been receiving less sunlight than it used too since "the thing" ate all my other plants...
I have moved it to a sunnier location now...
No dormancy so far (bought it in May, if I recall right), live in Boca del Rio, Mexico, temperatures this time of the year are about 25 to 30 Celsius...

interesting..
Do you know where it was living before you got it?
just a guess: If its been growing in Mexico for several years, without a proper dormancy at all, for years, that could cause this kind of behavior..maybe!
Its a plant WAY out of its native range..if dormancy hasn't been accounted for, it could be on its last legs..
or..the phyllodia could be the plant attempting to give itself a "forced dormancy" because it cant hold out any longer..
what ever it is, I dont think its good..and its most likely related to it being in a climate far too warm for it..
it cant take the heat..it craves cold..

Do you know its history for the past few years?
and, how do you provide dormancy for other Sarrs in your collection?
If you have a system set up for dormancy, I would just try to give it a dormancy with your other plants for this winter..
that might "snap it out it"..

Scot

 

[SEELE1]

Do you know where it was living before you got it?

Xalapa I think... Something a bit closer to the US climate than here...

and, how do you provide dormancy for other Sarrs in your collection?

The only other I had (an 8 inch S. flava) was eaten along with all my other CP's...

If you have a system set up for dormancy...

Well, I read in another thread that Sarrs are ready for dormancy when the "winter leaves" appear, and according to this the flattened leaves ARE the winter leaves...

So, I plan on following this:

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However I have doubts about uprooting the whole plant... So maybe I'll just make the fungicide, flush the pot with it, cut the leaves, ziplock-bag it and put it in the fridge until March...

 

[Keith]

Good luck SEELE! I hope it works out and hope you can post/repost to let us know the outcome! I am wintering my purps for the first time this year and have my doubts so we are learning together. I thought I'd mention that I am a fan of siggi's stuff on on bootoob also.

 

[Keith]

Refering to my dilemma in the first post of this thread, I think I have found my solution. Instead of risking either of the two purps in my bog pots, yesterday I found a sarr/vft combo pack at lowes that were sold as dormant plants. After potting them up this is what they look like.
(the unlabeled pot in the center)

I figures these plants seem to have been in dormancy for at liest a while and were starting to try and grow again on the shelf in the middle of December, so maybe I can enjoy a sarr through the winter and pop it in the fridge for a summer dormancy. Hopefully the sarr is a nice purp which is what the package implied.