Do Darlingtonia need cool roots?

[fredg]

I have been monitoring the root temperatures on my Darlingtoia colonies this summer. As part of this I seperated the stolon of a young plant from the Mother colony ( it was in the wrong place) and planted it up in a half tray.

Here is the plant on June 16th.

As it is a half tray it has wider fluctuations in temperature than the larger trays. The maximum root temperature I recorded was 32.4C - 90F.

The same plant on September 8th

As can be seen, the tray is black and the plant sits in water, the trays are flooded.

 

[CorneliusSchrute]

Always impressive, Fred. Again, spitting in the face of conventional wisdom: I love it! Makes you wonder if anything "conventional" really exists regarding cobras.

Have you ever grown cobras in anything but live sphagnum? I ask because all that "wisdom" mentioned above always states cool roots, oxygenated water, and/or pure sphag. Just wondering if you ever bucked all three of those points.

I do have Darlingtonia seedlings growing in a tray of water with no refrigeration or water movement, but they don't sit in full sun: they are fully shaded. You are inspiring me to try them outside. As of now, my full sun cobras all have a recirculating water system which we have discussed before.

 

[Gigantea]

That's pretty cool. I'm still not ready to try them here. I still get soil/root temps over 100F here and its September.

 

[mato]

Is this the Siskiyou or coastal variety?

 

[corky]

thats great growth Fred,unlike some growers you make things simple,think some people like to over complicate things

 

[fredg]

Is this the Siskiyou or coastal variety?

That half tray is an unknown, it's the clone I've had for 30 years. However, Siuslaw and Othello are in the monitoring set.

 

[kulamauiman]

I am growing in tray. Kept flooded. Both terra cotta pots and plastic. Mix is not pure sphagnum but a mix of lava rock and stuff. Top dresses with live sphagnum. But I am in a mild climate.

 

[fredg]

I am growing in tray. Kept flooded. Both terra cotta pots and plastic. Mix is not pure sphagnum but a mix of lava rock and stuff. Top dresses with live sphagnum. But I am in a mild climate.

By the looks of it you need bigger pots, why not try planting them direct into trays?

 

[kulamauiman]

By the looks of it you need bigger pots, why not try planting them direct into trays?

Given time I suspect they will just spill out of pots and take over

 

[Wire Man]

This gives me a little hope for my seedlings surviving VA summers.

 

[Alexis]

Ah, the cobra cold roots myth! It amazes me that people mess about with ice cubes and water pumps.

My cobras live in full sun and are kept in conditions no different from sarracenia. They are in big black pots and some are in peat/perlite and some are in live sphagnum. They sit in about 5cm of water. Summer temperatures in the greenhouse reach 100F.

I've repotted them in the middle of summer before and the sphagnum has been so hot, steam was rising from it. They're as tough as old boots.

The only plant that gets too hot in my experience are cold-temperate butterworts. Even sarracenia purpurea ssp. purpurea can take it hot.

I think the more plants you have, the less you mollycoddle them as individuals and the happier they are when left to their own devices.

 

[RL7836]

As it is a half tray it has wider fluctuations in temperature than the larger trays. The maximum root temperature I recorded was 32.4C - 90F.

What are the normal nighttime lows?

 

[fredg]

Ah, the cobra cold roots myth!

 

[mato]

So, everyone who thinks this is a myth, do you all have location data for your plants? I will tell you flat out I've seen the difference between the mountain and coastal varieties, as far as heat tolerance is concerned.

 

[fredg]

So, everyone who thinks this is a myth, do you all have location data for your plants? I will tell you flat out I've seen the difference between the mountain and coastal varieties, as far as heat tolerance is concerned.

Is your data available?

 

[RL7836]

I applaud Fred for diligently collecting temperature data over the course of the summer. This type of information certainly helps to get us closer to understanding the needs & limits of Darlingtonia.

Ah, the cobra cold roots myth! It amazes me that people mess about with ice cubes and water pumps.

My cobras live in full sun and are kept in conditions no different from sarracenia. They are in big black pots and some are in peat/perlite and some are in live sphagnum. They sit in about 5cm of water. Summer temperatures in the greenhouse reach 100F.

I've had many permutations of this discussion with people. What I've found quite consistent with these discussions is that the people who assert that cobras do not need cool temperatures - come from places where cool temperatures are the norm - especially cool nighttime temps. Just once, I'd love to see the originator of a thread like this come from a non-mountainous, mid-atlantic state (or any of the gulf-coast states). Even outside these horribly Darlingtonia-unfriendly areas, success with cobras is rare in most of the southern & eastern USA. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised at this. If it is not the temperatures - are there any other potentially-viable theories why no one has success here? I suspect that there would have been at least a handful of reasonably competent growers within the legions of those who've tried & failed ....

 

[fredg]

Thank you Ron.

There are several myths commonly spouted, three come to mind instantly
1. Darlingtonia need cool roots.
2. If allowed to flower and seed, Dionaea die.
3. Cephalotus cannot stand in water, they get root rot.

This is not the thread for 2 and 3 however.

Several growers are now proposing that a pathogen is responsible for the demise of Darlingtonia. Jeff Dallas of Sarracenia Northwest has proposed that a fungus infection such as Phytopthora is responsible.he has taken plants showing a 'typical' root rot and by " dipping them in Tebuconazole fungicide (Bayer Disease Control)" all have survived. Others propose a bacterial cause of the plants demise. There's a trial someone in one of your Darlingtonia unfriendly areas could try.

My "Othello" was given to me about three years ago by a grower who could grow the plant to almost maturity and then it would collapse in the summer heat. This occured with him several times, the plant only surviving due to the small plants on the stolons ( luckily "Othello" is very prolific with stolons).
My own plant is thriving and has formed a nice colony. The original grower has now adopted my method and his plant is performing much better. I supposed it's possible that the antiseptic qualities of sphagnum is having an effect here. Again it needs more people to try growing in trays of live sphagnum.

Comments?

 

[kulamauiman]

I applaud Fred for diligently collecting temperature data over the course of the summer. This type of information certainly helps to get us closer to understanding the needs & limits of Darlingtonia.

I've had many permutations of this discussion with people. What I've found quite consistent with these discussions is that the people who assert that cobras do not need cool temperatures - come from places where cool temperatures are the norm - especially cool nighttime temps. Just once, I'd love to see the originator of a thread like this come from a non-mountainous, mid-atlantic state (or any of the gulf-coast states). Even outside these horribly Darlingtonia-unfriendly areas, success with cobras is rare in most of the southern & eastern USA. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised at this. If it is not the temperatures - are there any other potentially-viable theories why no one has success here? I suspect that there would have been at least a handful of reasonably competent growers within the legions of those who've tried & failed ....

More or less sums things up for me. Night temps drop down to 50-60F range spring -fall. High 30s in winter. I really doubt same system I am using would work down at a lower elevation where temp range day and night are 90- mid 70s

 

[fredg]

More or less sums things up for me. Night temps drop down to 50-60F range spring -fall. High 30s in winter. I really doubt same system I am using would work down at a lower elevation where temp range day and night are 90- mid 70s

The question is, why do you doubt it would work at the higher temperatures? Could it possibly be because you've been told for years that it can't?

I was informed last week that Dr Leo Song published years ago that the maximum temperature for Darlingtonia roots is 81-83F.
On this summer's data this is clearly not correct.

 

[kulamauiman]

Don't think temp is the only factor. More so I think it has more to do with what humidity is doing at those higher temps. In my situation the warmer costal areas have very constant high humidity. Warm temps high humidity become good environment for the fungal pathogens. At home when it get warm in the day humidity drops.