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Can over-feeding a heliamphora cause the pitchers to develop brown spots?

I beleive I may have gotten overzealous when I got my Maxsea for Christmas and over-did it on my Heliamphora heterodoxa x minor. The pitcher I sprayed the most seems to be browning a lot (I also attempted to give it some ground up betta pellets in RO water, I know rookie mistake to give it so much food I'm used to South American drosera). I will try to get some pics up soon.

Note: The most browning is inside the pitcher right above where the water would drain, which is why (I hope) and I assume it is from over-feeding, and not a fungal infection.
 
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I've had gluttonous Sarracenia catch enough prey that they ended up browning. Some growers place mesh in pitchers in prime traps to prevent this. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that same to happen in this situation. As always, keep an eye on them, but unless you notice more brown spots on more pitchers you probably don't need to worry. If you like, you can always dilute things.

Keep us posted! :)
 
I've attempted to give my helis osmocote pellets but each time it has resulted in the top of the pitcher browning soon afterward. The pitchers still last a long time though and I can't tell if the fertilizer is actually helping the plant or not.
 
I do have the Maxsea diluted in a spray bottle (1/2 tsp per gallon dilution), although the pitcher that is browning got fed a lot compared to the other pitchers.
 
The Golden Rule of Horticulture is: if something you do results in damage to the plant, then abandon the practice.
 
The Golden Rule of Horticulture is: if something you do results in damage to the plant, then abandon the practice.

After doing a bit of reading, it seems that most people don't feed their Heliamphora (unless they are veterans of the craft). I guess I'll just let it sit there and be pretty.
 
I'm certainly going to let mine be. Both of them are finally growing new mature pitchers after 6 months of stagnant growth or rapid juvenile pitcher growth.
 
Many Heliamphora need regular feedings or they wont grow well at all.
Most species should grow like weeds if happy and well fed.

If pushing hard I recommend you don't feed all the pitchers at once.
That way those that are fed may be damaged but the resultant growth spurt is well worth it.

As a general rule, regular monthly feedings with fish pellets (I prefer medium cichlid pellets) is all you need for good sustained growth.

hth's
Av
 
As a general rule, regular monthly feedings with fish pellets (I prefer medium cichlid pellets) is all you need for good sustained growth.

Do you have a rule of thumb for dilution/quantity? What brand pellet do you use? It would be interesting to get it into mass N per pitcher terms to give people an idea. Plus I'm just curious how much Nitrogen we're talking, here. ;) If they don't report the quantity N (though that sounds unlikely) I would be happy to analyze some.
 
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  • #10
I use Maxsea 16-16-16, with the ratio being slightly over 1/2 tsp per gallon. The pitcher holds approximately the same amount of fluid as an eye dropper, perhaps a bit less (this pitcher got spat out right after I recieved the plant).

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Also, I just gave a few little drops from the spray bottle into the pitcher, but I can't remember exactly how much.
 
  • #11
Alright, numbers I like! Any guess as to the volume of the eye dropper? I'll guess a mL here. This'll be a rough calculation, but I'm interested in ranges that people are using.

16-16-16 fertilizer is 16% (0.16) N by mass. I can't find percentages (they may be on the back of the container though!) but the fertilizer contains urea, nitrate, and ammonium; we'll calculate by bulk N.

We also don't know the weight of a 1/2 tsp of fertilizer, but we can estimate bulk density to get us a rough number. According to google/amazon the size of a 1.5lb container of this fertilizer comes in a 6.5"x3.5"x3.3 (75.075 in^3) container. Let's convert that to something reasonable: 680g comes in a 1230 cm^3 container. Assuming a full container (which is a bit of a fudge factor, but we're going back-of-the-envelope at the moment!) that gives us a bulk density of 0.553 g/cm^3. This is the same as 0.553g/mL. Now we're getting somewhere!

A 1/2tsp = 2.46mL. Volume used times bulk density (mass over volume) gives us the mass used: 1.36g in this case!

A gallon of water is ~3785mL. So let's put it all together.

(mass used) X (%N total) / (volume water to dilute) = Concentration of N in solution (g/mL)
(1.36g fert ) X (0.16 ) / (3785mL water) = 5.75e^-5 gN/mL

At 1e^6ug / 1g we can convert that to 57.5ugN/mL

At our assumed added volume of 1mL that is, of course, 57.5ugN added per pitcher.

I'd love to hear what some of the rest of you are doing and compile a working list. And as always, feel free to double check my math -- it is getting late. ;) If anyone is interested I can calculate out some points of reference like agricultural N addition rates, N content of a few types of plants tissues and soils.

Really what I've learned from this experience is that I've been on vacation too long. :jester:
 
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  • #12
Do you have a rule of thumb for dilution/quantity? What brand pellet do you use? It would be interesting to get it into mass N per pitcher terms to give people an idea. Plus I'm just curious how much Nitrogen we're talking, here. ;) If they don't report the quantity N (though that sounds unlikely) I would be happy to analyze some.

I prefer Hikari Cichlid Staple (green bag)
The amount is very dynamic, depends greatly on pitcher size, growth rate, feeding schedule, temperature, species etc.

7 or 8 pellets for a full sized, actively growing pitcher is not uncommon.
Most times I don't count, just sprinkle

There is no one right answer of course

With the fish pellets there is going to be some delay from feeding to result, keep the faith.

I've used maxsea 16:16:16 many times, 1 tsp per gallon.
I'll use a turkey baster on larger pitchers... but again, very dynamic depending on conditions

IMHO, the pellets are better in the long term.... but its not really an either/or, Ill use both on occasion

Only speaking for myself, YMMV

Av
 
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  • #13
Seems that there are actually three new pitchers forming. Looks like I'm due for a growth spurt!

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Also, where do you get your trichoderma?
 
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  • #14
I prefer ampacbiotech.com's products

ask for Kelly... she is familiar with the needs of cp'ers
 
  • #15
I use Maxsea 16-16-16, with the ratio being slightly over 1/2 tsp per gallon. The pitcher holds approximately the same amount of fluid as an eye dropper, perhaps a bit less (this pitcher got spat out right after I recieved the plant).

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I just gave a few little drops from the spray bottle into the pitcher, but I can't remember exactly how much.

I cannot imagine that rate causing any damage whatsoever. I would be on the lookout for another potential cause of the problem, such as root rot, too high of temp, or low humidity.
 
  • #16
When I was taking the plant out to inspect it, my basement was pretty dry at the time, so I was likely doing more damage than preventing it. Since it was the pitcher that held the smallest amount of water, I suppose it could have just gotten stressed from going from humid to dry a lot. Either way, the problem doesn't seem to be spreading, or really affecting the plant at all. And like I said, I see three new pitchers coming :)

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Also, thank you Av8tor1
 
  • #17
A little update

Here are some quick pictures I took of the pitcher progress, unfortunately they aren't too focused. Suprisingly, despite having taken the pitcures only a day ago, there has been visible growth progress. You can also see the largest leaf on one of my D. spiralis, which I feel like pointing out because I'm proud of it :D There would be a larger leaf on my other spiralis (not very visible in the pic), but I lopped it off in the name of leaf cuttings.
12473660_730396507091825_8477119614173582592_o.jpg

12493956_730396510425158_2692277932806984745_o.jpg
 
  • #18
Based on size, I would feed those pitchers about 4 medium cichlid pellets each (monthly)
remember, pellets take a while before you will see results, but keep it up and you will have a continuous, good growth rate with pitcher life.

Add only distilled water to the pitchers, you don't want to damage the bacterial soup with chlorine or chloramine.

just my humble opinion, ymmv
 
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  • #19
Based on size, I would feed those pitchers about 4 medium cichlid pellets each (monthly)
remember, pellets take a while before you will see results, but keep it up and you will have a continuous, good growth rate with pitcher life.

Add only distilled water to the pitchers, you don't want to damage the bacterial soup with chlorine or chloramine.

just my humble opinion, ymmv

Thank you, I will make a regular feeding regiment, can I use pellets from my Maxsea instead? I just have so much excess maxsea, and I prefer to use the betta pellets for my sundews. How long does it take for the beneficial bacteria to show up? The smallest pitcher sometimes looses all of its water between waterings, as it truly does not hold much water (despite looking in similar size to the other pitchers).
 
  • #20
The fist pellets break down over time with the help of bacteria.
I'm not a chemist but I believe the pellets you find in Maxsea are designed to dissolved immediately into directly usable (non urea) chemical nutrients. They are meant to be diluted in comparatively large amounts of water.
The symbiotic bacterial process is how Heliamphora are designed to work.

You can try them, but I would advise caution.

Av
 
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