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Thread: The Woods Vivarium Build

  1. #9
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    Some big updates other then parasites and weight...

    Finals week ended and I got back from a long road trip out to Michigan to tour Josh's Frogs facility. Josh's Frogs will return to sponsor Frog Week and will also sponsor this enclosure The 240 Gallon Woods or "The Woods" for short. It was an amazing experience meeting Josh and Zach and all of the crew. It was a memorable experience and we had a lot of laughs and they showed me where all of my feeder insects come from. Nothing like actually seeing where the crickets, roaches, isopods and others are kept.

    They donated the Autumn Brilliance Ferns that will be added to the enclosure so I actually have them growing in a small critter keeper. I will have pictures and videos from the tour to follow on other media, but I just wanted to thank them for the awesome experience and the sponsorship of Frog Week 2020 and The Woods.

    I actually just agreed to a deal with a friend to become the personal photographer for the PA Woods and Forests Brand. I'm really excited to show you pictures from his work on here as we build The Woods. He's someone I believe is good enough to work for national geographic but he is not out of college yet so I'll have him for a while lol checkout the pictures above of the three toads to see his work!

    I found Pious! He looks chubby and I weighed him. He's like 63g which I'm not sure what he was earlier but I don't think he lost any weight. He slows down for the winter so he's less active. He wasn't happy with me picking him up but he forgave me. He's such a cute little toad because he's so particular. He will wipe his face off and run away from the sprayers when they most him. He also gave up creeping on Ace and trying to mate. So he will be monitored as time goes by. It's all good for him though.

    Navi I believe is overweight so I'm trying to cut her back. Wellsboro and Ace I'm trying to put more weight on them so I'm feeding reptiworms and waxworms both for their meal. The reptiworms are good as a main feeder and the waxworms are a fatty added part to the meal. Think steak and fries. The waxworms are the french fries.

    I am also looking to work on a native species tree frog and toad feeder pack and hopefully to submit it to Josh's Frogs. I am very excited for this opportunity and I will be running everything by my vet to make sure that she agrees with the kit for authenticity. Really excited and looking forward to this!

    Lastly I don't know if I said this but I am hoping in the spring to collect and breed grasshoppers for my toads. I'm not sure what species it depends on what we can catch the most of. I really like them and I find them fascinating. They aren't just going to be feeders I will take them out when I give presentations as well because they are a part of the PA ecosystem just as the toads are. I know they really aren't different from crickets if at all in nutrition but I just want to have them. More of a nostalgia thing for me. I'll still have Banded Crickets because I like them. They are far less aggressive then the domestic pet store crickets. So to add for nostalgia not only will there be native toads from PA but native grasshoppers as well. I have plans for possibly a few more natives to make an appearance with this build. No spoilers just yet. As for the Autumn Brilliance Ferns and English Ivy which aren't "native" that's true but the state has them as a naturalized species which means they are so abundant and so many people have them they are now an integrated part of the ecosystem. And my 3 toads (Ace, Pious, and Navi) all lived where these two plants were sold so there is a good chance they could have even hid in these plants in the wild!

    Many big things to come with The Woods and lots of beautiful pictures featuring these toads, plants, and now you know grasshoppers.

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  2. #10
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    Just wanted to give an update on the toads...

    Some bad news to report sadly. Ace tested positive for many parasites again and Pious her hopeful mate who also has lived with her likely has them too. They are going to have to forgo hibernation this year. Now my other pair Wellsboro and Navi are not even in the same enclosure together. Navi is soon to see the vet because she hasn't pooped since September before I found her. I have to get Navi tested, and then the goal is to test poop and see where Navi and Wellsboro are at before they move into quarantine together.

    The vet had recommended and I agree 100% to at the maximum, double up in quarantine. Instead of having all four toads live together they will not meet one another until hopefully they are 100% clean, and one by one enter into the hibernation enclosure. So they won't actually meet until the next spring. Keeping two pairs separate can decrease the amount of stress the toads have to deal with. The more toads there are the more competition there is.

    Ace, Pious, and Wellsboro lived together in 2018 before they were found to have parasites. So they know each other and Ace and Wellsboro have some type of aggression towards one another. They appear to still view each other as adversaries. So keeping the two "rival" toads in separate enclosures is to their benefit. The four toads will live together in an 8 foot long enclosure hopefully in 2021. While they may still have their problems with one another the hope is having such a large enclosure the toads will be able to spread out and especially Ace and Wellsboro will have less interaction. The 240 gallon is much more spacious then the 125 gallon. For now just a 20 gallon and 30 gallon long will be their home.

    I believe how this started is Ace my female toad just had a serious load of parasites for years, and it spread to the others. Until now we have not killed the cycles of the different parasites as well as we thought. I believe I have found a new strategy to eliminate these parasites.

    Before anybody says that these parasites are natural and they will never be free of these parasites; I just wanted to say my gray tree frogs who are all native caught and all tested positive for these parasites in 2019, and have been parasite free currently for many many months. They passed four spaced out fecal exams testing negative with zero parasites. So if my gray tree frogs were able to respond to my quarantine method now I am going to attempt doing this with my toads.

    I will update everyone as this whole situation moves forward, but for now my toads will be in quarantine for a long time.

    First picture is Ace (in food bowl) and Pious eating

    Second picture is Wellsboro on the left and Navi on the right.

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  3. #11
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    Finally a toad update!

    It's been almost a month since I updated you about the status of my toads. There is generally good news, but the toads I can say collectively of the different groups of animals I have are in last place for health. One toad has gone on to break a record for me, one toad is up and coming, and two I am watching closely.

    Pious is underappreciated and he has been showing us this since entering quarantine. Pious has been a calm and timid toad which is ironically a testament to his name. This time around he is that same toad, but he is also showcasing his voracious appetite and his agility stalking prey and eating pretty much any insect in his path. I really am enjoying seeing his active personality and I just wanted to make sure that I updated the toads storyline with the underappreciated toad. He is proving his value and forcing us to remember how special he is. He was not talked about as much because he would sleep for months. He's more then awake now.

    Ace is not doing as well. She's been on medication and along with Pious they tested positive just for the parasitic nematodes again. They had three different parasites last test so hopefully we are truly down to one. Ace is not eating as much right now and I'm making sure to monitor her closely. She has a vet appointment along with Navi in two weeks.

    Navi is swollen and we are monitoring her. She doesn't have any tests done so we are unsure what's wrong. She has a vet appointment soon. More info to come on Ace and Navi soon.

    I wanted to end this update with a high note. Wellsboro is the only toad to be parasite free for now. He has gone three months without them which appears to be great. He has one more test to confirm his health. It appears he is doing great so maybe this time around he truly is clean and free of parasites. Wellsboro has attained a record weight for me. I got a picture of Wellsboro on the scale in a proud stance that you can even see the golden reflection of the Golden Toad himself. He weighs 97 grams which is the heaviest male toad I have ever kept. There is optimism for Wellsboro to be the first healthy toad. Pious has some optimism as well with his active energy and seemingly good health. Ace and Navi are still to be monitored, but there is a bit of hope for them as well.

    Ace and Pious tested low for the nematodes, so the hope is the medication has killed more then we thought and soon within a few months the rest of the toads will follow Wellsboro and join the healthy animal list which has been growing slowly!

    Pictures:
    Two Wellsboro
    Pious with paper towels left and Navi right

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  4. #12
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    A positive progression...

    I felt it was necessary to post an update on the status of the toads because I last updated you guys with not so good news. This time I have good news. All four toads are doing better right now.

    Ace was the most concerning toad, but she has started eating and now she doesn't want to stop! She gained 14 grams since the last update. I am keeping a close eye on her and I'm thrilled she's responded to the medication. She has one more round to go which was due today, but I decided to hold off because she had a tough time with it the first go around. Hopefully spacing it out will let her add more weight and she can recover more internally. I am very excited to see her trending upward. She is the most voracious toad currently.

    Pious got the second round of the dewormer. He may be dewormed faster then Ace. He responded well to the first round and he's been eating well so I figured he's in good shape for round two. He is still doing great and I love his prissy attitude and behavior. He makes angry faces when he wants fed and he will face me to make sure I know. He also will make small distress calls when he's hungry and I found this out one day by watching him on the camera. He was just sitting around and I got the crickets out to feed the gray tree frogs and he came up to the front of the tank, put his front leg up touching the glass and started making the distress call. Then when I came over he stopped and just looked at me. What a funny toad!

    Wellsboro is still awaiting the hopefully last fecal test coming probably late March or so. If he is still negative he's the first toad healthy for the longest time. In April he could be 6 months parasite free! He is slow from the winter so he only eats a couple items every so often, but he's still gaining weight. Not too much to report on for Wellsboro because last update was his moment to shine. Hopefully he has another one being proven to be clean and free of the parasites.

    Navi has swollen up and decreased in swelling. It's looking like a rollercoaster ride. The vet visit is Tuesday so she will be patiently awaiting that. We will be doing some testing for her to see why she is swollen. Hopefully we get some answers and we stop completely the swelling. A poop sample would be nice too!

    All four toads have made progress since the last report and I'm hoping to keep the momentum going.

    Checkout these photos from this week!

    Ace is 114 grams in the picture

    Pious left and Navi right watch Ace begin eating.

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  5. #13
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    An update on the toads...

    It's been a while since I had an update for you guys about the toads and their battle with parasites and just their daily lives. Thankfully this update nobody is doing bad and everyone is doing slightly better.

    Ace was in rough shape because she had two parasites and was being heavily monitored for a possible prolapse. I made sure to consciously give her soft bodied feeders and she made it through the tough time without a prolapse. What a difference education and knowledge can make! A year ago back to January 2019 I didn't understand why or how she had prolapses, but through the vets help and through individually educating myself I learned why and how this happens. Not saying that it can't happen or won't again, but I've come a very long way.

    Another battle Ace had was a loss of weight. She was 118g before the treatments for parasites. She fell to 95g in 2 months of the treatments. Now she's somewhere between 121g-130g. She's rebounded and if I can get a stool sample hopefully we can find that she is healthy or close to it. She needs to be without parasites for a long time before we confirm she's good. I'll explain more of the aggressive treatment after the update on the toads.

    Pious has been doing great. He's eating and active. He's been gaining weight and he has such an interesting personality. So Pious is next to Ace and Navi so I was wondering if maybe he will prefer one female over the other. This has nothing to do with any wild information about these animals, just my specific toads. I found that he looks at Navi as a competitor because he looks in her tank and tries to eat her food. When he looks at Ace's tank he doesn't do that to her, but he does come over to look at her. I caught those two staring at each other through their tanks which was a cute moment. Pious has a sample going to the vet soon to be determined if he's got his first negative test.

    Wellsboro is actually the most watched right now because he's been refusing to eat for a while. He went from 97g to 93g over a couple months. I'm going to try roaches and see if maybe he just doesn't want crickets, but I think he might have parasites again. If he does it's the perfect time to catch them and treat so he can later on inherit the 300 gallon from day 1. I'll let you know more about him after the results of the sample are revealed.

    Navi finally has lost some weight. So I don't know how other then peeing because I haven't found poop from her still and she's in an enclosure without soil. So it's easy to see if there is poop. The vet wants her to soak more and have her on a diet, so that's where she's at. The soaking has worked and we are waiting for her to poop sometime to learn if she has parasites.

    The treatment plan is going to be aggressive. So regardless of if they test negative three times I'm not concerned about that as much. As soon as I have three straight negative tests then that toad will continue to be monitored. I am hoping to have negative tests as soon as possible until December 2020 then to hibernate the toads. So before I would get negative tests and let the toads go into the enclosure, but this time I'm holding them for almost an entire year in quarantine.

    If I have to hold them longer in quarantine then I will. So the goal is to go through different cycles before saying the toads are clean completely. I am seriously pulling out all the stops for this quarantine. It's sad, no fun, and I hate it, but if the toads never have to be in quarantine for parasites again then it's worth it. I'm tired of them getting deathly sick. Toads are hard to get clean because they live in the soil that the parasites continue to attack them. I'm hoping next year to really have the toads in their new home.

    The 300 gallon has been thought of numerous times. I've been planning it for over a year already and I can't wait to build it. Even though the toads will not live in the setup for a long time, I am excited for the plants, Isopods, and springtails that will call the enclosure home. Of course I'll look into other inhabitants invert wise. This enclosure even though I don't officially own it, I do have many devices and other things ready to go for it. The 300 gallon will have actual seasons in the setup. I don't want to reveal everything, but I know someone might wonder about this being a mixed species enclosure. I'm not saying that it is or is not. I will explain more about this in the next update.

    Pics
    1&2
    Ace left, Pious right

    Pic 3 Wellsboro

    Pic 4 Ace

    Pic 5 Wellsboro

    Pic 6 Pious

    Pic 7 Navi

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  6. #14
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    Check this update out...

    I do not have another update about the toads tonight. They are still doing great and we are awaiting the results to determine what's going on with Wellsboro and his eating strike.

    I thought it would be a great opportunity to discuss a couple of interesting points for anyone following this. I know I need to speak on the possibility of a mixed species enclosure as well because I promised.

    The Woods will not just be a story about one enclosure. I am working to designate an area for plant, feeder, and useful inverts, as well as a possible enclosure for offspring in the future. I am calling this "The Woods Nursery" or "The Woods IV." Which do you like better? This will feature my colony of isopods, grasshoppers, banded crickets, mealworms, and my plants I'll grow for use in the enclosure.

    The idea of having feeders at the house on tap sounds like a better idea especially thinking about global events like we are in currently. Mealworms aren't a great feeder, and they are not native, but they are so dang easy all I can think of is "why not?" Worst case scenario and an occasional feeders are great to have just in case. The banded crickets may retain their bin and will not be bred by me if I can successfully colonize native grasshoppers. The goal is to use them as a main feeder by next year. I'd have to catch a lot and not feed any off for a long time which I am planning. They could along with banded crickets be the main feeders if I get them rolling. If grasshoppers do not work I'm going to try the native field cricket.

    I am hoping to have a decent sized terrarium for the grasshoppers, but also have plants live with them like the ivy plant I'm going to try to grow in the 300 gallon. I want to have designated feeders like banded crickets and mealworms, and have other creatures that live in an ecosystem that I can tap into if I need a plant or to feed my animals.

    The terrarium for the grasshoppers I also want to try colonizing native isopods. The terrarium will be a grasshopper and isopod nursery. I will grow a couple of plants that can be explained as replacement plants if need be or if something happens. These plants will be away from the toads, so the toads do not pass parasites to the plants. This way I don't have to start all over again buying plants. I'm trying to make sure I have plants and cut the costs of having to start over. Of course with the super long quarantine for the toads I would hope they never have parasites again, but if they do at least I have plants I'd raise to add back into the enclosure.

    An additional enclosure will house native Millipedes and Snails that will live in the terrarium with the Gray tree frogs from another thread. I hope to produce enough of both species to be able to release the offspring back into the wild, or offer some up to people as a gift in addition with some plants.

    So to conclude with the inverts this is the overview:

    Feeders I'm keeping:
    Banded Crickets
    Mealworms

    Native inverts:
    Grasshoppers
    Isopods
    Millipedes (not feeder)
    Snails (not feeder)

    As for plants I will only speak of a couple because I have some really interesting ideas and I do not want to reveal the plans for some plants yet. The plants that will be living with the grasshoppers and non feeder inverts will be:

    Autumn Brilliance Ferns
    Dragon's Tail Ferns
    Periwinkle
    Pachysandra

    The brilliance fern is the hardiest and my go to native plant. Pachysandra always does well for me and I like the way it looks. Both of these plants will be grown for the Gray tree frogs and toads. If a fern or ivy dies I can uproot one from the nursery and quickly replace it. The Periwinkle is my hands down favorite plant. I am going to try it again now that I have more experience and knowledge of how to grow native plants. It has never survived long for me, but I'm hoping this is the time it will.

    I really enjoy periwinkle and it's a naturalized plant in the state. I remember at my grandparents house toads would hide in the periwinkle, so I'm hoping that this ivy thrives and the toads will enjoy it as much as me. I have big plans for this ivy. The Dragon's tail fern is another plant that dies quickly for me. I'm going to give it a try. It is a cool little hybrid fern that has the DNA of a native species fern. If successful it could be a really unique addition. I'm hoping for the best with these two plants. With more experience and understanding I'm hoping to be successful this time around. I have a couple of other plants, but I'm withholding that information until later this year for some.

    My 30 gallon tank and a terrarium will hold most of the plants and the native inverts. I will have 5-7 possible enclosures that will become The Woods IV. Each are important in their own way. Replacement plants, food, or an invert that will benefit the ecosystem of the two native enclosures.

    The offspring enclosure I am planning will hold the offspring of the animals that will live in The Woods. While this is hypothetical, I am planning out what will live in this setup and how many offspring it can support. If something happens to the parents, or at least to preserve the parents legacy, the offspring will have the potential to someday live in The 300 gallon tank where their parents did.

    As for a mixed species enclosure; I believe the roads will be in quarantine and hibernation and possibly another quarantine if they emerge with parasites. So the toads aren't seeing anyone else anytime soon. If I were to keep another species I'd try to raise it from a baby and quarantine it as well for a long time. A baby would also take at least 1-2 years to get big enough to live with the toads, so if another animal lives with the toads it will be a while for health and safety reasons for both parties.

    I'll finish this section giving a list of potential animals I've been considering, looking at, or have previously looked at and opted out of but still wanted to include to make you wonder.

    Northern Leopard Frogs
    Wood Frogs
    DeKay's Brown Snakes
    Redbelly Snakes
    Fowler's Toads
    Eastern Spadefoot Toads
    Five Lined Skinks

    These are animals I once considered, am considering, or have chosen not to but added them anyways for a longer list. I am considering the possibility, but nothing is set in stone yet. By the way I'm not saying that all of these animals can live with toads or for someone to try keeping them together. I'm just explaining the animals I've researched and thought of. I discourage anyone from trying this because I am going to have a 300 gallon tank so I'll have enough space as long as I plan my personal requirements for the animals responsibly.

    So there you have it. I am trying to build a nursery for my plants, inverts, and hypothetical offspring. I'm trying to colonize 4 native inverts and want to use two in enclosures as feeders and ecosystem managers (isopods.) I'm attempting to go back to two of the first plants I used and hope to make it work. I'm still keeping secrets for a project that's over a year away. I'm considering a second species after a long quarantine to raise from a baby to then raise on its own for a year or two. My hands are full with projects between the 4 big enclosures, maintaining everything in the gray tree frogs thread (bee keeping, gardening, terrarium keeping), going out looking for wildlife to film for Frog Week, doing business things for the brand, work, school, personal life, and now trying to create a nursery. I'm crazy. I will explain two big details next time along with the results of Pious and Wellsboro's poop tests.


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  7. #15

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    Super interesting! Love the photos of your toads!

  8. #16
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    A much needed update on the toads...

    On the agenda for tonight's discussion

    1) how the toads are doing
    2) the new plans with plants and soil
    3) special reveal of a new member to "The Woods" group


    Before I go in depth I just wanted to apologize for my absence from social media. I am hard at work with summer classes and soon to begin working on my production of Frog Week, but that's a different update. I will be slower to update this because it's the slowest moving project out of the many I have. Now on with the update.

    1

    Ace is doing great. She tested negative for parasites in the May fecal exam. She's put on good weight. From 95g to now a lean 140g+. She has been thriving and I have loved interacting with her. She has never lost ferocity and boldness. She is ready to get back to a large home. Little does she know the plans I have to give her a home as close to her natural habitat as possible.

    Pious also tested negative for May and he's put on a steady weight. From 70g to a modest 75g. It's harder for males to put weight on because they naturally are smaller. He's eating well and his tank sits next to his future love partner Ace. They still sit next to each other frequently in their separate quarantine enclosures. Pious seems like he can't wait to have soil again. He's a true soil lover. I bet he will disappear under the soil when he gets it back.

    Wellsboro is looking like a monster of a toad. Weighing over 100g as a male toad in captivity the "Golden Toad" has shown his ferocious hunting skills and appears to be the first toad possibly completely healthy. Wellsboro tested negative for I believe 4 consecutive tests. He has soil unlike the other toads, but he's in a version of the yellow faze of quarantine. I can't wait to watch this toad is an 8foot enclosure because he will be one of the most exciting animals to document. Not to mention his rivalry for being the top toad in the hierarchy facing off with Ace.

    Navi finally has pooped and we found the reason for her inflation. She had parasites. Intestinal parasites. Navi is being treated and weighs around 83g which she's underweight for her size but we will fix that. She is hopefully going to reveal her true behavior once she is out of quarantine for the first time hopefully next year when she gets her new home. A potential to be paired with Wellsboro awaits her.


    2


    I have a new plan for plants and soil. I have made my decision with the soil for numerous reasons being better for burrowing for the toads and better for growing for the plants and better for living for the inverts. My ingredients will be as follows: Exo Terra Forest Moss, Exo Terra Plantation Soil, Zoo Med Creature Soil, Josh's Frogs ABG Mix, Charcoal, and Sphagnum Moss. Leaf litter will be spread throughout the enclosure to make some spots look actually like a forest or in this case woodland floor.

    The plants I am still not completely sold on the entire list but I do have some plants I will definitely use.
    Periwinkle, Autumn Brilliance Fern, Pachysandra, Scallions, Organic Mushrooms, Glow Mushrooms, Spring Hyacinths, Daffodils, Cranberry, Native Violet. These plants are going to be attempted for the upcoming enclosure. I'm really excited to try spring flowers and vegetables. Scallions and Cranberries grow native in the woods and forests of Pennsylvania. Periwinkle, Pachysandra, and the spring flowers are naturalized into many woods and forests of the state. I am very excited to work with the first native plant from my woods. The native violet. This plant is simple and maybe not appealing to you but it's beautiful white flowers growing near vernal pools and on mountains drew me to the flower. I'm hoping it continues to thrive in my terrarium quarantine. This could be one of the coolest additions to my setup.


    3


    The special reveal is very long in the making. It's not a reptile. It's not a mammal. It's not a carnivore. It's a snail. A giant native snail. This might not be the most exciting reveal or the creature you hoped for, but it has so many positive areas. Not only will it avoid competition in eating with the toads, but it can be found living beside them all over their overlapping range. The snail has a common name. It is called the Tooth Globed Snail. The true ecosystem I'm trying to replicate is an upland suburban woodland. Just in my woods I have seen the two share the mountain in the same spaces and I am hopeful to bring more attention to these snails and maybe to encourage people to care about them just like my mission for encouraging interest in frogs and toads. I have learned through my research of this species of snail is that it does not live in large groups. Only to mate and to share food time from time. These snails can get very large and live very long. I am happy to have a pair of them in my care right now. The good news is they are hermaphrodites so they can produce with another snail. So what do you think about the update on the toads, plants, and snails?

    Pictures order First 3 Wellsboro
    Next 2 Ace
    Next 1 Pious
    Next 1 Navi
    Next 4 Snails

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