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29 gallon

adnedarn

I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az
Admin
Okay, so I'm thinking about going to (as rampuppy says) the dark side... He sugested to me:
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Rampuppy @ Mar. 28)]
my first saltwater tank was a 29 gallon hex. you can do it.
equipment:

1 x 250 watt metal halide (you'll need to switch the bulb to a 10K or higher)
some power heads for flow
A middle of the line skimmer - bakpak 2 would be the little one, nice would be remora)

Live Rock

Is this the skimmer you are talking about?
remora skimmer
and power heads for flow.... Like the ones used on the uplift tubes in freshwater tanks on under gravel filtration systems??
 
Here are some things to think about.
Get some live rock. 1 pound per gallon minimum. It is your primary biological filtration system. Just like your undergravel filter. But don't use an undergravel filter. The powerheads are for circulation. Maxijet 800's or 1200's are a good choice.
I use an Excalibur HOB skimmer. The skimmer removes dissolved solids from your water. It is a must have item.
Get some PC or MH lighting, about 5 watts per gallon minimum. Corals need light for photosynthesis. They are animals, not plants, but have zooxanthellae, which are Any of various yellow-green algae that live symbiotically within the cells of other organisms, such as those of certain radiolarians and marine corals.
And remember, patience is the key. Nothing goes fast in a reef tank. It will take 6 months or longer before the tank stabilizes.
If you put fish in there, the old 1 inch of fish per gallon rule doesn't apply. In a 29 gal. you will only be able to have 2 or 3 small fish. Clownfish, royal gramma, basslet, 4 or 6 line wrasses are good choices. Do research on the fish you want before you buy them. Some fish like the tangs need swimming room and they need a 75 gal. or larger tank.
Be prepared to spend lots of $$$$$$ to set up and stock the tank.
 
ok... equipment list.

1 - Hydrometer - about 12$ at any pet store. you dip it in the water and it tells you how saline the water is.

2 - Heater (you probably allready have one of these for your fresh water tank. turn the knob down to about 76.

3 - Power Heads - now.. there are multiple ways to do this.

The first way is to get powersweep power heads. they have a bad reputation for not working right, but i have found with proper maintenance (remove thema and soak in muratic acid for 20 minutes every few months) that this isn't an issue. 3 of them, one on the back, one on each side would do it.

The second way is to use MaxiJets, time proven reliable power heads. you would want to buy a wave controller for them, they sell these in the form of a power strip that turn the power heads off and on at random intervals to simulate turbulence. there are some cool mods you can do to them as well to randomize the flow.

The Third Way, is to get one BIG power head, a Mag drive, maybe a 8 or 9 (powerful!!!) and get a SCWD. this is a wave maker that causes the output of the Mag Drive to go abck and forth, like wave action moving along the reef. (this is of course what we try to simulate with all these methods.)

the powerclear method will probably be the best way to start, and the cheapest as well. your gonna want to get the BIG ones.

man, sorry, it's a super busy night. I will have to continue this later.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]patience is the key. Nothing goes fast in a reef tank. It will take 6 months or longer before the tank stabilizes.

Man that is TRUTH.

I would reccomend not even adding fish for 6 months.

let it run with a 1" sand bed (your to small to have enough space for a DSB to work properly) and live rock for 6 months and you will have ton of micro-flora and fauna groing in the tank!
 
It's okay puppy... I know you're busy.

I think I like the sound of MaxiJets....
If so
Wave maker like this expensive one:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=RS3611
or something "cheesy" like this one:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=ES01690

Is there one of these 3 methods that could later be moved to a bigger tank, or they would all have to be upgraded?

You say at the end "the powerclear method will probably be the best way to start, and the cheapest as well. your gonna want to get the BIG ones." When I try to find this product it comes up with ultra violet filters for ponds...???


CNC thanks for the info as well, I'll be in no hurry to add fish... I may be more into it for the other things that live on rocks more, coral and stuff
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do you wait just as long before you add those?
As far as light goes (this topic started in the fresh water topic actually) I have a 250 watt MH lamp i was able to take out of my small green house since i've moved all my CPs to the big green house... This is where all of this started.
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LOL
 
Andy, sorry, I meant powersweep not clear.

as far as wavemakers, get the cheesy one.

Maxi-jets are fine for the little tank, but if you ever upgrade you will probably have to get more, or more powerful power heads. If you ever upgrade to a BIG tank, you will want to do a close loop, and that requires a whole new outlook cause your getting a REAL pump.
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(mine is 3200 GPH.)

The idea of not putting anything in your tank for 6 months allows a couple things:

1) allows the tank to mature and stabalize
2) allows all the little life forms that are larvae and spores develop and establish them. if you run a skimmer during this time, or have fish, crabs, shrimp, all will act as a 'predator' on the free floating larvae. not good, but not bad either.
 
Puppy, the powersweep heads you talk about would work in a bigger tank? Or i would need more/more powerfull ones just like the Maxi-jets?

You don't even run a skimmer durring those 6 months?

I was told with my tank being so small... That the sand could make it more difficult to manage, expecially as i am a newbie... What is your views on that? The same person (bucc from AW Hi bucc!! lol) was recomending I make a sump system... And as far as a skimmer system, he recomends an ASM MINI protien skimmer which utilize needle wheel technology... You know anything about that? views? I found This page on them, if you don't know about them maybe you could take a quick look... The mini is at the bottom of the page. 97 bucks (that sounds good!)

Thanks to everyone helping me through this.
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sorry if it seems I'm not trusting just one person but I like a few views on it. Hope that doesn't offend anyone.
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Andrew

EDIT: Also, I read that longer tanks are better for reef tanks than tall tanks... as far as ease of care goes... Would a 40 gallon (shorter and longer a tad bit deeper) be a better choice for me?
 
Oh God i have created a monster!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Puppy, the powersweep heads you talk about would work in a bigger tank? Or i would need more/more powerfull ones just like the Maxi-jets?

You will always have to up the size when you go to a larger tank. but the power sweeps are made for small/medium tanks, so they will eventually not do much for you.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You don't even run a skimmer durring those 6 months?
It's your choice. I wouldn't. I would just keep up with water changes. remember, in a reef tank, the live rock is the best filter you will have.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I was told with my tank being so small... That the sand could make it more difficult to manage, expecially as i am a newbie... What is your views on that? The same person (bucc from AW Hi bucc!! lol) was recomending I make a sump system... And as far as a skimmer system, he recomends an ASM MINI protien skimmer which utilize needle wheel technology... You know anything about that? views? I found This page on them, if you don't know about them maybe you could take a quick look... The mini is at the bottom of the page. 97 bucks (that sounds good!)
.

Sand- a DEEP sand bed would not only not work in a system as small as yours, but it would cause problems. however, I don't reccomend a DEEP sand bed, but a very shallow one.

1" or less. the reason being is that very beneficial organisms can live in that sand, and not to have it deprives you of their presence. is it harder? a little.

There is a great raging debate in the reef community. DSB (deep sand bed (nitrifies bacteria) or bare bottom. bare bottom is easier to clean, sand makes a more natural bio-tope, and if it is deep, creates a powerful biological filter. If someone is on the barebottom side of the fence they will always hate sand in all it's forms.

My reccomendation, stick with a 1" sandbed and stock it with nassarius snails and bristle worrms, copepods and other little goodies.

If the sand bed ever becomes a problem, simply siphon it out. it's so thin (1" or less) that it won't cause your tank to crash if you do.

Skimmer - ASM makes good skimmers, and needlewheel skimmers are the absolute frickin BEST. they are very very efficient! I didn't know ASM made one that small so thanks to bucc.

Sump. Sumps are awesome, and it would go a long way to making your tank more stable. but it requires an overflow box or a drilled tank and I was trying to keep your costs down.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Thanks to everyone helping me through this. sorry if it seems I'm not trusting just one person but I like a few views on it. Hope that doesn't offend anyone.
Andrew

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]EDIT: Also, I read that longer tanks are better for reef tanks than tall tanks... as far as ease of care goes... Would a 40 gallon (shorter and longer a tad bit deeper) be a better choice for me?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RamPuppy @ Mar. 30 2006,1:30)]Oh God i have created a monster!!
I only have 2 things to say:

1st- Remember the $1500.00 project you helped me design? computer topic Yes, I asked many quesitons and took much of your time. But it wasn't wasted! I did infact build the computer almost all of it off of your recomendations... So, at this point you have no reason to feel that I may just be wasting your time.
smile_m_32.gif


2nd-
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RamPuppy @ Mar. 28 2006,5:10)]perhaps it is time to come over to the dark side.
smile_n_32.gif

REEF IT UP ANDY! ditch the fresh water planted tank, buy yourself some liverock and go for it!
I'll totally hold your hand!

So like it or not... You're stuck with me untill we get this thing done!!! (and forever more...) bwahahahaaaa... lol
smile_n_32.gif


You didn't say wether a 40 gallon tank would really make any kind of difference... so I guess probably not. I was just thinking it'd be easier to fit a sump undter a 40 gallon tank... Cause there isn't much room under my 29 gal and i'm gonna have to have or try to make something specially for it.

Andrew
 
  • #10
I don't mind helping at all!
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Bigger is better in the reef world, bigger gets exponentially more expensive as well.
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if you can, go bigger, but the 40 gallon you PMed me about I would avoid, just because your inheriting whatever problems that reefkeeper that owned it had, and your going into it blind with out developing your reef husbandry skills.
 
  • #11
How big a tank could the 250 w. MH lamp cover? I guess that's the main question...
Cause I'm looking at buying a 60 gallon.
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  • #12
a 60 gallon, as long as it is a cube, would be perfect for a 250 watt bulb.

If your going to buy one, then get it reef ready, with a calfo if your going to have it custom made.

instead of having a traditional overflow ni the back that looks like an upended rectangle with teeth, a calfo runs the length of the back of the tank, and is like a lip for the water to overflow, it does a superior job at skimming crap off the surface.
 
  • #13
It wouldn't work on a 60 gallong normal, so that the main light would be in the middle then the ouside 1 ft on each side could be used for growing maybe some lower light somethign or other? (Like SPS and lps and sps and clams in the middle softies near the sides.) I never really cared for cube tanks I'm afraid... The height of them is a little threatening to me. Even on fresh water. I guess I just don't want to have ta ever reach the bottom. LOL. If it is only a 60 cube then perhaps I'll stick with somethign smaller.... But don't tell me a normal 60 is okay just cause you want me to get a bigger tank, if it won't work good.... it won't work. In which case my 29 would probly be fine since it is a 29 tall tank not a 29 short rectangle that I commonly saw at the stores today.
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didn't even know there was a tall version. haha

Edit: Also, the places around here have never herd of a "reef ready" tank OR a calfo... :shrug: I'm not looking at custom tanks anyway.. they're just typical tanks with stands.
 
  • #14
if you don't want a cube, then the only other shapes that would be acceptable would be a hex, or perhaps a 90 corner bow-front (looks like a pie slice from the top).

I would never tell you to do something that wasn't in your best interests.

oh, on the pump questions you were asking me.



mod-001.jpg

mod-004.jpg

imp-004.jpg



these are modifications to maxijets that seriously iprove their output in both quantity and quality. I haven't been able to find a place to buy them yet though.
 
  • #15
Oh. Did you see that? I htink all my drive has just driven out the window.
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Would a 10 gallon sump be good enough? or is that so small it's worthless?
 
  • #16
a 10 gallon sump on a 30 gallon tank, that's 1/3rd the volume and nothing to sneeze at.

Even better, would be a 10 gallon sump and a 10 gallon refugium.

no, it's not so small it's worthless.
 
  • #17
Wouldn't that take a 20 gallon tank? This refugium thing i see is always a part of the sump system....???
 
  • #18
no, there is such thing as a detatched refugium... there are so many refugium methodologies infact it can give one a headache.

simply:

Refugium in Sump (Self explanatory)
Detatched refugium (still in stand or other remote location, water is pumped back into tank)
Gravity Fed Refugium - best.

Gravity Fed Refugiums are over the tank, whether in another room, the floor above the tank, a shelf, or hidden in the canopy, as long as water is pumped INTO the refugium and drains out by gravity, it's a winner.

(Because neat little creatures don't go through an impeller head before getting in your tank.)

Different types of refugium:

Pod producing - usually coarse media w/ lots of live rock rubble.
Chetomaphora - great algae that out competes other algaes for nutrients - living filter - and does great at producing pods two. (you can do a mixture of the two)
Cryptic Refugium (same as pod but no lights)
Mangrove - not very effective but very cool.
Mud bed - highly effective at denitrification - but media is expensive.

there are more.. but I just got a call.
 
  • #19
So Andy, did you ever swallow the pill and see what lays down the rabbit hole?
 
  • #20
OOOh! I LOVE saltwater! It's a hell of a low easier than freshwater planted, for me at least. It's very expensive, but well worth it!

I love the remora over the bakpak. I had a turbofloater 1000 that I really liked (especially if you pump air into the needle wheel). If you want to get a 60 long, get a MH for each 2 feet. I take that back, don't get a 60 long. Get a 90 because it has the same footprint as a 75. Or go with PC lighting. I had 440 of VHO over my 75 and it was enough for LPS and softies, but not SPS. Don't skimp on the skimmer or lighting. If you have to save to get the best, then save instead of buying what you can afford at the moment.

And don't take the petstore's advice and buy that 150 dollars Seaclone :( And don't get a wet/dry if you're going to have a reef!
 
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