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S. flava 'red tube'

is this variety of sar actually turn red? I've had it all season, and the plant is just a normal looking s. flava. full sun, rain water, outside, just fyi
 
Sounds like it is not correctly labelled.. they should be nice bright red. Can you post a picture?
 
Red tubes are sometimes always red, partially red, or a heavily veined version that is sometimes in Florida called "ornata". They are not ornata, but because no one else has studied the red tubes for variances in color forms within the group, they stuck it with the label ornata. Some red tubes will throw seed of plants that never turn red. Genetics at work! Instead, they vein up profusely. Some only partially redden up, a red flush over the plant, but not deep red, and others will be so red/purple, it hurts the eye to look at them. Sunlight, heat, and soil temperature play a large part in the coloration of many sarracenia, and the variation rubricorpora is no exception. However, not every seed thrown by this variety, will turn red. And, there are some things that can be done to help them to attain the color, and keep that coloration throughout the life of that plant. Always something new to learn!!
 
It's like colors in dog breeds.  A yellow lab or a chocolate lab or a black lab is still a lab and its offspring can be different colors.  The difference is the dog colors don't seem to blend.  I haven't seen labs that are halfway between yellow and chocolate, for example.

But S. flava varieties aren't so distinct.  I've never seen a workable distinction between ornata and rubricorpa, for example.  I assume some rubricorpas grown in too little light might look like ornatas.  And I have a S. flava that is all green except for a fine tip pen width line of red in the throat.  So it's much, much more like the all green maxima than like anything else.  But maxima seems to be defined as 100% green, so this isn't one.

I think some CP dealers germinate S. flava seed, let them grow a bit, and then divide them into red tubes, coppertops, ornatas, etc.  They might be siblings.
 
Bruce, the only red in the maxima is in the growing point. As you have said the rest is 100% green. I have studied the red tubes for some time, and the fact that some only go the heavily veined route, is confusing to some folks. I have spoken with Don Schnell on his assumption that the heavily veined plants in the red tube sites are ornatas, and he sees what I am trying to tell him. He wants me to do an experiment with a "true" ornata from North Carolina, and an "ornata" from Florida, do my soil heat, soil nutrient thing to see if some of the plants will redden up under other conditions, or if they redden up at all. The problem I am having is getting the North Carolina plant to use as the control subject. I have told Don that if the ornata's came into Florida on the feet of birds, then where in the heck are the rubricorpora's taken North on the feet of birds, in North Carolina. His theory is sound, but doesn't wash because nature works in all directions. If plants are carried in by birds, then they are carried out by birds. So where in North or South Carolina, are the rubricorpora's? They're are none, because that is not the case. The plants in Florida are not ornata, but to really show that, we need a DNA scan, and I don't have that kind of money!! Mike King and I have a friendly argument on that point as well. I still feel after all my study, that this is just a matter of genetics, not different plants.
 
Perhaps if it is migrating birds that brought the ornata South the same birds travel a different route North or at a time of the year when rubricorpora seed/pods are not available for them to bring North?

Anyway... MCR.. just label it S. flava then your set!

Here is a hmm should I say red redtube? For those that have nonred redtubes? hehe

This is earlier in the season. It is quite a bit darker now.
S. flava rubricorpora (got this from Australia.. go figure)
SflavaTPrubicorpora.jpg
 
I read from somewhere that they sometimes pale after repotting(ie, after you get oe) and won;t really color up until the next year. Full sun is a must, of course.

Joe
 
Both atropurpurea and rubricorpora will have some redness whatever the condition and they should be distinguishable from other flavas, with the exception of ornata which can look like a sun starved/repotted red tube.
After repotting it usually takes three years for the full colour to return but even a repotted atropurpurea will turn a pinkish tan colour, but still with green bits.
 
And then again, there are birds that fly all over the place and inhabit large areas of the coastal plain where our plants live, and cover thousands of miles in a season. It is hard to say without genetic testing, but my own experience with seed from the red tube site long ago, isolated from the group and cross pollinated, would throw seed all the way from heavily veined to blinding purple/red plants. Who knows for sure? I suppose, just as Schnell does, that my studies are sound, but without DNA scans and all that, it is still just supposition. I think both of our theories are good, but have their fill in the blank areas. Only DNA studies will help, I think. I do have some backing from a good source though. He has spent more years and man hours in the field than anyone, except Bob Hanrahan, and he was his partner for years. That would be Jim Miller, and we talk about this from time to time. The atropurps in Florida are introduced, too, and Jim knows the story on that one. He was there.
 
  • #10
Hi Alexis,
There is a way of getting varieties; rubricorpora and atropurpurea to colour up the same year and that is to repot in January. More than half the red tubes at my place were repotted this year.
 
  • #11
Really Mike? My atropurpurea was potted into a bigger pot in December, the roots weren't disturbed but more peat/perlite was filled in to fill the larger pot. It was reddish pink this year not the deep red
smile_h_32.gif
 
  • #12
Mike, Same here. I repotted at the same time, and the reds are just amazing. I always use Superthrive when I repot, do you use anything yourselves??
 
  • #13
I bet this would be the time to use Rob's(from Botaqnique-I always butcher his last name) tannic tea recipe. Would that not bring out the red quicker?


Joe
 
  • #14
For me its just straight peat and perlite mix coupled with very high sunlight levels..
Greenhouse,large,right,2000.jpg

sflavavarrubricorpora,f45,june2003b_jpeg.jpg
 
  • #15
the plants that I have look nothing like the pics posted. they start out red, and then just turn green. I received the plants as a trade over the winter, so maybe there is something in the ropotting/color theory. they plants get about 8 hours direct outside sun daily...
 
  • #16
My coppertop loses its color too. Newly matured pitchers are a deep bronze, especially at the beginning of the season. But the color fades as time passes and later pitchers don't color up as nicely.

I think (but am not positive) the best color is before the summer solstice, so I don't think it's strictly an issue of light intensity. And, because our summer temperatures pale against what southerners face on a consistent basis, I don't think my plants fade because of the heat. It could be a combination of environmental factors and physiological processes. Who knows, maybe they get so happy about being full of insects they forget to turn bronze.
 
  • #17
I do use Rob Saciloto's tannic tea recipe myself for plants that don't want to color up. It helps atropurp's and rubricorpora's redden beautifully. Rob's been at work with tannic recipes for some time, and is always taking soil samples. Some of his Florida "ornata's" reddened into rubricorpora's using this recipe. We are both suspicious of the ornata title in Florida.
 
  • #18
What exactly is this tannic tea recipe Bugweed? Does it make a difference since they are already in acidic peat?
 
  • #19
This was my S. flava rubricorpora 'Red Tube' a year or so ago. It is no longer red like that. I can't remember if this has been repotted or not. It is receiving less sun as a stupid pin oak is now shading my deck.
confused.gif
It sure WAS pretty...

sflavaredtubeRS.jpg


Anyone know how to kill a tree without leaving any evidence?
 
  • #20
My ornatas grow in the same tray system as the rubricorporas so I doubt the tannic tea method as the plants are side by side with the red tubes. They have always been stable.
 
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