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Dormancy help

Hi,
I have a S. leucophylla 'tarnok' that has been growing in a terrarium for about a year and a half now. It is about 14 -16 inches tall. I haven't been able to get to it because there were too many thing in front of the terrarium but now things have been rearranged so I can work in it. It gets full sun for about six hours and the temps range from 55 at night to around 85 in the day with 75-80% humidity.

My Question is, What is the best way I can bring this plant into dormancy this late in the season? Just bagging it up and sticking into the frig doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
Dan
 
I wouldnt try to put it onto dormancy this late in the winter..
its nearly Spring, and sarracenia should be just starting to come out of dormancy right now..

I would leave it alone until spring, then when its warm enough outside, (april-ish) take it out of the terrarium and put it in a pot, and let it grow all of this coming spring, summer and autumn outdoors.
then it should start to go dormant naturally in late summer/early autumn, and will be ready for an all-winter fridge dormancy next winter.
leave it outdoors all autumn until the temps start to fall below freezing..I put my plants in the fridge around Halloween.

it might not make it..skipping a whole year's dormancy is very risky, especially for an adult plant. it might be severely stressed right now.
then again, it could pull through fine!
depends on how healthy it is right now.
but its about your only option at this point.

Scot
 
If you plan to continue to grow you Sarr in the terrarium, there's really not a problem. Since you are in total control of all your conditions, the plant doesn't know that it's spring time outside!
smile_m_32.gif


Just shorten the day light hours and hold back on the water for the next few months to give your plant a rest.
Do you plan to grow this Sarr outside in summer? If so, when you bring your plant out of dormancy at the end of May (by making the daylight hours longer and watering more) try to slowly build up the daylight hours to match the natural photo period outdoors.
If you plan to grow year round in a terrarium, you can even give your 'Tarnok' super long days in "spring/summer" - but make the transition slowly when coming out of dormancy.
 
cool temps..
cool temps..
cool temps..

sorry to continously harp on this, but just cutting down on light isnt good enough..

Scot
 
Sorry to contradict you, Scot, but we have experienced otherwise. We live in sunny South Florida. The temps here are too mild for our Sarrs – we are too tropical. Last night, our low temp was 58 degrees F. Tonight we’re expecting a cold front and the low will be 53 degrees F.
When there were only a few dozen Sarrs in our collection, I used to put slushy ice water on them every night from Dec to Feb to force them into dormancy. When our collection expanded to thousands of Sarrs (yes, thousands!) a few years ago, it became impossible to pour icey water on all of our adult plants. My wife Michelle flat-out refused. We discussed many “alternative” growing methods with Sarracenia growers even farther south of us, who rarely see temps below 45-50, and they insisted that holding back on the water would be enough to make the plant stop growing. After a few years of doing this, we can safely say that it really works, -as long as the Sarr gets enough water to prevent permanent dormancy! Let ‘em go dry, but not for extended periods of time (many days) under full sun. Another concern for us in S. Florida is our long days. Our photo period here is longer than what the Sarrs are used to in nature. Even with our long days and mild winters, we have successfully forced thousands of plants into dormancy by cutting back the water. Our plants stop growing for a few months, and that’s really all the rest they need. Sure, they still have some pitchers and don’t die back totally (especially the hybrids), but they do stop growing and produce phyllodia until they bloom at the end of this month. If the temps in Dan’s terrarium are 55 at night - with the days being very short and less water, the ‘Tarnok’ will not be growing vigorously.
Dan, what have you done in the years past? – if you’ve had it for years?
 
Hey everyone, Thanks for your suggestions.

I've only been keeping CPs for about a year and a half and this was one of the first ones I had. So, as far as this plant is concerned I've never done anything with it. I planted it in the terrarium before I knew they needed to go dormant in the winter. There is sort of a mish/mash of other CPs in there with it, A bunch of unknown sundew hybrids a few nepenthes, a pot of heliamphora's and some utrics. Some potted some not. It is very damp in there, during the day the glass is so covered with condensation and you can't see into it.

Over the winter the only things to do much growing was the heliamphora's and sundews. This Sar grew long phyllodia over the winter but no pitchers and I don't think its grown much in the last month or two. Can this be considered a "sort of" dormancy? All my other Sars I left outside for the winter covered with peat.

Thanks again, Dan
 
Very possible that it went dormant. Trent is right, Scotty. In South America, growers down there have to do the same thing, and have been getting very good results. So cool temps are not always necessary, but learning new tricks is always a good idea. Any L.A. or San Diego growers have a similar story??
 
Trent,
you arent disagreeing with me!
because we arent talking about the same thing.. ;)
I consider 50's to be "cooler"!
most people growing CP's indoors in terrariums keep them at 70 degrees all winter..because the terrariums are kept in the same rooms as the humans..
most people's living rooms or bedrooms are not 55 degrees at night in the winter! thats the problem.

Sarracenia grow wild in Florida..Florida is perfectly capable of providing proper winter dormancy conditions..
most terariums are not! unless you do something to cool them down.
im not saying you need 35 degrees..but you need cooler than summer.
50's is fine. I agree with you there..
so we are BOTH right! ;)

a normal terrarium is not the same as outdoors in Florida in the winter..
I would bet the terrarium is far warmer.
most terrariums are kept at "summer conditions" all year long..for years on end.
if you can provide less light and cooler temps in the terrarium, then thats all well and good..but most of the time that isnt being done.

gotta have both cooler temps and less light..
winter in Florida has cooler temps and less light than summer in Florida..thats all sarrs need.

if your plants are in a terrarium in the living room under artificial light, then you have to provide both cooler temps and less light artificially..
or grow them outdoors..
Scot
 
Dan,
Your S. leuco 'Tarnok' possibly took a dormancy, like what Bugweed said. Spring would be a good time to make the transition to the outdoor growing space with your other Sarrs.
Scot is right, get it out of the terrarium.
As for where Sarrs grow in Florida, they don't grow south of Lake Okeechobee. The outside temperatures where we are located are more mild than Dan's terrarium!
smile_m_32.gif

Brrr, cold house.
 
  • #10
Bugweed,
Where are you located in California? Interesting note about the South American growers.
Have you noticed any problems with S. flava? We can't seem to prevent rhizome rot in mid/late summer here in South Florida. We suspect there may be fungus or bacteria here in our sub-tropical climate which do not live in the Fl panhandle where the soil may freeze during winter. We use systemic fungicide in the summer, but the fungicide isn't 100 percent, even when we switch types. Have you heard of similar problems with other warm climate growers? The problem is almost exclusively with S. flava and S. alata to a lesser degree.
 
  • #11
Hi, Trent. I am in Martinez, California (The San Fran Area) where sarrs grow big and PHAT!!!!! LOL! The weather here is perfect for outdoor growing of sarracenia. Late summer does bring us 101 to 108 degree heat, and has a tendency to dry out the hoods on the sarrs. Jim Miller (Tallahassee) lived in Sacramento for a few years where it is real dry. He used a cold water ionizer (I think) outdoors among his atropurp's, and they went nuts! I plan on trying that this summer too. As far as the root rot problem, that is usually a warm soil problem with minimal oxygen being drawn into the soil. One way one friend dealt with it was by allowing a warm water drip to drop on the pot (same temp as the soil) and allowing it to thouroughly drip straight through the pot and out the bottom. As it did this, oxygen was permeating the soil, being drawn down by the water drip. His root rot fungus, went away. Worth a shot. Trays for watering are ok, but a real bog with water constantly permeating the soil and running through and out (YAY!! Drainage!!) is the best. I am writing an article on building a working bog for the Carnivorous Plant Newsleter for the ICPS. (Barry Rice asked me to). I have a small bog garden that has had the same plants in it for 15 years, without a soil change. Water constantly running through the bog, drips through the bottom and into the base container. The dripping water adds oxygen to the water and recirculates it. Anyone out there that got a "Schnell's Ghost", or a "Marston Dwarf" from me, you now know where they are growing! The running water bog! Try that , Trent, and see if it helps alleviate soil fungus problems. Heck, maybe I should get the pieces and parts, and write that for the Forums. And take pictures. I don't know if anyone's interested though.
 
  • #12
Hi Bugweed,I an very interested in your bog.If you don't post it here could you send me a diagram of how it is setup?


Jerry
 
  • #13
Bugweed,
Thanks for the input. We don't use trays, infact, we grow things on the dry side. This seems to help prevent most rhizome/root rot, but those S. flavas are prone to it anyway - for us. Never thought of using more water to prevent rot, but MOVING water and aeration make sense. Thanks!
 
  • #14
Oh, by the way, we would also like to see pictures of your bog garden.
 
  • #15
Glad too! This spring I will attempt my first pics on this forum. I have never posted my plants pics before, and it will be a first for me.
 
  • #16
Hello! I have a Sarracenia leucophylla "Tarnok" and other Sarracenia plants. Now, here is the tthing, I live in Puerto Rico, in the middle of the Caribbean Sea, and all my Sarracenias have gone into dormancy naturally. I have them in my saran green-house that has only a top and no walls, so they are exposed to the weather. And what I think have made their dormancy a success is that I removed the water-tray, and though I water them everyday, the water is not kept in the pot because of the drainage holes. So maybe, like some of you have said less water makes them get dormant.

But another thing that has happned is that since the sun-light hours are less and the sun is inclined in the horizon in winter, this has helped them in their dormancy. To be specific, the place where I have my Sarracenias is against the nothern wall of my house, so this causes that the southern winter direct sun-light is none, during late fall and winter.

Summing up, I think that less water and less sun-light will make Sarracenias go into dormancy.

Now, since sun-light is increasing they are breaking their dormancy, so I will give them again their water trays.

Dan, I think your “Tarnok” have already gene into dormancy, with “full sun for about six hours and the temps range from 55 at night to around 85 in the day” that I think is enough to encourage dormancy, since I have here about 5 to 6 hours of indirect sun-light and temperatures in 50’s F by night and 70’s F by day, and mines have gone dormant. So you should be preparing to make an artificial spring in your terrarium. And then place it outdoors.

Trent, you say that there in Florida seems to be a fungus or bacteria that causes rot on the rhizomes of Sarracenias, do you have this problem very often? I have never had that problem with mines.
 
  • #17
Thanks, Jorge and everyone else!

I didn't know it got that cool in Puerto Rico.

I'm going to repot it soon and put it outside with the others as soon as it get up over freezing and stay that way for a while.

Thanks again
Dan
 
  • #18
We're not the only south Florida growers to experience the problem. It seems to especially go after S. flava during the late summer, when we have heavy rains. I think Bugweed has spurred some new thinking about how to approach the probem holistically. I believe there are some indigenous fungus and or bacteria that live in our subtropical climate that don't live in north Florida-perhaps because they are subjected to freezing temps. I don't want to give the impression that we get wiped out, it's just that every now and then some plants may succumb to it.
 
  • #19
Hello guys!
Dan: This cool temperatures are normal in the mountains of Puerto Rico, where is a sub-tropical region. But here in the coast, where is tropical, we did not know either that these temperatures can happen. It has ben the coldes winter in PR Known history. Good luck with your re-potting process.

Trent: Do not worry, I noticed that when you were talkning abouth this problem was not a rule, but the exception, but I was asking becuase since we are having a unusual cool winter, I guess that his summer will be strange also, so I want to be prepared in order to protect my plants against new, unknown situations.
 
  • #20
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Feb. 04 2005,5:25)]Any L.A. or San Diego growers have a similar story??
The S. Calif growers might chime in, but Leo Song grew tons of Sarracenia in the lath house at Cal State Fullerton, as did Bob Hanrahan a few miles away, with no problem in getting the plants to go dormant. I grew up in Fullerton and can remember many frosty mornings, with a rare snowfall every decade or so.
 
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