Why can't dormancy be 2 weeks?!?

[Baylorguy]

So I seriously know the answer to the subject line... but it has been hard getting really neat sarracenia plants when they are in dormancy... it is such a tease BUT the price is right.

For those of you that have been growing sarracenia for awhile now... is it normal for a fairly new sarracenia grower to worry that the plants look too brown while dormant or to wonder if they are ok? I am not used to this as my forte (if you can even call it that) is more in tropical species. Typically I know if a plant is ok by new growth, which makes it a tough judgment call when it comes to sarracenia.

I have them planted in a minibog with the typical peat and perlite mix in the back yard and so far this year we've had 1 hard freeze of 24 degrees. There should be plenty of root space since there is over 12 inches in depth of pure media. Other than this we only hit freezing a couple of other times. Since Sarracenia alata is native to Texas, it seems the plants should easily handle these temperatures.

So... keep soil moist, keep outside and let them do their thing... anything else I should be looking for? Typically how much spacing needs to be between species?

 

[gr8oz]

One of the biggest mistakes that most growers make during outdoor dormancy is keeping the media too wet. Remember, the plants aren't growing, so they don't need a constant intake of moisture, as they do the rest of the year. Just keep the soil barely moist. My plants grow throughout the autumn with consistent moisture, so that when the weather changes here, the media remains slightly damp throughout the winter. I never water after dormancy sets in.

In North Carolina, we have consistently damp weather during the fall and winter. In the Piedmont Regions of NC, where I am located, we rarely see snow--maybe once or twice a season--and it only lasts briefly. We do, however, get misty rain until spring. It's not a heavy rain and only seems to keep the ground moistened. I generally leave my sarracenia outdoors to participate in this and they do fine.

 

[seedjar]

One of the biggest mistakes that most growers make during outdoor dormancy is keeping the media too wet. Remember, the plants aren't growing, so they don't need a constant intake of moisture, as they do the rest of the year. Just keep the soil barely moist.

While I totally agree, I think your way of phrasing it is dangerously easy to misinterpret. When I think "barely moist," I think of the condition that houseplants like. Sarracenia and other North American temperates can handle that in cool temperatures, but one cold windstorm can result in fatal freezerburn. The guideline I stick to is leaving the bottom 1/4 to 1/8 of my pots standing in water. I usually use big pots for most of my Sarracenia, so I'll have a ten-inch-tall pot standing in one or two inches of water. That's enough that the roots can still get air, but there isn't a severe risk of drying if there's a hard freeze. With the rain around here, I usually resort either to using shallow trays or I siphon off the top half of the water every few days.
~Joe

 

[Baylorguy]

Thanks guys -

I have mine in a wood planter so I don't actually have standing water. Instead I top water whenever the media starts drying on the top. I stuck my finger about 2 inches below the surface today and it was still moist.

 

[gr8oz]

We are in agreement, Joe. I should have clarified that I also keep most of my plants in about an inch or so of water, no more, during the winter. Still, we get rain throughout the winter here, often followed by sub-freezing temperatures. The plants growing in the wild survive because most of that rain drains off. The key with cultivated plants is that the trays they stand in need to be much shallower than during the growing season, as you pointed out. The result for me is that the soil remains just moist.

 

[cp-connection]

I will punch Jack frost in the face. Hopefully that will facilitate an early spring.

 

[Baylorguy]

I was thinking more along the lines of a ninja round house kick to the face, but your idea is not too shabby

 

[SpyCspider]

eh...I had one small Sarracenia die already from being cold and wet in its outdoor minibog..the others look ok so far.

As for being from Texas, I'm sure we agree our state is easily the size of 5 smaller ones and climate in east Texas (where Alatas grow naturally) or even Houston can be vastly different than San Antonio... although recently, they've been very similar...wet, cold, and depressing.

 

[uphwiz]

how can you tell if its dead as they all look dead to me at this time of the year ,
mine look very sorry right now even down to the media surface , I dont give up till spring and know for sure they are dead, most of the time not i am in a much colder area than you guys so i give a little more protection,

,

. a little trouble but it keeps them from getting too much water i just check once a month add a little water if needed and keep them setting in 1 to 2 inches of water also , which stays frozen most of the time, ive not lost one sarr this way, only lost one , but that was in the summer , i let it dry out, bad bad bad ,me

 

[Baylorguy]

True, Texas has several different climates, but Houston and San Antonio are awfully close to east Texas in terms of climate. People in San Antonio always say it is dry, but that is a total joke. It is still very humid compared to say Amarillo.


So what do the experienced growers do when going out of town for about a week? I am still trying to figure out what to do. Since it is winter maybe I can get away with watering it very well when I leave and counting on the roots to stay moist?

Phil

eh...I had one small Sarracenia die already from being cold and wet in its outdoor minibog..the others look ok so far.

As for being from Texas, I'm sure we agree our state is easily the size of 5 smaller ones and climate in east Texas (where Alatas grow naturally) or even Houston can be vastly different than San Antonio... although recently, they've been very similar...wet, cold, and depressing.

 

[Ant]

You could place a tarp over them so that it is more humid underneath and preventing faster drying.

 

[seedjar]

So what do the experienced growers do when going out of town for about a week?

Uh... at the risk of sounding like a jerk, most experienced growers use trays and don't worry about it for absences as brief as a week. Honestly, once I get my plants into the appropriate trays for the season, I typically don't do a thing with them all winter until I get ready for repotting and such. They only need attention if there's some sort of accident, like branches getting blown down in a windstorm or critters tipping pots over. (Rarely happens these days, as I keep my outdoor plants screened in under chicken wire.)
If I didn't grow my plants in standing water, I'd have to check on them daily for five to six months out of the year - maybe more. Even with very tall pots and deep trays, at the peak of the summer heat I can't go more than two or three days between waterings. I've got to wonder how you make a wooden planter work in San Antonio summers. I'm not sure I could give a puppy that much attention.
~Joe

 

[Baylorguy]

Uh... at the risk of sounding like a jerk, most experienced growers use trays and don't worry about it for absences as brief as a week. Honestly, once I get my plants into the appropriate trays for the season, I typically don't do a thing with them all winter until I get ready for repotting and such. They only need attention if there's some sort of accident, like branches getting blown down in a windstorm or critters tipping pots over. (Rarely happens these days, as I keep my outdoor plants screened in under chicken wire.)
If I didn't grow my plants in standing water, I'd have to check on them daily for five to six months out of the year - maybe more. Even with very tall pots and deep trays, at the peak of the summer heat I can't go more than two or three days between waterings. I've got to wonder how you make a wooden planter work in San Antonio summers. I'm not sure I could give a puppy that much attention.
~Joe

Hi Joe -

You jerk. just kidding

My problem with the tray system has been finding one large enough for the wooden planter. It is not too wide but is definitely long. Plus my wife is worried about how it looks and doesn't want a weird looking tray You're right about San Antonio summers though... the highs get over 100 on a fairly regular basis. I suppose in this case I would top water daily, perhaps morning AND night. I think they should be fine on this system and I've heard of others growing their minibogs with just a consistent top water routine.

I thought of another option... Though it is hard water, I do have a sprinkler system that I could activate one day of the week while I am gone for maybe 5 minutes. I think it would be a stretch to say that one watering would really set my plants back. What do you think?

Phil

 

[seedjar]

Honestly, I'd just recommend getting rid of the wooden planter. It probably won't last long with bog conditions, anyways - certainly not if you start keeping it in a tray. For the time being, you'll be fine, but I'd look into finding a replacement before the heat really starts to pick up.
If appearance is a mitigating factor, start hunting antique and salvage shops for old sinks, basins or clawfoot tubs. (Maybe even toilets - I don't know what kind of sense of humor your wife has.) I once saw a miniature clawfoot tub that would've made a perfect bog container - I guess it was for a baby or something. There are also the sit-up tubs that are shaped kind of like chairs and are about half the length of your typical modern bathtub. One of those would be plenty of space for a modest bog planting, and the extra depth would mean less frequent watering. If you really wanted to go all-out on it, you could put a divider in between the high and low sections of the tub wall, and make a fountain/waterfall type thing in it. Just make sure that whatever you use has been sealed well; cover any cracks in the finish with an appropriate waterproofer of some sort.
Otherwise, you could always do something like a potted terrarium; remove the plants, pot them individually, then put small (but preferably tall) water trays inside the wooden planter and fill the gaps with LFS or whatever media you prefer - I would try a live Sphagnum topping but I imagine keeping live Sphagnum happy might be more of a challenge in your parts. You can cut PVC pipe to fit for trays that extend almost all the way up to the rim of the planter, and put a cap on one end. If you do it right, the pots won't be visible when placed in their trays. This has the added bonus of being very easy to maintain.
~Joe

 

[Baylorguy]

Thanks Joe -

All really good ideas. I don't know why I didn't think to put some sort of liner inside the planter... now that I am reading around I see most people with things such as barrel bogs have a liner inside and pvc pipe as you described going down to the bottom of the planter.

I would be ok with doing this, but my concern now is that I am disturbing the plants too much by removing them from the planter to find better conditions. What do you think? Should they be ok to replant since they are dormant?

 

[Clint]

I like to grow plants in pots in trays of water rather than bog-style. In the summer, I fill the trays (rubbermaid tubs) with RO water to submerge 1/4th of the height of the pots. I let it evaporate and when it's dry, I refill. If I was going to leave for a week and it was summer, since the summers here are very hot and have little rain, I'd pour enough water in the trays to submerge half the pot. I use half-gallon pots BTW. If you have a very large container (...like a rubbermaid tub lol) you can poke some holes in the bottom, add some garden cloth to the bottom (to keep the media from coming out of the holes) and make a drained bog-garden. I did that once with extra plants with great results, just be sure to top-water every few days. If I had all the time in the world and RO filters were much faster, I wouldn't use trays at all.

In the fall, once most of the pitchers are halfway dead and the plants look crappy, I cut off EVERYTHING down to the ground including phyllodia. I spray with a fungicide (just in case!) and take the plants out of their trays and forget about them until spring. In rains enough in the winter where I live so that I don't water the plants at all, the media dries up but still stays barely damp, enough to support a dormant rhizome and it's roots.

Sarracenia replant very well, go for it.

 

[seedjar]

Sarracenia replant very well, go for it.

Ditto - just what I would've said.
~Joe

 

[Baylorguy]

Alright guys, now I have a plan! Thanks Joe! Thanks Clint!

Until next time (trust me that won't be long lol)

 

[Baylorguy]

Thought I would post a pic of my mini bog. It is a BEAUTIFUL december day with a high in the 60s and sun. You can see that some of my plants still have healthy summer pitchers and others... well... they do not As a testament to the hardiness of Sarracenia this same planter was frozen solid with no protection or mulching earlier this month with a low of 22 and they bounced right back.

Left to right we have Sarracenia 'Leah Wilkerson', Sarracenia alata, Sarracenia readii 'Royal Ruby' Sarracenia flava, Sarracenia minor var. okefenokeensis, Sarracenia 'Cobras Nest', Sarracenia 'Dana's Delight' and Sarracenia leucophylla 'Tarnok' . Many more plants to come closer to spring